Thought of day- NR’s, lobbyists & politicians wanting to change our laws..

[Sligh1]

(Below rant summarized in response to new legislation brought by our politicians & lobbyists - WRITE IN!!!! 1) anyone in country can hunt here every year as it is!! 2) more deer in vast majority of other states vs iowa. 3) whiny rich guys hiring lobbyists to change iowas laws to suit their interests is shameful & no merit to their argument/tantrum)

99% of this is obvious so I’ll try not to beat the dead horse…. We all know hunters from every state want to come here. Vast majority silently wait until they draw their magic golden ticket upon draw. & congrats when they do!!!! There’s a few that whine & cry “I need to hunt every year”. Which they can!!!!!….. they can kill a doe every year. They can party hunt & kill a buck EVERY YEAR. They can small game hunt, they can turkey hunt, etc etc etc. Not one citizen in this country cannot hunt iowa every year!!!!!!!!!!
The one thing that stands out…. A few wealthy guys hire lobbyists, have a tantrum they can’t hunt every year. Again- incorrect, they can!!!!!

HERE’S MY MINOR, TINY LITTLE THOUGHT OF DAY ON TOP OF THAT…… think about this…. Deer are in every state. There’s actually more deer in almost every state we hear those few guys raise heck from. There’s no necessity to travel here, driving countless hours to hunt deer here!!!!! By definition…. Traveling here to shoot a deer is a “LUXURY trip”!! (I am not knocking any NR’s here!!! I used to be one & I love my NR buddies & don’t blame them one bit for coming here!!!). But it’s not a necessity. Look at this map. Let’s say u live in TEXAS, MICHIGAN, FLORIDA, PA or wherever ….. you have more deer in your state!!!! Why do folks NEED to come here & make a case that we change things in favor of increasing access of NR’s??? When by definition- this limited resource will displace a R every time this this line is moved.

I don’t want IL to give me advantages or an equal playing field over their NR’s! Or out west in Elk states. I want them to make it hard for me so the R’s don’t get displaced!!!! I beg other states!!!…. Make it harder for me to come there if access & resources are limited. If folks like me displace & make it harder for R’s to get access…. PLEASE, LIMIT MY ACCESS as a NR and a person that cannot vote for you in your state!!!
It’s simply ironic that an animal that’s widely available in every state & far more abundant than in iowa is such a hot topic!!!! This is a very limited resource in iowa. Not so much in other states. Clearly we all know it’s the QUALITY that attracts folks here. Rightfully so & I do not fault the NR’s one bit for wanting to come here. This is NOT a bash at NR’s one bit!!!!! Please understand that!!! It is a bash at the few that hire lobbyists to change our regulations to suit their interests when they have more deer in their state than we do here!!!!! Think of it!!!…. Just from a governmental level that might not care about “big bucks”…. These folks hiring lobbyists to change our laws have vastly more deer in their state than we do here. & they “need to hunt here every year”…. Which they already can!!!! IRONIC isn’t it???

This is my rant off top of my head that’s all over the map. Just whipped this up and posted so sorry it’s a mess but hopefully this irony shines through. Especially as these groups are tying to step by step change our regs like this year- adding more NR tags to quota. Which will NOT stop there- stepping stone. We don’t need more hunters in iowa. We don’t. R’s are having tough time as it is!!! & getting pressure from guys with $ that have more deer in their state!!!!

WRITE IN IN RESPONSE TO ANY CHANGES TO OUR REGULATIONS to pimp our fragile resource!!!!! Spread word to others & join IBA!!!!

 

[Windlooker]

Skip. Many good points. If you want legislators to read it I’d bullet point the primary messages. It’s like a resume. Nobody reads long paragraphs. I sat on hiring panels in my last life and paragraph resumes were tossed.

But, their eyes are drawn to bullet points. Just my .02 if you want legislators to read.

 

[Sligh1]

Skip. Many good points. If you want legislators to read it I’d bullet point the primary messages. It’s like a resume. Nobody reads long paragraphs. I sat on hiring panels in my last life and paragraph resumes were tossed.

But, their eyes are drawn to bullet points. Just my .02 if you want legislators to read.

Absolutely. That’s how I write all my biz docs or anything to an audience like legislatures. Spot on!!! I even thought of sending them the short video on “keep iowa great”
Ya- anyone else- agree - don’t do my above novel . Bullet points are the ticket!!!!!

 

[Hardwood11]

One rule that I think would make some sense is if a Nonresident landowner shoots a doe they get one Preference point for the next year draw…

The legislature wants more does killed, that might be one that is palatable?

Good incentive to shoot more does.

 

[Windwalker]

There would be way more NR land owners that’s for sure and higher land prices for hunting rec ground.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

One rule that I think would make some sense is if a Nonresident landowner shoots a doe they get one Preference point for the next year draw…

The legislature wants more does killed, that might be one that is palatable?

Good incentive to shoot more does.

It would push points to the moon and make a guy that didn't own land wait 10 years. I would be in favor of cheaper does tags for NR, but not tied to buck tags in any way.

 

[Sligh1]

The reduced price NRLO doe tags seems like a reasonable one on the surface.

 

[Rous14]

You guys are touching on a sensitive topic for me with the shoot more does comments haha. Sorry, I been on a multi year rant about it. Just not convinced that in 90% of the Midwest right now that there needs to be incentives or encouragement to shoot does. I also know that’s not a popular opinion haha, so I’ll stop here.

 

[Tmayer13]

You guys are touching on a sensitive topic for me with the shoot more does comments haha. Sorry, I been on a multi year rant about it. Just not convinced that in 90% of the Midwest right now that there needs to be incentives or encouragement to shoot does. I also know that’s not a popular opinion haha, so I’ll stop here.

No to high jack this post but you are also speaking for Illinois....I have sat on many farms during a late season hunt over food with well over 50, 60, 100 does on it at on time.....thats ONE field....SOME areas here in IA have WAY too many does

 

[Hardwood11]

It would push points to the moon and make a guy that didn't own land wait 10 years. I would be in favor of cheaper does tags for NR, but not tied to buck tags in any way.

I think there’s a bill on this already, but not specifically for landowners. The problem is NRLO doe situation. It’s not the guy from Louisiana who hunts on public land. The doe he shoots is irrelevant. Public land is not overrun with does.

The doe a NRLO shoots is a factor . Maybe low cost doe tags is the best option ??

The is a legislative concern. What happens is if you say NO to everything… they will eventually ignore you.

Compromise is tough, but necessary at times .

 

[Sligh1]

You guys are touching on a sensitive topic for me with the shoot more does comments haha. Sorry, I been on a multi year rant about it. Just not convinced that in 90% of the Midwest right now that there needs to be incentives or encouragement to shoot does. I also know that’s not a popular opinion haha, so I’ll stop here.

I actually agree with u. I actually agree with your statistic as well of 90%. I travel most this state & on farms often. You’re spot on. MOST the state doesn’t need more does shot & most the state has shot too many. There’s some large landowner pockets & few other areas that do need more shot & I’d call that the “10%”. Some parts down south, like mentioned above, have pockets of “lots of deer”. But the other areas do not. Very hard for a casual guy in xyz area to understand the variance of high deer areas to “hardly any deer” - both sides find it hard to understand the other.
Give it 2-3 more years with the late shed buck season & the “average guys” hunting “average areas” are gonna be really frustrated. After I suggest they look in the mirror for who to blame- they darn well better be going to the DNR meetings & voicing up to the legislatures & dnr.

 

[Sligh1]

I think there’s a bill on this already, but not specifically for landowners. The problem is NRLO doe situation. It’s not the guy from Louisiana who hunts on public land. The doe he shoots is irrelevant. Public land is not overrun with does.

The doe a NRLO shoots is a factor . Maybe low cost doe tags is the best option ??

The is a legislative concern. What happens is if you say NO to everything… they will eventually ignore you.

Compromise is tough, but necessary at times .

Good points. Agree with most. On the other hand, There’s a lot of issues where there needs to be a Line in the sand. The “Deer pimps” (special interests, lobbyists, deer hating politicians, etc) always smell weakness & blood & they are relentless at exploiting the resource for their benefits or desires.
Iowa has a line in the sand right now. It starts with a line that’s WAAAAYYYYYYY far out in distance too!!… 4.5 months of season NOW, 7 seasons & 6+++ weapon choices. Why is the conversation always about EXTENDING that line?!?!?! Why can’t it, for once, be about reining in that line?!?!??!! Hunters are always on defense & the deer pimps are always on offense.
Deer hunters defending iowa, whether approved or not have given a lot in last 10 years…. 1) Shed buck season added, removed & added. 2) straight wall rifles added to deer season. 3) youth tags carried through out season. 4) more opportunities for veterans deer hunting. 5) leaving quotas the same after 3 huge EHD outbreaks. 6) crossbows added to late ML season. & few other examples. All liberalizing regs. Never a conservative approach to tighten things up.
*& of course most of this has nothing to do with your post. Which was excellent & well thought out with valid points.

 

[Rous14]

I actually agree with u. I actually agree with your statistic as well of 90%. I travel most this state & on farms often. You’re spot on. MOST the state doesn’t need more does shot & most the state has shot too many. There’s some large landowner pockets & few other areas that do need more shot & I’d call that the “10%”. Some parts down south, like mentioned above, have pockets of “lots of deer”. But the other areas do not. Very hard for a casual guy in xyz area to understand the variance of high deer areas to “hardly any deer” - both sides find it hard to understand the other.
Give it 2-3 more years with the late shed buck season & the “average guys” hunting “average areas” are gonna be really frustrated. After I suggest they look in the mirror for who to blame- they darn well better be going to the DNR meetings & voicing up to the legislatures & dnr.

I’d be curious though Skip in the 10% areas what the herd quality is….Other than in the very very rare area where there’s more deer than the habitat can sustain (and I’d question whether that even exists in IA) I believe that those areas with the most deer also have the most upper end bucks (All other variables being similar of course). Purely a numbers game. Genetics don’t change.

As TMayer pointed out above I mostly use IL as the poster child for my argument but the concept applies 100% to IA. Every “expert”, biologist, deer industry person jumped all over the idea that the herd was way too big in IL (and IA and anywhere else) and that does needed to be shot. Kill the does, kill the does! This was back in the 2000s when IL’s herd may have rivaled even Iowas or at least wasn’t too far from it. I’ve always asked everyone of those “experts” how that world class herd was “hurting” or “socially stressed”? There sure were an incredible amount of ”stressed” 250 pound 180” bucks and 150 pound does that the habitat couldnt support haha. It’s the perfect case study. If less deer equal bigger bucks where’s the evidence in IL? There aren’t even close to as many big bucks running around now as there was back then. Not sure why the hunters in general haven’t realized this and why the pendulum hasn’t swung back yet.

Whens the last time theres been an article or talking celebrity that promoted NOT shooting does? That the hunting was better when there was more deer? Those articles don’t exist and it blows me away.

 

[Rous14]

No to high jack this post but you are also speaking for Illinois....I have sat on many farms during a late season hunt over food with well over 50, 60, 100 does on it at on time.....thats ONE field....SOME areas here in IA have WAY too many does

See my post above….I am using IL as the basis for my opinion but it certainly applies to IA and the rest of the Midwest. As Skip and I agreed, it’s possible that you are in a rare area that have adequate doe numbers. I certainly can’t speak to your specific example or the area you hunt but I will say that I feel many guys make the mistake of seeing deer herded up in the late season (almost always by a great or at least best food source in the area) and draw a wrong conclusion imo. I’ve heard plenty of guys in IL talk about how “there was 100 deer in such n such field last night, need to kill some more does!”. Usually in December or later. And usually there’s a food source there that’s got almost every deer from 1 1/2/miles in it. Meanwhile every scientific statistical evidence in just about every county in IL shows 20-40% less deer than 10-15 years ago. Perception vs reality kinda thing.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Ths doe thing is So incredibly farm specific it is impossible to manage from a county level, let alone a state level.

Real world example. Collectively we shot 31 does off one of my clients farms. Zero mistakes. No shed bucks. No button bucks. AND you cannot tell we shot a single deer. There are 4 big foodplots. Each has 20-60 deer a night in it. This isn't a giant farm either. 400 acres.

 

[Hardwood11]

One rule that should I wish would be adopted. No season beyond New Years Eve .

Dec 31!! Everyone has the ability to get it done before then. Just my opinion

 

[newfarmer]

One rule that should I wish would be adopted. No season beyond New Years Eve .

Dec 31!! Everyone has the ability to get it done before then. Just my opinion

This!! I have never understood the extra 10 days.

 

[Rous14]

Ths doe thing is So incredibly farm specific it is impossible to manage from a county level, let alone a state level.

Real world example. Collectively we shot 31 does off one of my clients farms. Zero mistakes. No shed bucks. No button bucks. AND you cannot tell we shot a single deer. There are 4 big foodplots. Each has 20-60 deer a night in it. This isn't a giant farm either. 400 acres.

You’re probably technically right IBH but at the same time when by just about every metric that the states use to track deer numbers at a county and state level show a significant reduction in numbers then what do you do if youre In charge of that state? Or if you’re a hunter in that state/county.

Bottom line imo is that pretty much everyone agrees that the deer herd was bigger and better in Iowa and IL 10-15 years ago…..while at the same time almost everyone says to keep killing does and how great it is and there’s too many of them. Don’t see how those two things can possibly be true at the same time other than on a very rare specific farm or area like Skip has suggested and that I agree with. Sounds like your clients farm could be one of those rare ones.

So 90% of the areas in IA and IL have fewer deer, worse hunting,….. and yet 98% of hunters promote killing does. Don’t get that. Tells me that the vast majority of hunters probably shouldn’t be killing does but that all they’ve heard for 10-15 years is that they should and how great it is. Like I said, the next article or celebrity that says grow the herd/dont shoot does for awhile will be the first.

 

[Sligh1]

You’re probably technically right IBH but at the same time when by just about every metric that the states use to track deer numbers at a county and state level show a significant reduction in numbers then what do you do if youre In charge of that state? Or if you’re a hunter in that state/county.

Bottom line imo is that pretty much everyone agrees that the deer herd was bigger and better in Iowa and IL 10-15 years ago…..while at the same time almost everyone says to keep killing does and how great it is and there’s too many of them. Don’t see how those two things can possibly be true at the same time other than on a very rare specific farm or area like Skip has suggested and that I agree with. Sounds like your clients farm could be one of those rare ones.

So 90% of the areas in IA and IL have fewer deer, worse hunting,….. and yet 98% of hunters promote killing does. Don’t get that. Tells me that the vast majority of hunters probably shouldn’t be killing does but that all they’ve heard for 10-15 years is that they should and how great it is. Like I said, the next article or celebrity that says grow the herd/dont shoot does for awhile will be the first.

One point of clarification that’s important IMO…. A lot or MOST of the “shoot does” RIGHTFULLY stems from this general idea or situation …. The dudes that always shot the young bucks. When there is “a good # of does”….. LET’S SHOOT “A DOE” VS SHOOTING ANOTHER YOUNG BUCK!!!! (Or just want ONE for freezer) Which I actually think is a very very very good thing & good change!!!!!! Where that precise motive & goal changes or veers a vastly different direction is: “I used to shoot a doe vs shooting another small buck…. If that’s good…. Let’s shoot 10 does!!!” …. & countless guys with multiple small tracts doing the same. If 10 guys shoot 10 does off small tracts for example- clearly we can see it going the other direction REALLY FAST. & that does happen!!!!!! It’s so hard to balance.
When above rightfully shoots 30 deer off one farm- I personally know guys like that are spot on with the thinking & results. When Jim Bob & 40 cousins all shoot a pile of does not really knowing about deer density - it can destroy an area & does.

SO!! …. IMO- Shooting does vs another small buck- awesome!!! Shooting way too many does for guys that are not dialed in to deer management - not a good thing. Deer managers in uniquely high density areas surgically taking the right amount out with a lot of knowledge- great!!
The balance & folks doing right thing is what’s way out of whack right now. Most folks are shooting & not understanding deer densities/populations.

Average it all out… educated deer managers + general public - overall - too many does are shot in Midwest. Period, IMO

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Here's another example in the exact opposite side of things. On my farm, in 6 years, we've shot TWO total does. Both this year. Prior 5 years, ZERO. Similar size farm as above. Just doesn't have the deer density. Gotta manage at the farm level. The more folks we can educate on this the better the overall herd will be.