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Timber Stand Improvment

Should I hinge cut and create a tangled mess in front the stand, block the trail so that the deer head north quite a ways from the his stand?

Lot's of good thoughts on this so I will just add that you can certainly block it off with hinging. It is possible to create such a mess that few deer would consider bedding in it which is why/how we can create funnels with hinging. None of that has anything to do with TSI really but your problem is something we all run into at one time or another. Keep us posted on how your situation works out...;)
 
Timber Stand Improvement

Step 1 Marking Crop Trees

This is the time of year when we most commonly do TSI work which is typically comprised of two main operations....Crop Tree Release where crop trees are located, marked and then weed/cull trees are killed to release the crop trees and Weed Tree Removal where ALL weed trees are killed to encourage oak regeneration. They are somewhat the same of course but with slightly different goals, so while we can use hinging as a tool to release crop trees (or to fall weed trees) it should be remembered that the act of hinging trees is NOT considered TSI. Timber Stand Improvement generally requires a plan and may or may not be funded with cost share designed to enhance and encourage our hardwood timbers which in turn has long lasting and far reaching economic benefits.

A side benefit is that wildlife will also benefit from increased mast production and in most cases increased ground cover/undergrowth due to reduced canopy. I personally incorporate hinging cull trees into a CTR or WTR and most Forest Stewardship Plans will allow falling small trees which I just hinge rather then cut down.

For the novice landowner it is critical to start by walking your timber with your forester because you may find that logging mature trees may be your first step. I wonder how many of you would turn down $10,000 if it was offered to you??

Almost any 40 with mature trees could easily have that much value and in many cases double that so it would border on insanity to just start indiscriminately killing/hinging trees without being certain of hat you have. Even a stand of mature maple could easily be worth the price of a new car so don't take these things for granted.

Marking crop trees then is critical because some stands may be ALL crop trees and you will need to decide which trees to kill and which are valuable crop trees that need to be released.

Forestry Suppliers carries all kinds of marking and measuring tools but for marking crop trees I simply use spray cans and a easy to use applicator handle from Menards and I carry spare cans in a backpack.

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Cans with the larger nozzle work best, those with the old style often leak

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It's difficult to see "the forest for the trees" as the saying goes so marking the crop trees first helps avoid making mistakes and allows us to inventory trees. In this pic you can see the red line on the large crop tree in the background.

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Stands like this one have lot's of "junk" and few crop trees

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making it relatively easy to mark the crop trees

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but each stand is different and every landowner will be faced with unique situations and challenges that may leave the average landowner scratching their head on what to do?

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Stands of pure white oak can be a nightmare to mark and require some thought and knowledge before doing so. Even two foresters will disagree on which trees to kill and which to leave standing.

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I usually end up with a headache because marking requires looking at the canopies as much as the trees themselves.

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Oaks like this are prime cull candidates when better specimens are in need of release

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Without marking first, releasing these trees would be a confusing and time consuming task

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Plans usually call for placing white or red oaks when deciding which tree to release

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While at the same time using care to keep diversity in the stand

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Note the dying tree in the background...oak wilt is common in my area and both blacks and reds are more affected then whites.

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Again difficult choices when

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The cull trees are all oaks!!

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A look skyward makes the decision easier however

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Plans call for a "four sided release"...if only the trees were evenly spaced!

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I often consult my IDNR State Forester Ray Lehn to make sure I am making good choices when dealing with valuable white oaks which often are "stump sprouts" resulting in doubles...to which Ray had the following advice...

Everything is relative on deciding to kill or not. There is always the potential for rot to enter the cut if you do kill one stem, but on white oak I think that threat is minimal, especially if the split is lower to the ground and a wide, U shaped, split. The quality of the stems is obviously important as is the size. I often look at surrounding trees to make the decision.

If killing one or more of the stems will benefit not only the multi stem remaining but also release a potential crop tree that is adjacent, then I tend to remove one or more of the stems. If all the multiple stems are relatively good quality and near harvestable size, I probably would not thin them. If one of the stems is significantly smaller than the others, but still competing, I would tend to remove it. TSI is an art as much as a science. Go paint and create your masterpiece.

This is a -V- shaped crotch that we may think twice about when deciding if we should kill one side

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This has a -U- shaped crotch that is less likely to cause rot that might then kill the entire tree.
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if the tree is not crowding other trees it's usually best to leave it alone

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but when the trees need to be released...choose the smaller side or the side with poor canopy or the side that will release another better quality oak

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By starting with a tour of your timber with your forester you can avoid making costly errors and destroying valuable timber. Most foresters are not interested in the ability of your timber to hold big whitetails, so don't concern them with that. Simply find out if your timber needs to be logged or if a release is best, find out if you have valuable oak and black walnut trees in your stand or if it is predominately low value trees like elm, hickory and ash.

If you have few crop trees and the area is small, the forester may be willing to help you mark the trees but on larger tracts you may need to hire someone to mark trees or even do a Crop Tree Release using state or federal cost share funds. Once that is done you can you can hinge remaining trees without fear of killing crop trees that can not be replaced in this lifetime.

Typically large weed trees are killed with a double girdle but smaller trees can be hinged and even young white oaks can be felled where they are too thick and I will share more on that in future posts.... ;)
 
Tree Identification

I took a few pics in the timber the other day to help with tree ID using the bark only, because in winter ID via leaves is useless. Trees look different at different stages of growth of course some very young trees may look far different then very old trees but these pics can give you some clues as to what you are looking at.

One trick to help in being certain if a tree is a black walnut for instance is to scrape the bark (I use the bottom of my paint cans) like this ash which shows up very light brown

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Ash bark

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Black Walnut's however will look very dark chocolate colored when scraped

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Black Walnut bark

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Larger trees will of course look different

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It is rare not to find black walnuts on the ground to also be certain

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They are unmistakeable

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Cottonwoods can often look somewhat like a BW

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but the bark is soft brown underneath

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Basswood also is a dark colored bark

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It does tend to be dark underneath as well but basswood bark is much tighter (smoother) then BW

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and it often grows in clumps

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Shagbark hickory is of course easy to identify but bitternut hickory is also very common and the bark is very different

Often called "smoothbark" hickory as well

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The nuts look much different then those of shagbarks as well

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In some cases deer will eat these nuts if no other mast is available but deer are unlikely to turn down sweet white oak acorns for bitternuts

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This is Black Oak bark

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Notice the "alligator skin" type surface

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This is red oak bark which tends to be smoother and has a greenish hue to the flat areas

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Red and black oaks can hybridize so sometimes only a DNA test can reveal the species for certain but in most cases the difference between black and red is obvious by the bark

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There are of course many many other tree species not only in SE Iowa but across the nation so take a walk with your forester and using a paint can, mark on the side of sample trees that you can refer back to. Pick up tree ID books and make use of great web sites such as these

What Tree is this?

Identify America's 100 Most Common Trees

Trees of Iowa: An Interactive Key

and there are many more including many university tree ID resources so do a search for more links in your area. :way:
 
Great timing on post. I just walked my timber with forester last week, and I am going to start cutting this coming weekend. Now. Will have a few reference pictures. The forester also marked some trees for me. Thanks for the pics.
 
I have the local state forestry rep coming to my new farm on March 6th. Im looking forward to learning as much as I can and working towards a management plan. Of course my objective is to create better deer habitat, Should this remain a hidden agenda?

Also my farm was being select cut when the original owner decided to sell, so half the farm has been recently logged. Im curious to see if it was done right and what value remains in the timber.

I just read this entire thread word for word. I feel i have a pretty good understanding of what the obejective is with TSI and am very willing to learn. My tree identification skills are fairly good. I hope to do as much of the work myself. Is there a standerd or degree that one needs to do this type of work to recieve federal funding?
 
Of course my objective is to create better deer habitat, Should this remain a hidden agenda?

Absolutely not. A good forester will only make recommendations that will help you better reach your goals and objectives. Times have changed and foresters in the midwest have become quite accostomed to working with landowners whose primary goal is to increase habitat, especially whitetail habitat. Clearly tell them what your goals and objectives are, and trust their professional opinion and that they are leading you in the right direction.

Just a side note: Timber stand improvement is a broad reaching category, with more specific activities within, such as crop tree release, basal area thinning, or weed tree removal. Each has its place, and when properly utilized they are quite effective tools used to reach a desired outcome. Although there is much scientific evidence that each activity works, you will often see a difference of opinion from foresters as to which activity should be applied to a specific stand of trees. Even within crop tree release it is often debated as to how many crop trees should be released per acre.

Anyway, stop by the DNR booth at the Classic and chat with the district foresters. They will be there friday through sunday!
 
No formal training or degree necessary to receive cost share funding federal or state but you will be required to follow the Forest Stewardship Plan and most foresters are happy to help you with any questions.

There can be problems however when landowners tell foresters that they want cost share to improve their deer habitat..some foresters get "grumpy" about that becuase the cost share is for TIMBER STAND IMPROVEMENT...not, deer habitat improvement...:rolleyes:

Now that doesn't mean we can not improve wildlife habitat at the same time but I try to avoid "ruffling feathers" so to speak when discussing motivations for improving the quality of the timber...just talk trees with your forester and they will be happy to work with you...:)
 
The forester I talked with totally understood the fact that the biggest reason I had signed up was to improve deer habitat. He even recommended and talked highly of hinge cutting. He told me to hinge cut away. He just mentioned that I could not include these hrs in the cost share program, so I would have to keep my hrs separate from the standard tsi.

He did say that he does get some grief from other foresters for recommending hinge cutting.

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T He just mentioned that I could not include these hrs in the cost share program, so I would have to keep my hrs separate from the standard tsi.
I don't quite understand what you are saying here about hours?

From what I understand they give you so much per acre to complete

the plan they would like you to do. After you are done they pay you

regardless of how many hours it takes to complete.?
 
I applied for the tsi program on a part of my farm, and I was told the way that I get paid is by turning in a bill to the nrcs with hrs and rate on it. The nrcs told me that most of the bills that come in are around $160 per acre for the tsi. I can do the work myself or hire it done, I just have 2 yrs to complete the acres I signed up for. I really didn't get into a lot of detail with them about the wage rate because I figure the pay is just a bonus because I would be doing it for habitat even if there was no pay.

I think you also have a deadline to sign up for it so the state has the money reserved. I think deadline has also passed.

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It does seem to me that a flat rate per acre is the easiest, but both the forester and nrcs personnel talked about hrs. I can also see that some timbers would need far less work than others or some more work than others. I would definitely be happy with $160 per acre as it wouldn't take that long for the tsi part, but add in hinge cutting everything else and it seems like the time easily triples.

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It does seem to me that a flat rate per acre is the easiest, but both the forester and nrcs personnel talked about hrs. I can also see that some timbers would need far less work than others or some more work than others. I would definitely be happy with $160 per acre as it wouldn't take that long for the tsi part, but add in hinge cutting everything else and it seems like the time easily triples.

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Thanks for the information.

I am waiting for my biologist and forester to get me my plan first
and then I will apply for the grants.
I should get it any day now.

Yes the deadline has passed but will have everything ready for this fall and winter.

I will know more about the rates later when I apply.

Our Aspen plan was $200.00 per acre flat fee.
 
Generally all cost share is figured on a per acre rate and set by the forester...I have never heard of "hours" coming into play. TSI work is not unlike custom combining for instance...so much an acre...that's it and that's that. Turn in a bill for the max amount and then some if you wish but all you will collect is 75% of the amount allocated (assuming it is REAP funds)...nothing more...nothing less...;)
 
Generally all cost share is figured on a per acre rate and set by the forester...I have never heard of "hours" coming into play. TSI work is not unlike custom combining for instance...so much an acre...that's it and that's that. Turn in a bill for the max amount and then some if you wish but all you will collect is 75% of the amount allocated (assuming it is REAP funds)...nothing more...nothing less...;)

The REAP program is based on the actual cost of the project, not to exceed the set maximums for the practice. Meaning you will be reimbursed 75% of what it actually costs you to complete the practice, up to the maximum. If the project costs you less than the maximum, you will be reimbursed 75% of whatever that cost is. It does matter how many "hours" you work on a project if you do it yourself because that extablishes the project "cost". You must keep track of the hours worked, apply that times an hourly rate, write all that a piece of paper to create a "bill", and turn it in to your NRCS office.

EQIP and WHIP are flat rate payment cost share programs (also federal compared to REAP being state). This means that no matter what it costs you to complete the project, you will receive a set per acre rate. Also, the foresters do no set the rates on the programs. A statewide committee meets annually to review the rates and adjust if necessary.

what's an aspen plan? r u in Iowa? Never heard of that before.

He is referring to the SWG projects that are going on in the NE four counties of Iowa. They are projects that primarily focus on cutting down aspen clones and letting them resprout to create good grouse habitat. It is a state cost share program and the rate is $200 per acre to complete the work.
 
You must keep track of the hours worked, apply that times an hourly rate, write all that a piece of paper to create a "bill", and turn it in to your NRCS office.
While techinacally that may be true...no one has EVER required any such thing (hours worked) on any REAP project I have ever worked on as a landowner or a contractor because it is impossible to prove and completely unenforceable. What is an hour worth??? One can write anything you wish to meet the full rate making it all a moot point. No one is punching a clock....I don't care what the "rules" may say....

Charge as much as it takes...as many hours as you wish...just make sure it's as much or more then the cost share allocated. Write up an invoice 10 hours per acre @ $16 an hour (for an example) or maybe it takes you 20 hours at $12 an hour...anyone who has ever marked and released trees knows it is difficult, time consuming and often dangerous work and that kind of work isn't "cheap"....;)

The following is an actual REAP cost share approval letter and they are the same regardless if the practice is TSI, tree planting, cost share cover or any other approved practices. You can see there is no mention of "hours"...only the cost of the project which is set and approved in this case by the forester.

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The forester keeps the projects from being "open ended" where someone might charge exorbitant rates...so if he/she feels it is a light release they may approve it at $140, 120 or even as low as $90 an acre of which the landowner receives 75% cost share. Now if a landowner wishes to submit a bill for 2 hours of work at $2.00 an hour...that is certainly their prerogative...;)

In regards to "hinging" not being eligible "hours"....that is nonsense....the Crop Tree Release plans call for a 4 sided release by either double girdling or falling trees so we can release the trees by which ever method is safe and appropriate.

I would also add that I have walked my completed projects with head forester Paul Tauke himself who had no problem with releasing trees via hinging. All I can say is keep it simple...bill for the maximum amount the forester allows and bill for Crop Tree Release including marking, inventory and releasing the trees.

Our Iowa District foresters are great hard working people on whom we must rely for information and professional help in managing our timber but each one is also an individual with his or her own thoughts an practices. Work with them, be respectful and understanding that their goals are not likely to be the same as yours.

In the event of conflict contact their supervisor Aaron Lumley aaron.lumley@dnr.iowa.gov or head forester Paul Tauke Paul.Tauke@dnr.iowa.gov
for help in resolving the problem and maintaining a good relationship with your forester.

There are rules to be followed...both in dealing with cost share programs and in timber stand improvement itself but as the old saying goes....there's more n one way to skin a cat....;)
 
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I guess I should state that when the forester said I couldn't include the bingeing trees in my hrs worked, he was referring to trees below the above canopy that were not actually hinder the crop trees.

The lady from the Nrcs did ask me what my time was worth at an hourly rate when we were out in the timber. I said probably not worth near as much out here as i am at my day job considering this is just a hobby. I think she was referring to that if I only charge $10 per hour I may be able to include my hinging time in the money allowed for the tsi, but if I charge $40 I couldn't as it would probably be higher than the money allowed for it.

I really didn't inquire to much about the money part as I consider whatever I get is a bonus anyways. Like said on here I will just turn in a bill for the highest amount allowed or even higher if I can. I will inquire more about it before I actually turn the bill in.
 
There is going to be an excellent field day covering a number of timber management topics at the Tom Fitzgerald farm in Tama County. I have walked Tom's property and he has some great habitat/timber improvements under way that make this an awesome place to get some ideas for your own property.

Managing Floodplain & Bottomland Forests
A Forestry Field Day Free and Open to All
Wednesday, April 4<sup>th</sup>, 2012
1:00 PM – 4:00 PM
Tama County --- Montour, Iowa
Attention landowners! This seminar is geared towards people who own timber or farm along river floodplains, but is open to anyone with an interest in Iowa forests and woodlands. Learn about maximizing profit, enhancing wildlife habitat, tree planting, and more.​

I. Logging & timber harvesting on floodplain forests:
· Are silver maple and cottonwood worth anything? How much could I make?
· How do I make sure I’m getting a good deal?
· Will logging mess up my woods?
II. Reforesting & tree planting on floodplains:
· Planting trees and natural reseeding
· How do I keep the deer away?
· What about flooding, reed canary grass, and weeds?
III. Other topics & examples:
· Thinning upland forests (25-year old CRP planting)
· Hinge-cutting trees for whitetail habitat

Details: This field day will involve a moderate hike on steep terrain --- attendees should wear boots and come prepared to hike. Restroom facilities are “natural.”

RSVP for location and rain/flood cancellation:
Joe Herring, DNR Forester 641-752-3352

Speakers:
Tom Fitzgerald, Tama County Landowner
Joe Herring, DNR Forester
Luke Squiers, Bonded Timber Buyer and Logger
Jesse Randall, ISU Forester
 
Took care of cutting down all my Aspen last weekend.

I started to mark trees this past weekend.

I have:
red oaks
white oaks
bunch of shag bark hickories
hackberry
cherry
iron wood
box elder
maple
Basswood (Very Little)
Elm

I started some marking this weekend.

I plan on taking everything down or girdling everything but the Cherry, any oaks, and the shag barks.

Couple of questions that I came up with.

Is there a very good market for cherry, elm or poplar?
Not enough good oaks to get rid of.

Are the Hackberry beneficial in any way or elms?

Gonna keep some shag barks just because I have nothing else (right now).

Talking with my biologist he said that I should stop cutting now and resume in April
after he sap keeps flowing??

Just wondering what advice I can get from everyone.

Thanks in advance.
 
I guess I would think it would be fine to keep cutting now, as I am, up until next weekend.

I tried to keep most of my really old shagbarks, but got rid of the small clumps of them and those about 20" around.

I also kept white and red oaks, and hinged alot of shingle oaks. The cherries were sacrificed in areas that they would not produce or those growing into a nice white oak, otherwise I left them.

I also took down all my hackberry's, although I do leave them if I have nothing else :)
 
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