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Rage in the Cage: Hillarious!

I think the reason you hear more horror stories out of rages is, that is the most popular head today. Just imagine if we all shot some fixed blade head, and then you would hear horror stories about it.

I love the rage broadhead, but with it comes some responsibility. You must check your rubber bands, you must make sure your blades are locked EVERYTIME you knock your arrow. You must place the broadhead and arrow in an area that is a fatal shot to the animal (I think this is 85% of the complaints, but it's always the heads fault).

If you don't want to take a second when getting your equipment ready to do this, then rage's are NOT for you.

I agree Brian, good point about being responsible. I have been using the rage for 3 years with great success, but like you always check to ensure they are in good working condition (i.e. rubber band intact, blades closed, blades sharp, etc.) :way:
 
I had an arrow bounce out of a big tom about 10 years ago … it was the craziest thing. I was using one of the larger Rocket expendable’s at the time. The tom was at maybe 15 yards and quartering away when I shot. I believe I hit the wing bone … anyway at the shot the arrow bounced straight back about 3 yards. The Tom didn’t fly off he ran a few steps, stopped and looked back if to say, “IS THAT ALL YOU GOT” :grin:

After inspecting the arrow I of course didn’t get any penetration past the very tip of the head, which led me to believe this would have happened with almost any broadhead.
 
nannyslayer said:
I think the reason you hear more horror stories out of rages is, that is the most popular head today. Just imagine if we all shot some fixed blade head, and then you would hear horror stories about it.

I love the rage broadhead, but with it comes some responsibility. You must check your rubber bands, you must make sure your blades are locked EVERYTIME you knock your arrow. You must place the broadhead and arrow in an area that is a fatal shot to the animal (I think this is 85% of the complaints, but it's always the heads fault).

If you don't want to take a second when getting your equipment ready to do this, then rage's are NOT for you.

Right on the $$$$$$$
 
i just want to say that threads like this are another reason i continue to log in to iowawhitetail...lots of good points and advice i never would have thought of. i know i haven't posted a lot in the last couple years, but in "lurking" i have learned a lot from threads like this one. thanks guys!
btw...i love rage and haven't had a problem yet in 4-5 years.
 
I agree with Brian on this one.

Quick story.

I used to frequent the local archery shop back in Michigan when I was younger. I had a couple of buddys that worked there and we were always amused at some of the things that we saw. A classic was always, the day before season some guys would come in and say "I need an arrow for bowseason". 1 arrow :D I kid you not. We saw this a bunch of time and always got a good laugh. We also always saw guys come in right before season and want something done to their bow as they blew the cobwebs off. :thrwrck:

My point is, some of these same people are the ones that buy the rage or whatever the product is because they saw it on TV and Michael Wafflehouse was endorsing them blah blah blah, and than they go out and proceed to show off their bowhunting skills by shooting at a deer quartering towards them and wonder why it ran off with their new arrow. Then they come back to the archery shop and say " them broadheads suck cuz I didn't get my buck". You get the picture. It happens all the time, and when any product is advertised like the rage is it is bound to be purchased and used by people who really shouldn't be using it . Look at the idiots that sued scent lok because it doesn't work 100% of the time and they still got winded. WELL FRICKEN DUH is all I have to say. What ever happened to people taking responsibility for their own actions and mistakes? Wow I got off track there :grin:
 
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I have friends that are not fly by night bowhunters that have had problems with the rage.

Everyone wants equipment that they are confident in.
 
I have friends that are not fly by night bowhunters that have had problems with the rage.

Everyone wants equipment that they are confident in.


I agree Coot, but I know a lot of guys that are die hard archers and they have had problems with alot of different equipment, so I don't see your point I guess.

I have had a few issues with some of my bows over the years, but by no means would I say they were junk and didn't perform.

All of the good equipment on the market is capable of a malfunction now and than, we all know that.
 
If you don like'em don't buy the d@mn thing! I use them they work great for me. I can see some mistake that it could make but 90% is hunter error! It's all in shot placement.

arrow flinger
 
I have no direct experience with Rage broadheads, so no comments about them specifically. I have stuck, get it :D, with fixed head broadheads and have always been satisfied with their performance so no expandable horror stories from me. To me, expandable heads are just one more variable to deal with, so I don't.

I have though watched an arrow "bounce" off a turkey though two different times. Both were long enough ago that I can't recall every detail, but I know both were fixed heads since I have never shot anything other than that. I am pretty sure one incident was a Zwickey head though FWIW, and I am a fan of Zwickeys.

Hit that big wing bone just right and I don't think it matters much what style of broadhead you are using, you may very well see a "bounce" back.
 
I think the reason you hear more horror stories out of rages is, that is the most popular head today. Just imagine if we all shot some fixed blade head, and then you would hear horror stories about it.

I love the rage broadhead, but with it comes some responsibility. You must check your rubber bands, you must make sure your blades are locked EVERYTIME you knock your arrow. You must place the broadhead and arrow in an area that is a fatal shot to the animal (I think this is 85% of the complaints, but it's always the heads fault).

If you don't want to take a second when getting your equipment ready to do this, then rage's are NOT for you.

You hit the nail on the head there.

Dedgeez if the blades open in flight you will know it. Looks like the arrow is gonna turn around and come back at you.:D
 
Everyone wants equipment that they are confident in.

Great point here for sure. I lost 3 bucks using Muzzy's lost my confidence. Do I think they are bad, not at all, my good friend has shot many deer including a 170" and 190" monsters with them
Another friend lost three deer last year including a 160" plus buck, he sold his new Z7, said it had to be the bow......... You all know that isn't the case, but he lost his confidence in it.
 
Yep, just trying to learn a bit. I understand that KE disapates, but would this not also add to the momentum?....

....extra weight adds to the KE which will help to increase the momentum? .

The affect an arrow and what it weighs has far too many variables involved but it is always interesting to discuss :way:

If two arrows, have the same KE, they may different momentums and vice versa. KE is essentially a measure of mass and velocity squared...Momentum is simply velocity x mass. In saying that, one must realize that a 'heavier' object will carry its weight FURTHER downrange than a lighter one, if all variables are the same.

However, there is a tipping point where one, through common sense, realizes that a raquetball ball throw at my face at 100 mph will hurt less than a baseball at 100 mph. However, a small diameter object CAN have a better ability to penetrate than a big one, due to friction etc.

In summary, momentum has a direction characteristic, while KE does not. Momentum will push through an object, KE will get it there. They are one and the same...but different.

  1. Momentum has a direction aspect to it
  2. KE dissipates once it CONTACTS an object-has no direction component
  3. KE and Momentum, in regards to bowhunting are nice to discuss, but common sense will dictate that we chose equipment that gives us a nice combo of both.
I would never shoot a 600 grain arrow at 120 FPS over a 400 grain arrow at 250 FPS. Trajectory. Regardless of what the data tells me.

Who cares if you penetarte the brisket further with a heavier arrow but fail to adjust for arrow drop-lost deer

who cares if you shoot a 330 FPS arrow into the guts at 50 yards when a guy shoting a recurve can hit the vitals at 20 with his 50# 500 grain shaft.



Apples to Apples...A heavier arrow would likely win out at 40+ yards, but bowhunters generally take most shots at close ranges (<25 yards)

I think its getting closer to the truth that today's equipment makes the penetration issue a pointess discussion-for whiteatils anyway.

If you have the choice, and can shoot a fairly solid trajectory out to 25 yards, pick the heavier shaft. Dont get caught up in 300 fps stuff.

Shoot a BH that you have confidence in and I agree 100%, lose a buck etc, you will lose confidence in that product, even though it may be the pilot not the airplane.

KE=mass x velocity^2/450240
Momentum = mass x velocity

Very rarely is the choice that one makes in his equipment truly alters those two values. But its nice to discuss and really become simportant on Cape Buffalo, Eland, Bison perhaps..... but not whitetails :)
 
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In summary, momentum has a direction characteristic, while KE does not. Momentum will push through an object, KE will get it there. They are one and the same...but different.

That is a good way to think about it I guess. Thanks for the input, like I said I like to learn....
 
The whole physics discussion is interesting but really when we are talking about KE vs. Momentum there really is no "vs." aspect to it. Both kinetic energy and momentum are resultant of motion / acceleration of a particle. Since both KE and momentum have the same variables in their equations, we are really talking about the same thing but different aspects of the motion of the same particle.

Newtons laws of motion in a nutshell state that momentum, energy, or angular momentum cannot be created or destroyed. That being said, KE and momentum push through an object in the same way. A comment was made that momentum wins at longer distances and that really isn't all that relevant. An object that slows down, in this case an arrow, it both looses kinetic energy and momentum. Granted since in the kinetic energy equation, the velocity component is squared, means that the value of kinetic energy dissipates at a faster rate than momentum does. However, they are both describing the energy of the same particle (arrow).

A rifle is a little easier to explain than a bow but I will try. When you shoot a rifle, the cartridge explodes, accelerating the projectile down the barrel. Force is a resultant of the acceleration of a particle and every force has the same force in an equal and opposite direction according to Newton. The opposite force that you feel, is the kick of the rifle. That force is the energy that is put into the bullet while the gasses expand and accelerate it down the barrel. At this point, the same kinetic energy and momentum that the bullet contains after it leaves the barrel has acted upon your body and the rifle. (This is why knockdown power is somewhat a misunderstood concept as in movies, people appear to be blown away by a large caliber weapon. The projectile or projectiles cannot impart more force to an object or person than the shooter has already taken in the recoil. This is merely dramatic action in the movies.)

Now to the collision of the bullet with an object. The collision between the bullet and the deer, target, etc... is the exact same concept. The KE and momentum that is transferred to the object is equal to the frictional forces and the inertial forces of the object that is in the way. So bone, tissue, and fluids need to move in order for the bullet / arrow to pass through an animal. This is a transfer of energy (KE and momentum) since these particles of bone, tissue, and fluid accelerate out of the way of the projectile, thus giving them their own motion and components of kinetic energy and momentum which is robbed from the projectile.


In bowhunting and archery, we look at the bow and arrow system. The energy you put into your bow when you draw it back is the total energy you have available. As many of you have probably experienced, shooting a heavier arrow makes your bow quieter and reduces the shock felt by your hand. This is because the bow can transfer more energy efficiently to a heavier arrow than a light one. When you shoot very light arrows, much of the energy is left in the limbs, cams, string, etc... (this is why 5 grains per lb. is as light as you can go because that energy has to go somewhere and it goes right into your cams and limbs and nearly simulates a dry fire) the shock you feel is the transfer of that energy to move the riser. The limbs and cams all have their own inertia (inertia is a particle's ability to resist motion FYI) and that inertia in the case of light arrows keeps the limbs and cams from accelerating as fast as the arrow does resulting in a lagging energy transfer.

In short, it is best to find the balance of the speed in which you are comfortable with the trajectory and the weight of your projectile which best suits your bow and arrow system.

I don't know what I just said... I blacked out. Hope it helps someone understand the concepts involved if you bother to read it. :) I need a beer. :drink1:
 
I've been using mechanicals for a LONG time. I've used Wasp Jakhammers, Grim Reapers, Piston Points, and tried a number of other heads. Rage's are amung the weakest designs, they have cut slots through the most critical area for strength.

IMO, you won't find a sharper head than an NAP. I don't work with them anymore (as a sponsor), but I've done enough testing on my own to know they have CRAZY sharp blades. Sharpness in your blades = a reduction in energy while going through an animal (better penetration), and far less likely to bend a blade because of reduced drag (due again to sharpness).

Yall can use what you want, but Rage is a marketing campaign that has done wonders for them! You can sell anything if you have enough marketing $$$$ to back it.
 
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