Shotgunners - THINK FIRST

[deerhunter93]

Ok for those who think that there are still lots of deer and that we should not stop killing 3 or 4 does just for practice before that big buck steps out and then drop the does off at a HUSH locker, here are the real numbers from the IDNR. The stats for 2011/2012 season are 392,930 deer licenses sold and only 121,407 TOTAL deer harvested of which almost 62% were antlerless. The harvest numbers have fallen so drastically over the last 5 years but the total number of licenses have held pretty steady. I will ask once again what could possibly be the reason that the most knowledgable best equipped hunters, bow or shotgun or ML, with continuous seasons running from Sept 15th to the end of January buying as many licenses but killing 30,000 fewer deer? In 2006 there were 377,525 licenses sold and 150,552 deer killed, but in 2011 there were 392,930 licenses used to kill only 121,407 deer. :thrwrck:
Another interesting fact is that the deer accidents per BILLION MILES driven was lower in 2011 that it has been since 1985. 2011 saw 570 killed per billion miles driven and 1985 was 495 per billion miles driven. The only common thread is our continued over harvesting of does. I know that some will argue about the EHD and some other possible factors, but what ever the cause there are way fewer deer to hunt and the only way to reverse that is to stop killing as many does. I see nothing wrong with killing a doe and I will probably do so this weekend, but I do see something wrong with killing 5 or 6 does and then donating them to HUSH in the mistaken belief that some how that will lead to more and bigger bucks.
For the last few years I have made it a practice, if given the choice between a small or spike buck or a mature doe, of shooting the small buck. Like someone already said if I shoot a small buck before he reaches his prime, then 3 years from now the populations will be less one deer. If I shoot a mature doe then 3 years from now the populations is down by as many as 15 deer. Which is the right thing to do if you want your Grandchildren to be able to hunt deer here in Iowa with even a small chance of success?

bowmaker is spot on! This is not a bowhunter vs shotgun hunter battle, I know lots of guys on this site do both. This is about being smart and looking at the bigger picture of things.

 

[Sod Savage]

So I have been following along with this thread... Here is my situation, I am thinking first. My first thought is that my meat stick and summer sausage freezer is empty. Thats a big problem. So I know that I need to fill it.

I would love to fill it with a mature buck, but I have only shot four of those my whole life and probably missed two other ones, it was my scopes fault. And I just shot a mature buck last year so I probably won't even see one for 3-4 more years.

Do I shoot a doe and ruin the population? Or do I shoot a 1.5-2.5 year old buck and potential world record? If I shoot the buck I will just hang the skull and horns on the barn instead of in the house.

Seroius Question I hunt in Clayton County mostly.

 

[Sligh1]

Very few will be willing to do this BUT, if you are in an area that's been ravaged and few deer... It may be worth looking elsewhere to hunt for a year or 2. I mean, you could shoot a small buck to do "less damage" but honestly, the fact is, that buck shouldn't be taken either. The area needs time to recover period. Easier said than done and most won't seek other places to hunt BUT in reality, if the area is bad- it really shouldn't have more deer killed out of it if we're just talking honesty and reality here.

 

[GOARMY]

gun vs bow

This is only a Heads up to the gun hunters that things are a little out of balance right now. Things we all can have a handle in fixing. Today I saw 6 or 7 does out way past sunup and then an hour later on shooter 10 like 145ish. Of that pack of does 3 little ones were button bucks one I call super button. He has sharp buttons like spikes and his bro is just a normal button. Point is 2 of the does were old looking and I need them to live to replace the lost deer. For once in my life I really looked at those big headed does as important if not more than mr. 145. Like I said before big farms that are total QDM have seen some slow movement this year and I think it has taken many things to reach where we are now. If the gun hunters rip into them we will both be saying where did the deer all go. As it stands in some places it could take 5 years for things to come back so why not start on Saturday?

 

[Sod Savage]

well guys i am shooting something with a shotgun. i will let you guys decide. buck or doe, no fawns. clayton county isn't devoid of deer, but pop is probably down from the peak.

 

[LYON]

Sod, I don't think we can tell you what to do unless we know exactly what the area in which you hunt needs. If after the first drive or two (if that's how you will be hunting) you find yourself saying where are all the deer, then I think you have your answer. And like bowmaker said, it's not necessarily the 1 doe that's going to break the herd, it's the people getting multiple tags just because they can and shooting more deer than necessary just because they can. Good luck this weekend and be sure to let us know how it goes!

 

[Open Site]

I got to thinking if it wasn't for those mountain lions we would have plenty of deer around.

 

[CurtisWalker]

I got to thinking if it wasn't for those mountain lions we would have plenty of deer around.

Man to say you said bowhunters are on a high horse. Have you not read what we have put. You must be one of those shotgunners who think bowhunters know nothing and are only out to attack shotgunners. Untangle your panties and read the true message this thread was meant for.

 

[Open Site]

Man to say you said bowhunters are on a high horse. Have you not read what we have put. You must be one of those shotgunners who think bowhunters know nothing and are only out to attack shotgunners. Untangle your panties and read the true message this thread was meant for.

That was a joke. Get off your high horse and laugh.

 

[SCOFFIN]

Why do people seen to think they need deer meat to fill the freezer. While for some people this may be a necessity but for the vast majority of us it is not and we have other options to feed ourselves throughout the year.

Personally I'm finding spikes more plentiful than does. That is what I'll probably be shooting in lieu of a doe. Other choice is a mature buck. Does are getting a pass from me this year.

And to the above comment about shooting a young buck that might be the next world record, what about the doe that was bred by the monster buck that avoided your arrow all season. Shooting that doe does the same thing, but also takes 2 other deer out of the herd.

 

[Booner]

Why do people seen to think they need deer meat to fill the freezer. While for some people this may be a necessity but for the vast majority of us it is not and we have other options to feed ourselves throughout the year.

Personally I'm finding spikes more plentiful than does. That is what I'll probably be shooting in lieu of a doe. Other choice is a mature buck. Does are getting a pass from me this year.

And to the above comment about shooting a young buck that might be the next world record, what about the doe that was bred by the monster buck that avoided your arrow all season. Shooting that doe does the same thing, but also takes 2 other deer out of the herd.

Um because they enjoy it :thrwrck:??? You see, to some the rack doesn't mean a dang thing. Who are you to look down on the next guy for spending his earned money on a tag and then filling his freezer with the meat his family enjoys to eat? I mean isn't that why we buy a tag and deer hunt?

 

[150 Class]

The deer population is down, no doubt about it, but the sky is not falling either. To think we need to worry about our kids being able to hunt deer is ludicrous. At least, to think we hunters would be the reason for it, is. That will never happen in this day and age. The DNR won't let it happen, our society won't let it, and neither will we. When I started hunting, we hunters harvested less than 20,000 per year, and that wasn't that long ago. We are worried because the harvest is around 100,000 and we should shoot spikes but no does? Good grief! Harvest fewer does? Probably. No does? Not me. I am shooting at least one mature deer this year and if it is like most years, it'll probably be a doe. I will not suggest you do the same. Shoot what you want and enjoy the hunt. Give me a call if you need help tracking or dragging and I'll give you a high-5 when I get there.

 

[jjohnson]

well guys i am shooting something with a shotgun. i will let you guys decide. buck or doe, no fawns. clayton county isn't devoid of deer, but pop is probably down from the peak.

I would say Clayton is drastically down from the peak. Didn't they cut the doe tags in half last year. That should tell you something because I know it wasn't easy getting those tags reduced. I also know Clayton got hit pretty hard with EHD this fall.

Basically a few people in this thread have blinders on or just don't give a sh$$.

It comes down to common sense. If your out and your seeing good numbers of does. Shoot one and be happy. If doe numbers seem low shoot a buck.

As I see it the days of going out and slaughtering does need to stop. Nobody needs that much meat. Yes Booner we can't tell you or anybody what to do but don't be surprised when in a couple more years your hunting is junk.

I planned on shooting a few does with the bow or the shotgun this year. Until I sold the neighbor over 10 tags so far. Needless to say I won't be shooting any does in that area.

 

[gundog870]

Um because they enjoy it :thrwrck:??? You see, to some the rack doesn't mean a dang thing. Who are you to look down on the next guy for spending his earned money on a tag and then filling his freezer with the meat his family enjoys to eat? I mean isn't that why we buy a tag and deer hunt?

I don't think anyone is going to look down on anyone. I just see a dead doe this year as 3 of next years.

I know you understand the theory, the message, and the consequences. I assume you hunt hard enough that you get it. You're just arguing to argue with the above point. Which is fine, I'm equally guilty.

You can't deny the only way for our population to increase is to let the does go.

 

[gundog870]

The deer population is down, no doubt about it, but the sky is not falling either. To think we need to worry about our kids being able to hunt deer is ludicrous. At least, to think we hunters would be the reason for it, is. That will never happen in this day and age. The DNR won't let it happen, our society won't let it, and neither will we. When I started hunting, we hunters harvested less than 20,000 per year, and that wasn't that long ago. We are worried because the harvest is around 100,000 and we should shoot spikes but no does? Good grief! Harvest fewer does? Probably. No does? Not me. I am shooting at least one mature deer this year and if it is like most years, it'll probably be a doe. I will not suggest you do the same. Shoot what you want and enjoy the hunt. Give me a call if you need help tracking or dragging and I'll give you a high-5 when I get there.

There will be deer to hunt! No doubt, there were deer in the 70s too. We're simply saying lets pump the brakes as a group.

 

[Shoot2Kill]

I grew up in Iowa, moved away, landed in MN thinking the deer hunting would be close to the same as what I remember from IA before I moved. I was not prepared for what I slowly figured out - since I've lived here (central MN) the population has struggled year after year and for the last few years we have been able to shoot ONE deer and doe by lottery permit only for guns. If you shoot that doe on the lottery permit you are DONE. I used to live and breath deer hunting - I've pretty much quit - its just not worth the time and energy to sit in a tree and see nothing.

There is a hunting forum up here that I follow and there are multiple threads this fall about where are the deer!!?? Multiple reports from guys of large groups of gun hunters that did not even SEE A DEER!!!! I can post the links if you want to read about what could happen if people dont stop shooting too many does.

The population decline started right before I moved here - after 3 - 4 seasons of MN deer hunters getting to shoot 5 deer a piece, which many hunters did and it has never recovered. Looks like Iowa is maybe hitting that tipping point this year by following you guys this season.

After reading the threads on the MN forum it appears that for majority of the state shooting a doe is a luxury so they can get some meat, yet many MN hunters want to see people stop shooting does completely because of how low the population is. I made a few similar posts on IW in the past about not letting Iowa turn into MN - dont let it!!!!

 

[LYON]

Would it be worth it to collaboratively draft a letter that we could each individually use. This letter would explain everything we've been talking about in this thread. It would in no way shape or form single out any particular group or type of hunter but be strictly and informative piece of information that could be distributed by email, Facebook, hang in theisens, etc. I believe if you did a survey of all hunters there would be a vast majority that would say they have seen deer numbers going down but would not have thought about any type of solution or how THEY can individually help the situation. I would imagine there are many out there as well that maybe do know what needs to be done but may have the mentality of why should I hold back when the next guy won't. Kind of like I better get while the getting is still good. If something gets distributed that would make everyone feel like we are all on the same page that mentality might change a bit.
I would imagine this letter to be either anonymous or even signed by IW (not sure how that would need to be approved, just throwing it out there). My thought would be that we can all distribute this letter, as we are able, to friends and family that hunt and ask them to forward it on. If the letter is written correctly people will listen, understand and want to share the info with others. This could move through an email chain very quickly.
It would have to be strictly informational and not a this is what you should do, but rather a here's what you can do. As simple as it is I don't think many people realize that we hunters hold the key. They see it as well the DNR issued the tags so let's shoot what they give us.

Idk. Maybe its a crazy idea but I think it would have potential to help. And yes its probably a little late for this season but better late than never. Or maybe its something that will take some work to put together and will be ready for distribution prior to next year.....Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[huntemup]

I have zero decline. I need at least 20 to 25 does killed off my properties. We will have an absolute ball whacking and stacking does. Not every area has a problem. The bonus tags just need to be for private lands only and most of the problem of over harvest would take care of itself.

 

[gundog870]

I have zero decline. I need at least 20 to 25 does killed off my properties. We will have an absolute ball whacking and stacking does. Not every area has a problem. The bonus tags just need to be for private lands only and most of the problem of over harvest would take care of itself.

That is an interesting concept. Definitely would change the game.

 

[SCOFFIN]

Um because they enjoy it :thrwrck:??? You see, to some the rack doesn't mean a dang thing. Who are you to look down on the next guy for spending his earned money on a tag and then filling his freezer with the meat his family enjoys to eat? I mean isn't that why we buy a tag and deer hunt?

No where in there did I say I look down on people who hunt for the enjoyment. I love hunting and just want it to continue to be good for years to come. Not just for me but for everybody. However if we continue to hunt just because tags are available, enjoyment may become a thing of the past. I use to enjoy pheasant hunting in Iowa. I don't spend 1 single minute on it anymore.