Booner
Well-Known Member
Yep, moisture is your limiting factor. If you get some timely rains you should have successful crop (food plot forage; maybe not production Ag quality). Like I said if you've got enough time to produce a tassel and your ears have formed you'll have enough to time to get some grain on that plant, may not be 200 bu but anything will feed them.
U will have corn. Ears will be higher and won't be dried down like AG corn or at least take longer- who cares. Smaller ears IMO but u will have corn on normal good soil (as long as deer don't pummel which is different issue). Or ya- if really dry. Should be ok though for deer. Post the results come fall. Like to see how turns out.
4DABUCKS
Well-Known Member
? For some with experience in putting a new plot in old crp. My plan was to spray and drill in beans (@ 6 acres). My problem with this is all the rain (looks like rain for most of next 2 weeks for my area). How late can I still do this or am I better to mow, wait couple weeks and then spray. Wait til early/mid July to spray again. Then just do a plot of brassicas for this 1st yr.
U likely can get away with any of those. Rain in may is nothing new. If ur beans go in anytime - u will be fine in whatever order u do it. Plenty of options. For example.... u could spray it now if u got a mega hot dose of, for example, heavy roundup rate, 2,4-d (not critical and only would do that if u want a nuke burn down & wait a little bit, 2,4-d is for sure optional but has +/-'s), ams, crop oil. Or Liberty at 40-45 oz substituted for round up. Or..... go plant and spray later if u had to. The beans will sit there for a bit. Ideally I'd spray and drill
Could u mow and wait and spray? Sure. U may not need to though and even that has ups and downs (residue matting down all over vs dying while standing if not mowed). And yep- could do brassicas too. U have time on ur side.
IMO, with a million options, here's EXACTLY what I'd do if it were mine (this is just me).... spread some pelletized lime with some sort of p&k mix with a little extra zinc & sulfur (any coop has this). Sure, some of p&k won't break Down but I'd still do it. Same time I'd hit with 40-45 liberty, 40-45 oz of s-metolachlor, prowl h2o, ams & crop oil (not as complicated as it sounds- I actually burnt down with another pre-emergent this year - I forget what it is). Drill beans that, IMO, in ur case: treated and u coat with innoculant from coop. I'd prefer liberty beans but that's me.
Come back when weeds are small and hit with ur post emergent (depending on if u have liberty or roundup beans) with another hit of s-metolachlor or a few other options on pre's and walk away if timed right. Not as complex as it sounds. All stuff at coop. Coop can help give u advice too. Good luck.
4DABUCKS
Well-Known Member
The way it's gonna work out is proly spray, lime and p n k, then drill all same couple days. Come back month later and spray again.
I could mow, lime amd p n k. Wait 2 wks and spray and drill at the same time. Seems to me would be close to the same thing. Only difference is the residual left after mowing vs standing dead.
I guess either way I see how it comes out mid Aug. Only out time and a Lil $. I got free rr beans and already have the round up, 24d, crop oil, cleth........The good thing is if beans don't come out perfect, this plot should make for and awesome brassica plot!
I could mow, lime amd p n k. Wait 2 wks and spray and drill at the same time. Seems to me would be close to the same thing. Only difference is the residual left after mowing vs standing dead.
I guess either way I see how it comes out mid Aug. Only out time and a Lil $. I got free rr beans and already have the round up, 24d, crop oil, cleth........The good thing is if beans don't come out perfect, this plot should make for and awesome brassica plot!
Lot of options.... 2,4-d, more atrazine & s-metolachlor is one. Callisto or mesotrione is going to be part of your solution most likely if you don't know if liberty or Round up ready. IMO- I'd get a premix generic with same ingredients that syngenta offers. They offer pre-mixes with atrazine, s-metolachlor & mesotrione, etc, etc. Sounds complicated but it's not. Just get one of the premixes in your unique case- spray and walk away. Several options for sure.
http://www.syngenta-us.com/prodrend...234788-dec7-4577-83fd-fbdd4ff6a732&fTy=0&et=8
http://www.syngenta-us.com/prodrend...234788-dec7-4577-83fd-fbdd4ff6a732&fTy=0&et=8
SB3
Active Member
True.
I still don't like post emergents only on either corn or beans "nowadays". Weeds have adapted and become incredibly nasty over the last 5, 10, 20 years. Round up resistance, etc. so- imho- pre emergents are a "must have" unless you are 1) lucky or 2) very aggressive with post emergent spraying. Too many weeds out there that can be two feet tall in 10 days & hard to kill. Every year new herbicides are meeting an unmet demand for the weeds out there. For a side thought of rambles... a lot to be less environmentally harmful & also to get away from round up. But ya- corn has some flexibility if u time sprayings right to allow enough time for canopy before residual is gone. **also- stuff in most the "pre cocktails" will often also act as a post emergent as well (like mesotrione). I sure hate seeing beans and corn being over taken with foxtail, pigweed, waterhemp, velvet leaf, etc, etc. a 2-3 prong approach to pre's is about the only reality we have unless a guy does have a lot of time to do extra sprays and can afford to run a bit of crop over. Or doesn't care if their are weeds because "it's for critters" (which I'm not a fan of playing around with weeds today - the ones that pop up are likely pretty nasty & can go from a little wildlife diversity to a full on takeover of a field).
Even if I'm doing food plots, I go more and more towards a 1 or 2 pass spraying. Even then (say it gets super wet) u could have to be flexible. The days of spraying round up 3 times or 4 on my beans are not practical and doable anymore. Just my 2 cents
. Couple pre's on either crop and even some different post emergent cocktails are kinda the norm with battling resistant weeds - & making sure u kill em dead! Good luck.
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Great advice above.
I'll offer this from a non-commercial ag guy with Mickey-Mouse sized equipment. I've been able to get by pretty well with 1-2 post sprayings.
I plant a hair later than the ag guys who want ideal world looking for the best yield (ie.... best yielding beans go in late April) ... The first flush of weeds I till under.... almost as good as spraying...... Then I get the crop in. Then spray a few weeks later and another right before canopy closes if needed.
Now...if your running on farm ground that's been farmed for 80 years (usually not the case for a foodplot), you obviously probably have more issues with the herbicide resistant rascals.
Pic from last year.... In this case, these were hit twice.
I'll offer this from a non-commercial ag guy with Mickey-Mouse sized equipment. I've been able to get by pretty well with 1-2 post sprayings.
I plant a hair later than the ag guys who want ideal world looking for the best yield (ie.... best yielding beans go in late April) ... The first flush of weeds I till under.... almost as good as spraying...... Then I get the crop in. Then spray a few weeks later and another right before canopy closes if needed.
Now...if your running on farm ground that's been farmed for 80 years (usually not the case for a foodplot), you obviously probably have more issues with the herbicide resistant rascals.
Pic from last year.... In this case, these were hit twice.
Looks really good! That's time and effort and the fruits of hard work, very nice!
Here's my last perspective, even on a "food plot scale". I'll kinda compare this to "why does a guy 2 hours from his farm want a Cellular Camera, could it save him some $?". Sometimes the answer is "YES!". Sometimes it's too complicated & other things to it where it's not a fit....
There's many parallels with herbicides and I'll just boil it down to MONEY & secondarily, TIME. As some of us have the time and enjoy it. Let's just talk COST..... I buy at my local coop that gives me competitive pricing. BUT, here's some pricing.....
http://www.farmershelpingfarmersco.com/chemical-price-list.html
I'll just rattle off some ballparks, just for fun, write & think & calculate as I type... Sorry it's a frigin mess, thinking out loud......
Acuron is a PHENOMINAL one pass Corn herbicide, exceptional. 4 chemical actions that take care of "pretty much" any weed known to man. ONE PASS, DONE (except in rare cases that DO HAPPEN - which would also complicate things for a 2 or 3 pass program or hinder the ability to spray at all due to conditions).....
HERBICIDE COST PER ACRE .... from above - $45/gallon but 3 qts/acre so: $34/acre for herbicides. ONE SPRAY. Say you did yourself, call it $3/acre to spray (or factor in low of $6/application on coop if you spray a lot to a high of $10/acre coop for your small guy rate.... Just call it $10/acre so we can use the HIGH DOLLAR rip off price).... If you did Accuron with nothing else (which is doable).... $44/acre applied. Do it yourself.... $37 applied. You want to run 2 qts round-up at Burn down or a qt of Liberty or maybe 1 qt round-up with some 2,4-d for example, let's add $7/acre..... $53 coop applied, $44 self applied. $44 SELF APPLIED is pry the more realistic food plotter scenario. BUT - let's just discuss cost without adding Post emergents if you spray acuron....
CORN: Multiple pass version: You do post emergents &/or lighter with pre's.... Corn: You are gonna run a Pre or residual in there or you are ok with having weedy corn. GLY + some sort of residual or accomplice (2,4-D, S-Metolachlor, Mesotrione, Atrazine) but you only do one, to "bare bones it"...... Say, $25/acre with a middle ground choice on pre's & self applied bundled in for a BALLPARK.... BUT 2 sprayings, just say ..... $50. ACURON WAS $37, one spraying. (acuron more if you added post emergents or had to do a rescue/rare second spraying). *Corn is for sure a scenario where it's harder to spray, time is hard to juggle, you don't want to mash up crops like you can get away with on beans "more so". Corn is just simply a 1-2 pass system Pre's almost have to be some sort of the equation.
BEANS: ... You want to do it RIGHT & actually kill weeds and not have waterhemp, lambsquarter & pigweed towering over the top in August..... You are doing 3 sprays, no doubt in my mind. Let's enter any combo of..... 1-2 qts round-up per spraying, most guys running 2-3 in a lot of situations now. 32-40 oz of Liberty otherwise. Often all containing AMS or a water treatment. At $12/gallon on bulk Gly or $60/gallon on generic Liberty.... $6 on round-up or $15 on Liberty.... Let's just leave it at that with no additives, nothing else..... X3 & each time, just factor a $3/self applied cost (gas, equipment, wear and tear, maybe time factor, whatever)......
GLY: $9 ($6 2 qts and $3 self applied cost), Liberty (GLYPHOSINATE.. way better & worth it!!!!): $18 ($15/qt & $3/self applied).... X THREE.... GLY = $27, Liberty = $54. Ok, Liberty is double the cost. So worth it, IMO, it's just SMOKES Gly, IMO. But, sure, go for Gly..... YES, just on cost.... Gly would be $27. IF you spray 3 times and if you can keep your weeds controlled with 3 Gly sprayings. 30" rows, I still say it's not happening but ok (remember this post in August when you find GLY only fields with pigweed & waterhemp towering). 7.5-15" rows, maybe you do it in 3 sprays and sitting ok. Is it worth the time to spray 3 times? Maybe to some it is. On the surface, $27 for Gly or $54 for the more effective Liberty is a viable route, NO DOUBT!!!!!
PRE's IN BEANS (we are running Liberty Beans in the planting after we burn down)... w/post @ burndown: say we did $6/Gly burn with Prowl H2O & Fierce (made up example, what I use), so +$28 w/ self application let's say= $34/acre. Second spraying, Liberty + S-Metolachlor: $28 w/self application. DONE, CLEAN finished. Total: $62.
So, in beans, it could be as VAST as $27 on gly only VS $62 on a pre-program. Big difference. Not as much if guys go Liberty: $54 vs $62. Still, is it worth it for less sprayings to pay a little more $? MAYBE, maybe not. Is there value in rotating corn/beans with one having Liberty & other having Roundup resistance (say Volunteer corn reasons or ridding yourself of Gly resistant weeds)???? ABSOLUTELY to me. Breaking the Gly resistant cycle with 3-5 years of Liberty for now is worth a ton, to me. Less spraying and not looking at a field of WH, PW & LQ is also worth a fortune to me as well (even if it's all the work it saves later in food plot setting OR yield loss in food plots).
OK.... That ramble was far more than I thought I'd throw up thinking out loud, sorry.
All I'm saying: there's no right answer for everyone, doesn't exist. Run the #'s though, define what's important to you (could be you don't want to spray multiple times OR don't like getting round-up on yourself, WHATEVER. Maybe YOU could care less... WHATEVER). Pre's are NOT that complicated. Beans or corn, they aren't anymore IF you are willing to do a TINY bit of research. Just go to COOP "Hey JIM BOB, Gimme a killa Pre-combo for round deez parts dat-ill kill all dem weeds round here..... you will start off with a major jump start advantage and when life gets busy and it's bad timing for spray (rain, whatever) - you could be sitting a lot better. I'm for Pre's BUT Sure don't mean everyone else needs to be. Them Pre's beez for me though!
**Just realized you can now buy generic Liberty cheaper than I was thinking before. Man, Liberty is the bomb and way cheaper than I recalled after looking it up.
Here's my last perspective, even on a "food plot scale". I'll kinda compare this to "why does a guy 2 hours from his farm want a Cellular Camera, could it save him some $?". Sometimes the answer is "YES!". Sometimes it's too complicated & other things to it where it's not a fit....
There's many parallels with herbicides and I'll just boil it down to MONEY & secondarily, TIME. As some of us have the time and enjoy it. Let's just talk COST..... I buy at my local coop that gives me competitive pricing. BUT, here's some pricing.....
http://www.farmershelpingfarmersco.com/chemical-price-list.html
I'll just rattle off some ballparks, just for fun, write & think & calculate as I type... Sorry it's a frigin mess, thinking out loud
......Acuron is a PHENOMINAL one pass Corn herbicide, exceptional. 4 chemical actions that take care of "pretty much" any weed known to man. ONE PASS, DONE (except in rare cases that DO HAPPEN - which would also complicate things for a 2 or 3 pass program or hinder the ability to spray at all due to conditions).....
HERBICIDE COST PER ACRE .... from above - $45/gallon but 3 qts/acre so: $34/acre for herbicides. ONE SPRAY. Say you did yourself, call it $3/acre to spray (or factor in low of $6/application on coop if you spray a lot to a high of $10/acre coop for your small guy rate.... Just call it $10/acre so we can use the HIGH DOLLAR rip off price).... If you did Accuron with nothing else (which is doable).... $44/acre applied. Do it yourself.... $37 applied. You want to run 2 qts round-up at Burn down or a qt of Liberty or maybe 1 qt round-up with some 2,4-d for example, let's add $7/acre..... $53 coop applied, $44 self applied. $44 SELF APPLIED is pry the more realistic food plotter scenario. BUT - let's just discuss cost without adding Post emergents if you spray acuron....
CORN: Multiple pass version: You do post emergents &/or lighter with pre's.... Corn: You are gonna run a Pre or residual in there or you are ok with having weedy corn. GLY + some sort of residual or accomplice (2,4-D, S-Metolachlor, Mesotrione, Atrazine) but you only do one, to "bare bones it"...... Say, $25/acre with a middle ground choice on pre's & self applied bundled in for a BALLPARK.... BUT 2 sprayings, just say ..... $50. ACURON WAS $37, one spraying. (acuron more if you added post emergents or had to do a rescue/rare second spraying). *Corn is for sure a scenario where it's harder to spray, time is hard to juggle, you don't want to mash up crops like you can get away with on beans "more so". Corn is just simply a 1-2 pass system Pre's almost have to be some sort of the equation.
BEANS: ... You want to do it RIGHT & actually kill weeds and not have waterhemp, lambsquarter & pigweed towering over the top in August..... You are doing 3 sprays, no doubt in my mind. Let's enter any combo of..... 1-2 qts round-up per spraying, most guys running 2-3 in a lot of situations now. 32-40 oz of Liberty otherwise. Often all containing AMS or a water treatment. At $12/gallon on bulk Gly or $60/gallon on generic Liberty.... $6 on round-up or $15 on Liberty.... Let's just leave it at that with no additives, nothing else..... X3 & each time, just factor a $3/self applied cost (gas, equipment, wear and tear, maybe time factor, whatever)......
GLY: $9 ($6 2 qts and $3 self applied cost), Liberty (GLYPHOSINATE.. way better & worth it!!!!): $18 ($15/qt & $3/self applied).... X THREE.... GLY = $27, Liberty = $54. Ok, Liberty is double the cost. So worth it, IMO, it's just SMOKES Gly, IMO. But, sure, go for Gly..... YES, just on cost.... Gly would be $27. IF you spray 3 times and if you can keep your weeds controlled with 3 Gly sprayings. 30" rows, I still say it's not happening but ok (remember this post in August when you find GLY only fields with pigweed & waterhemp towering). 7.5-15" rows, maybe you do it in 3 sprays and sitting ok. Is it worth the time to spray 3 times? Maybe to some it is. On the surface, $27 for Gly or $54 for the more effective Liberty is a viable route, NO DOUBT!!!!!
PRE's IN BEANS (we are running Liberty Beans in the planting after we burn down)... w/post @ burndown: say we did $6/Gly burn with Prowl H2O & Fierce (made up example, what I use), so +$28 w/ self application let's say= $34/acre. Second spraying, Liberty + S-Metolachlor: $28 w/self application. DONE, CLEAN finished. Total: $62.
So, in beans, it could be as VAST as $27 on gly only VS $62 on a pre-program. Big difference. Not as much if guys go Liberty: $54 vs $62. Still, is it worth it for less sprayings to pay a little more $? MAYBE, maybe not. Is there value in rotating corn/beans with one having Liberty & other having Roundup resistance (say Volunteer corn reasons or ridding yourself of Gly resistant weeds)???? ABSOLUTELY to me. Breaking the Gly resistant cycle with 3-5 years of Liberty for now is worth a ton, to me. Less spraying and not looking at a field of WH, PW & LQ is also worth a fortune to me as well (even if it's all the work it saves later in food plot setting OR yield loss in food plots).
OK.... That ramble was far more than I thought I'd throw up thinking out loud, sorry.
All I'm saying: there's no right answer for everyone, doesn't exist. Run the #'s though, define what's important to you (could be you don't want to spray multiple times OR don't like getting round-up on yourself, WHATEVER. Maybe YOU could care less... WHATEVER). Pre's are NOT that complicated. Beans or corn, they aren't anymore IF you are willing to do a TINY bit of research. Just go to COOP "Hey JIM BOB, Gimme a killa Pre-combo for round deez parts dat-ill kill all dem weeds round here..... you will start off with a major jump start advantage and when life gets busy and it's bad timing for spray (rain, whatever) - you could be sitting a lot better. I'm for Pre's BUT Sure don't mean everyone else needs to be. Them Pre's beez for me though!
**Just realized you can now buy generic Liberty cheaper than I was thinking before. Man, Liberty is the bomb and way cheaper than I recalled after looking it up.
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SB3
Active Member
Yeah I'm 3+ hours away and have limited weekends. I may go up this weekend and wanted to get the best kill I can, looking for chemical that'll work on either.
That's a tough one... I don't think there's one answer, imo. Pre-emergents like s-metochlachlor can help for sure. I'd suspect prowl h2o and fierce would help as well. Rotating liberty & Round up with corn & beans could help address any tolerance issues. If it got really bad- a year or 2 of tillage could kill those rhizomes or help- which is large part of problem. Then go back to no till. Other obvious things: not allowing it to go to seed which mainly would be: 1) putting to hay for a year or cover crops and/or mowing. 2) narrow row beans like 7.5 or 15" will shade it out faster.
In bottom or wet areas? Last few years been wet so maybe why worse?
Ya- I don't think magic bullet other than a year or 2 of tillable & very aggressive pre-emergent & post emergent rotations to make sure u throwing lots of different kill methods to it. Mother Nature always dishes out some tricky stuff to create challenges. Good luck. If have success post back. I think u got a couple seasons and array of solutions to fight back though.