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Regs Dialogue with MDC Director

Going to copy an paste here rather than screen shot for readability sake.

To Director Jason Sumners

Mr. Sumners,

Congratulations on your recent appointment to Director of MDC.
I will lead by stating MDC does so many great things for conservation and outdoor opportunities throughout the state, though there are many, many conservationists and hunters are extremely troubled by MDC’s mis-management of the CWD and regulations. I am part of the mostly silent majority that believe it is time to formally voice our concerns over CWD mis-management & regulations.
As a conservationist and landowner in Randolph County, the addition of my farm to a “CWD Management Zone” has further prompted my address to you.
Whitetail Regulations

I am in the beginning stages of assembling a coalition of like-minded whitetail hunters and conservationists that are interested in promoting common sense regulation changes to deer seasons in MO.
There are two main objectives:
  1. Achieve a balanced age structure within the Missouri Whitetail Deer Herd
    1. How?
      1. Moving the November Firearms Any Deer Season out of the peak of the whitetail rut, (4th weekend of November or 1st weekend of December).
    2. Why?
      1. Biologically balance the age structure of bucks within the herd, while still providing ample opportunities for firearms any deer hunting
  1. Return the resource of the Whitetail Deer to the People of Missouri
    1. How?
      1. Limit Non-Resident hunters to a combined 1 buck harvest (archery and/or firearm).
      2. Increase Non-Resident permit prices to align with other midwestern states.
      3. Institute limited quantity non-resident permit sales via draw with a reasonable amount of permits granted within each region of MO.
      4. Common-Sense permit access for NR Landowners
    2. Why?
      1. Decrease hunter numbers on overcrowded public hunting areas statewide
      2. Increase quality hunting opportunities on public and private hunting areas statewide
      3. Increase new hunter recruitment and retention
      4. Increasing NR permit prices and quality opportunity would replace lost revenue from selling fewer NR permits.
Highlights
  1. A whitetail herd with a balanced age structure and access to high quality land is the #1 issue facing Missouri’s deer hunters.
    1. Balanced age structure is biologically healthier for the herd.
  2. Harvest numbers to maintain healthy population are equally attainable with a later firearms any deer season.
    1. Later firearms season achieves equally acceptable harvest numbers.
    2. Excellent buck harvesting opportunity with firearms and taking as many does as needed.
  1. Midwestern states such as IA, KS, IL & OH are regarded as better managed states that are HIGHLY sought after by hunters for more a balanced age structures & quality access.
    1. Later Firearms Season
    2. Limited quantities and Higher prices for Non-Resident Permits
  1. Hunters not targeting mature age class deer will always have the opportunity to do so, even more so because less people will be harvesting the youngest deer in the herd during a later firearms season.
  2. Revenue will increase with a higher quality deer herd. Limiting the QUANTITY of NR tags will increase the QUALITY of hunting by reducing pressure on private and public lands.
  3. We are lobbying for these initiatives with no $ to be gained, those fighting back against these improvements for MISSOURIANS are special interest “Deer Pimps” out for their own special interests
I hope to start a constructive dialogue with you and your commission team to come to a sensible solution for the concerns for the deer hunters and conservationists of the state.

His Reply:
Mr. Cater:

Thank you for reaching out to me to share your thoughts about deer hunting regulations and CWD management. I understand that you were able to visit with Jason Isabelle, the Department’s Cervid Program Supervisor, Wednesday evening. Below, please find my response to your e-mail; however, if you would like to continue that discussion with Jason, I would encourage you to reach out to him at Jason.Isabelle@mdc.mo.gov or 573-815-7901, ext. 2902. If after visiting with Jason more, you would like to further the conversation, please let me know.

The Department has always valued hunter input when making decisions about management of the state’s deer population. Through our management efforts, we must ensure the sustainability of the deer population and make decisions based on science; however, input from hunters has always played a large role in establishing hunting seasons and regulations. Missouri has nearly half a million deer hunters and hunter opinions can differ considerably depending on the topic. To help the Department better understand deer hunter opinions, we send surveys to a random sample of hunters each year. Because those that receive these surveys are selected at random, we can be assured that the responses we receive are as representative as possible. Last year, for example, the Department sent surveys to over 130,000 deer hunters to understand their opinions about the deer population and deer hunting seasons and regulations.

As you alluded to in your message, deer hunting seasons and regulations often differ considerably among states. These differences have typically been shaped by several factors such as the status of the deer population when hunting seasons were established, the professional opinions of deer biologists that established and shaped the seasons through time, and the opinions of deer hunters. Although there are some biological advantages to structuring a deer hunting season so that most hunting pressure occurs outside of peak rut, this is not necessary to achieve a sustainable population and there are numerous examples across the country, including in Missouri, where sustainable populations exist despite the primary firearms season occurring during the peak of the rut. In Missouri, despite having a primary firearms season that starts around the peak of the rut, data from research projects conducted here indicate that the vast majority of adult and yearling does breed annually and that fawning dates are fairly synchronous, both of which are indicators that harvest pressure during the rut is not adversely affecting growth potential of the population. As such, from a biological standpoint, we do not believe that the current timing of the primary firearms season is having detrimental effects on the health of Missouri’s whitetail population.
Outside of biological considerations, the Department structures the deer hunting season based in large part on the desires of hunters. As I mentioned previously, each year we survey thousands of deer hunters to obtain their input about the deer population, deer management, and our hunting regulations. On hunter surveys, we often ask about season timing preferences. We periodically ask deer hunters if they would be supportive of moving the November portion of firearms deer season later in the fall, of which most are currently opposed. More specifically, results of the last survey indicated that there were nearly three times as many hunters opposed to moving the November portion later in the fall than those that supported the timing change. We recognize that this portion timing does not satisfy the desires of all hunters, particularly those that would prefer an older buck age structure. However, our approach to developing deer hunting regulations is to make them biologically appropriate while being supported by most hunters.

There is no doubt that nonresident deer hunter numbers are increasing in Missouri. The Department values all Missouri deer hunters and strives to find the appropriate balance between the desires of resident and nonresident hunters for permit prices and allocation of hunting opportunities. Given the abundance of deer throughout Missouri, we have not felt that there has been a need to restrict the hunting opportunity of nonresident hunters by using a draw system. Despite the popularity and quality of deer hunting in Missouri, the vast majority of permits are acquired by residents each year. During most years, more than 90% of deer hunting permits are purchased by residents. We also recognize, however, that nonresident hunters are not evenly distributed in the state and that northern Missouri is among the most popular regions for nonresident hunters. Even though Missouri residents still comprise the vast majority of deer hunters in the state, we have been hearing from more Missouri residents that are concerned about the impacts of nonresident hunters on the quality of hunting and the effect on land access and hunting pressure. Although we value nonresident hunters and the contributions that they make to local economies when they travel here to hunt, we have always strived to balance those benefits with providing satisfactory opportunities for our resident hunters. Our 10-year Deer Management Plan is under revision this year and as part of the revision process, our staff will be evaluating the changes we’re seeing in nonresident deer hunter numbers to ensure that we maintain that balance.

Regarding CWD, it is not an understatement to say that the disease is one of the most significant wildlife challenges of our time. We are fortunate that relatively few deer in Missouri are affected by the disease at this time. However, we know from observing trends in other states that if efforts are not made to manage the disease, the number of deer that become infected with CWD can increase significantly. We do not want that to happen in Missouri, and we are committed to working with hunters and landowners to slow the spread of CWD to protect the deer population. If you are interested in additional information about CWD, I would encourage you to visit the Department’s website (mdc.mo.gov/CWD), the CWD Alliance (cwd-info.org), and the Mississippi State University Deer Ecology and Management Lab (msudeer.msstate.edu/chronic-wasting-disease.php).

Mr. Cater, I thank you again for taking the time to contact me and hope that the information we provided demonstrates the importance of hunter input in the deer regulation decision-making process and explains the serious threat that CWD poses to the deer population. As I mentioned previously, if you would like to continue the discussion with Jason Isabelle, I would encourage you to reach out to him. If after visiting with Jason more, you would like to further the conversation, please let me know.

Have a great weekend and good luck in the deer woods this fall,



Jason Sumners
 
Sounds like his response is very close to what I had expected and posted on your thread a year or so ago on this topic. In their eyes and many hunters’ eyes the MO system is not broken. Missouri DoC is not only looking for older age class and large racks. I prefer mature deer but the majority enjoy harvesting whatever buck they want, relatively easier in the rut. The “experience” for most hunters in MO that they enjoy is to hunt rutting bucks with a rifle. I wouldn’t mind the change to push back the gun season but for those hunters that don’t have access to managed land and food plots their hunting “experience” and satisfaction will go down with a later gun season. MO is meeting the wants of the majority of their deer hunters and still offers a reasonable chance at a mature deer occasionally. Could MO have a better age class, for sure and would result in bigger antlers, but the majority are satisfied with the current system IMO.
 
Sounds like his response is very close to what I had expected and posted on your thread a year or so ago on this topic. In their eyes and many hunters’ eyes the MO system is not broken. Missouri DoC is not only looking for older age class and large racks. I prefer mature deer but the majority enjoy harvesting whatever buck they want, relatively easier in the rut. The “experience” for most hunters in MO that they enjoy is to hunt rutting bucks with a rifle. I wouldn’t mind the change to push back the gun season but for those hunters that don’t have access to managed land and food plots their hunting “experience” and satisfaction will go down with a later gun season. MO is meeting the wants of the majority of their deer hunters and still offers a reasonable chance at a mature deer occasionally. Could MO have a better age class, for sure and would result in bigger antlers, but the majority are satisfied with the current system IMO.
I would argue that statewide that could be true. You dissect the survey into management regions of the state and I think it would tell a far different tale.
MDC is flushed with cash, they need to send these surveys to EVERY deer hunter via email/physical mail, blast through the MO Hunting app etc to get a true picture of the feelings of hunters. I know like 2 people that are opposed to moving the season to December. I keep in touch with hundreds of hunters here... IDK i just dont see how it could be overwhelming....
I am optomistic that the surveys have shown concern for over pressured public land and loosing private access via non-resident competition. They said a NR draw would be a consideration listed in the new 10 year plan they are rolling out.
Here is the MO area Map that I think needs to be considered to dissect survey data into those regions.
MDC Regional Map.JPG
 
As someone born and raised in Northern MO, I'm fully aligned to the same exact concerns you outlined in the email to MDC...well said. I'm now an Iowa resident as of this year...in large part due to MO's poor deer mgmt practices.

The unfortunate reality from MDC's response is that growing mature bucks is not a priority for them. I've filled out numerous surveys from MDC and always write my opinion in to move rifle season out of the rut. This tells me that subdividing MO into regions as mentioned above would be useful as I know a lot of N. Mo residents would prefer MDC to prioritize mature class deer. However, there are a lot of single wknd hunters who don't care and likely make up a noticeable portion of survey responses to sway it in the opposite direction. This would also help with NR tags to not put so much pressure on N. MO to have NR limitations by region.

Happy to know hunters are enjoying the season, but sad to think regulations will not change anytime soon based on MDCs approach. We have great habitat to be a leading state for big whitetails...but seems our best path forward is by forming coops with our neighbors to grow mature deer.

MO's approach of sniping a ton of deer out of season doesn't seem to be working. I think CWD is the biggest existential threat to our deer herd, but killing them all isn't the answer either. Direct the funding towards more R&D.

I'll end by saying I can appreciate MDCs job is a tough one to appease us all.
 
I have plans to continue a dialogue with Cervid Program Supervisor, Jason Isabelle.
I am hope to encourage them to conduct surveys by regions/zones etc.....
 
I question whether he really understood what you were getting at by moving rifle out of rut. His response focuses only on population and harvest numbers, ignoring age structure completely. Or maybe it was intentional.
 
I question whether he really understood what you were getting at by moving rifle out of rut. His response focuses only on population and harvest numbers, ignoring age structure completely. Or maybe it was intentional.

MO has never been high on age structure talks. The majority of deer hunters in MO would like to shoot a big buck, but don't want to be hindered in the pursuit of such.

If they really wanted bigger deer, they would have voted for a later season instead of apr's....MO hunters like their rifles during the rut.
 
  1. Return the resource of the Whitetail Deer to the People of Missouri
    1. How?
      1. Limit Non-Resident hunters to a combined 1 buck harvest (archery and/or firearm)
This is the first change in regulations that no one in MO would balk at that would be a step in the right direction.

I could see lease prices going down and some people dropping out because of it while also increasing age structure.
 
I question whether he really understood what you were getting at by moving rifle out of rut. His response focuses only on population and harvest numbers, ignoring age structure completely. Or maybe it was intentional.
Sounds like a battle that we have in Minnesota. They just don’t want to take on the rifle guys and move the season back!

You have some good points, I think the NR to one buck is fine. I hope they don’t go to a draw/3 yr wait like Iowa. Thats a unique challenge in itself. I doubt Missouri would do that .
 
Sounds like a battle that we have in Minnesota. They just don’t want to take on the rifle guys and move the season back!

You have some good points, I think the NR to one buck is fine. I hope they don’t go to a draw/3 yr wait like Iowa. Thats a unique challenge in itself. I doubt Missouri would do that .
We are shooting for NR draw in MO. Badly needed. Residents are loosing quailty access left and right.
 
A NR draw is certainly not out of the question. Nebraska moved all NR tags to a draw this year, previously it had only been mule deer units and now it's all deer tags. Most of the whitetail tags did not require a point and some had leftover tags that were then OTC but now that they've capped NR tags and moved everything to a draw I would imagine that will change in the near future. And MO has much better whitetail opportunities than NE does.
 
FWIW, I asked a few follow up questions to Joe's original email, namely if the survey results had changed over time of moving the rifle season outside the rut. There has been some improvement, but it does still appear we are in the vast minority (15% historically to now 20%).

This does lend some clarity on why MDC is a "best chance for all" state, as that appears to align with what the masses want (unfortunately).

However, it seems like they are using "biology" fairly liberally here to defend their various positions..


Dan,

Each year, we send surveys to up to 25% of Missouri deer hunters to obtain data (e.g., number of hunting trips) and to get their opinions on a wide range of topics (e.g., satisfaction with deer numbers, deer population trends, potential regulation changes). Hunters are selected at random to receive these surveys so we can be assured that the responses we receive are as representative of all Missouri deer hunters as possible.

On these surveys, there are some questions that get asked annually because we need the information each year (e.g., perceptions of deer numbers, number of hunting trips) to assess the status of the deer population or to provide input for our deer population model. There are other questions that we ask periodically (e.g., every 3-5 years) to assess hunter opinions about specific topics in which opinions do not change considerably on an annual basis. Shifting the timing of the November portion would be an example of one such topic.

Over time, we have seen slightly more hunters interested in shifting the timing of the November portion later in the fall. When we asked this question on the post-season deer hunter survey about a decade ago, about 15% of hunters agreed that the November portion should be moved later in the season (about two-thirds disagreed and the remainder had no opinion). When we asked this question on the survey most recently, about 20% of hunters were supportive of moving the November portion later and just under 60% were opposed; the remainder were neither supportive nor opposed. So, although we’ve seen a slight increase in the percentage of hunters interested in shifting timing of the November portion, there are still considerably more hunters that prefer to maintain its current timing.

As Director Sumners indicated, we recognize that the timing of the November portion does not satisfy the desires of all hunters, particularly those that prefer to have a deer population with more mature bucks. However, our approach to developing deer hunting regulations is to make them biologically sound while being supported by most hunters. Missouri has nearly half a million deer hunters and opinions can differ widely depending on the topic (timing of the November portion, for example). Given the wide range of opinions and preferences, our post-season deer hunter surveys, which are sent to a random sample of hunters, are critically important to informing us of which seasons and regulations are likely to satisfy the majority of hunters.

Dan, thank you for reaching out with your questions. Please let me know if you have any additional questions or if I could be of further assistance.

Best regards,

Jason L. Isabelle
Cervid Program Supervisor, Certified Wildlife Biologist®
Missouri Department of Conservation
Central Regional Office and Conservation Research Center
3500 East Gans Road
Columbia, MO 65201

Phone: 573.815.7901, ext. 2902
Fax: 573.815.7902
Email:
Jason.Isabelle@mdc.mo.gov
 
The main question I'd like to see Jason address is..

IMO, it appears MDC is using CWD as a trojan horse to keep deer numbers down. I believe the special interest groups are encouraging and pushing the CWD fear mongering agenda as a way to reduce our populations.

Have a positive in your area and they start killing.. Not a good deal.

Thanks again to @deep woods goat hunter for his hard work on this, and holding them accountable to us hunters!
 
What is Missouri's process for rule changes? Does it have to go thru legislature like here in Iowa?
No, its independent from state legislature. MDC has a director and commission that makes final decision. I joined ConFedMO (Conservation Federation of Missouri) lifetime membership last week and put my application for big game committee etc. ConFedMo is the largest lobbying body that sends resolutions to Director and Commission for consideration.
I have a call scheduled next Friday with Cervid Program Supervisor Jason Isabelle.
 
A NR draw is certainly not out of the question. Nebraska moved all NR tags to a draw this year, previously it had only been mule deer units and now it's all deer tags. Most of the whitetail tags did not require a point and some had leftover tags that were then OTC but now that they've capped NR tags and moved everything to a draw I would imagine that will change in the near future. And MO has much better whitetail opportunities than NE does.
This was news to me. good to know.
 
As a follow up from @Bassattackr note Jason pulled these results for me from a 2020 , survey, which has become dated imho.
These are only from NE and NW regions of the state
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I am trying to come up with additional questions for my call with Jason. I currently have this....
  • Are you hearing input from any organized group of hunters affirming the current position of MO firearms season placement?
  • Prior to the 2020 Survey on moving Nov firearms season placement, what were the results of any previous surveys on the subject?
    • Is this the most recent survey on the timing of the season? Thoughts on surveying this question annually to track feedback?
Any additional thoughts or questions I should be asking would be appreciated. I was trying to think of things today but had a lot of real work to do and writers block....
 
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