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Regs Dialogue with MDC Director

Bassattackr said:
The main question I'd like to see Jason address is..

IMO, it appears MDC is using CWD as a trojan horse to keep deer numbers down. I believe the special interest groups are encouraging and pushing the CWD fear mongering agenda as a way to reduce our populations.

Have a positive in your area and they start killing.. Not a good deal.

Thanks again to @deep woods goat hunter for his hard work on this, and holding them accountable to us hunters!
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I attended the CWD meeting in Moberly last week. MAYBE i am naive, but I did not get that feeling at all. They have designated a 50 sq mile zone where they want to test 550 deer quote. I know this area incredibly well, very strong deer numbers and 550 deer is not many at all to sample. If the quota is filled by landowners/hunters in the zone, then no more supplemental/targeted shooting of deer will be needed after Jan 15th close of bow season.
This is the first time they have put landowners 100% in the drivers seat to meet the quota prior to targeted sampling season Jan15-Mar 15. I'll attach the notes from the meeting. They are also giving a processing voucher to people to go towards a locker processing the deer OR PAY THE HUNTER $75 if they self process!
 
Looks like they could interpret the survey as 40% are ok with a later season. I would say that only surveying 25% of the hunters isn’t a good representation anyway. Out of that 25%, how many respond and where are they located would be a good question.
 
deep woods goat hunter said:
I am trying to come up with additional questions for my call with Jason. I currently have this....
  • Are you hearing input from any organized group of hunters affirming the current position of MO firearms season placement?
  • Prior to the 2020 Survey on moving Nov firearms season placement, what were the results of any previous surveys on the subject?
    • Is this the most recent survey on the timing of the season? Thoughts on surveying this question annually to track feedback?
Any additional thoughts or questions I should be asking would be appreciated. I was trying to think of things today but had a lot of real work to do and writers block....
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I'd be curious to dig into any consideration they put on age structure aside from basing their regulations purely on survey input. For instance, MO's ranking in terms of B&C entries from 2005 - 2010 was 5th but more recent records indicate we've dropped to 7th. With interest noticeably increasing for hunters to travel to our neighboring states (KS, IA, IL, KY; and even NE), does that play a role in somehow trying to improve MO's reputation compared to our neighboring states who seem to be garnering a lot more positive attention for their regulations changes? i.e. IN went to 1 buck state I believe with positive impacts and little pushback.

May have been answered already, but I'd also be curious about what data they're seeing for public land access on a per hunter basis (aside from anecdotal survey evidence).
 
I would be curious on what they expect to accomplish thru CWD testing. State after state has failed to contain it. Most start and stop shooting them with sharpshooter and in the process piss everyone off. So frankly in re to testing I kinda wanna ask, what's the point
 
IowaBowHunter1983 said:
I would be curious on what they expect to accomplish thru CWD testing. State after state has failed to contain it. Most start and stop shooting them with sharpshooter and in the process piss everyone off. So frankly in re to testing I kinda wanna ask, what's the point
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Agree.

I had a neighbor that had a CWD positive (a few farms over), and were contacted by MDC. The additional "killing" was optional for the neighbor. I spoke with him directly.

MDC only gets forceful when they get "hot zones", or where several deer in that specific neighborhood test positive. Then they send in the killers.

My questions are more centered around (Added @deep woods goat hunter):

- Why are we shooting deer in the area at all? Who/what are we trying to save from CWD? Deer from a disease that's been around for 60+ years?

**Seeing as the disease has been discovered in the 1960s (and who knows how long present before that), deer populations seem to be holding fine, with or without CWD. People? No known cases of transmission into humans. Vehicle Collisions? Crop Damage? Now those ideas align with a few others..

- Is the strategy of going in and shooting deer working? (Statistically it is not). We all know how well "stopping the spread" worked.. CWD is now found in more areas, counties and states than before. Is this due to increased testing? Why not find other means to try and combat CWD? (Nutritional feeding, etc.).

**A lame scapegoat for MDC is "no feeding" as it congregates deer. Well.. What do deer do all year outside a few months a year? (Answer: Congregate and lick each other).

- What is the estimated population of deer carrying this disease at any point in time? 0.1% ?? ..So 99.9% of them are negative, and we are going to kill as many as possible (100%) of the healthy herd to see if we can kill a (0.1%) needle in a (99.9%) haystack? Is this 0.1% the natural amount of the herd that typically carries this ever-present disease anyway?

- Why not just let mother nature take its course? They say 100% fatality rate ...but so was the bubonic plague. Yet mankind survived, and the disease eradicated itself. Maybe, just maybe.. life doesn't need the government for anything. (*gasp!)

See, you guys got me all fired up now.. :)
 
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I had a call with Jason Isabelle Last Thursday. The conversation was constructive and I learned that hunter satisfaction and survey data heavily weigh on regulations.

Firearms Season Timing- (moving season later)
2016 Survey in NE and NW regions of the state
15-20% supported
55-60% opposed
Remaining portions indifferent

2020 Survey NW & NW regions
20-24% supported
Same 55-59% opposed
Remaining portions indifferent.

These numbers are trending in the right direction, though largely support leaving firearms season in the Rut. I made the case that these 50-60% of gun hunters have probably never deer hunted the first week of November, having no such experience... We agreed that everyone wants to kill a big mature deer, though they have to exist for that to be possible. Jason even admitted for his own selfish reasons he would like to see the season moved back to attain more mature bucks in the herd, though he has to separate his personal preference being in the position he is. In the past hunter surveys have been sent out to 25% of hunters of which 15%ish of those are successfully completed for data analysis. I proposed that the surveys be prompted when hunters purchase permits on the online tool (mandatory prompt when permit purchase is selected) to increase the quality of this data.

Non-Resident Permits
When I brought up overcrowding of public lands and residents loosing access to private lands to NR's Jason agreed that he has received an increase in these concerns in recent years and the issue was going to be looked into further. He agreed that hunter recruitment and retention is extremely important for MO hunters. He said they will see how their current evaluation goes and what the outcome is will depend if any changes are made. Questions on surveys periodically will be made to be informed on what resident hunter feedback on the impact of non-resident hunters.

He is not the final decision maker on these issues, though his recommendations are heavily considered by the MDC Director & Conservation Commissioners.

Though the conversation went well, I see an uphill battle on the issue. It sounds like a broad campaign to help gun hunters understand the benefits of firearms season outside the rut.

Anyone in or who hunts MO willing to join my campaign please pm me.....
 
I appreciate the effort. Not a big fan of making big changes to NR tags—I’d support the one buck limit !

However, the rest is good, try for one win at a time!! Baby steps ! Moving the gun season back one week would be a win !

Note…We have tried for 12 years to move the gun season back (one week) in Minnesota with no success! It’s a challenge.
 
Hardwood11 said:
I appreciate the effort. Not a big fan of making big changes to NR tags—I’d support the one buck limit !

However, the rest is good, try for one win at a time!! Baby steps ! Moving the gun season back one week would be a win !

Note…We have tried for 12 years to move the gun season back (one week) in Minnesota with no success! It’s a challenge.
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Sorry to be bearer of bad news (for you), currently it sounds lie NR Draw is much closer to being a reality than I expected after my call with Jason.
Non-resident invasion is a huge problem for Mo resident hunters & something has to be done.
 
deep woods goat hunter said:
Sorry to be bearer of bad news (for you), currently it sounds lie NR Draw is much closer to being a reality than I expected after my call with Jason.
Non-resident invasion is a huge problem for Mo resident hunters & something has to be done.
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I guess there’s always Kansas and ground is cheaper.

I would be very surprised if that passes. … needs full legislative approval and would be a huge loss of revenue I’m guessing.
 
Hardwood11 said:
I guess there’s always Kansas and ground is cheaper.

I would be very surprised if that passes. … needs full legislative approval and would be a huge loss of revenue I’m guessing.
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It is not legislative at all. Mo is very different than most states. 4 member Conservation Commission approves regulation changes, most times from recommendations from MDC director, program supervisors (Jason I) and resolutions from CFM (Conservation Federation of Missouri). I'm life member.
Revenue is not an excuse to exploit the resource, that's kind of how we got where we are in MO imho.
 
So they allow up to 10 permits in CWD zones, and 2 bucks per year for Non Resident permits. Non residents with 80 acres can buy landowner tags and you think they will eliminate that and go to a Nonresident draw ??
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deep woods goat hunter said:
Sorry to be bearer of bad news (for you), currently it sounds lie NR Draw is much closer to being a reality than I expected after my call with Jason.
Non-resident invasion is a huge problem for Mo resident hunters & something has to be done.
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This will be interesting to see how it plays out. I hunt with friends (we're all NR), and we only hunt private ground I own. There's a number of ways they can apply the NR draw system, should they chose.

1) NR non-LO draw for tags based on point system.
1a) NR non-LO can buy a tag OTC that's good for private ground only, and draw for public ground.
2) NR LO gets/buys x tags per # acres to distribute as they desire for private ground only..
3) NR LO gets/buys 2 tags per year for personal use only.
4) NR LO draws for tags under point system like other NR non-LO.

In my neck of the woods, the week before rifle season, thru rifle season is a zoo. Cafe's are crowded as are the gas stations, convenience stores, lots of traffic. A lot of money being spent in the community. If they reduce the NR numbers by half, MDC might get their money from increased tag fees, but the local business won't. They'll lose out. Everyone is always ok with that until it impacts them. Is losing your business, or having your revenue significantly impacted a fair exchange so a few people can shoot a bigger buck? Not sure they would agree. Outfitters mayl be impacted as well. There are 2 in my neighborhood and I'm guessing they're running 20 guys a week each thru camp. I don't think they'll keep those numbers in a draw system.

In regards to private land opening up for residents to hunt. There will be some of that for sure, but there is also a lot of NR landowners in Missouri and I doubt if they will be leasing their ground out while they wait for a tag. But, Missouri has a fair amount of public ground for Res to hunt if the NR tags get reduced, which I think is more the goal? More open Public ground for Resident hunters?

Things are a'changin........
 
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