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Timber Stand Improvment

hesseu said:
What's the average size area's y'all are doing? I am assuming you are doing it in pockets when I ask this question.
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You want to “cover it all” with “some sort of tsi”. Complex answer.... get a forestry plan if it’s urs. “Pockets” could mean you get more aggressive on a 1/10th acre on a south facing ridge for example. Or hinge cutting that. So- just for Deer - a good start might be picking some pockets on ridges like u said or tops- whatever.

Over the long run, u will want to implement a full tsi plan. Might be taking out invasives & thinning a crowded area with junk trees mixed with good ones. IMO- a “crop tree release” while thinning junk & invasives over the whole timber is reasonable answer for most folks. Every timbered area is so unique so get a forester out to discuss proper options & steps on ur land. State forester is free & set that meeting up!
 
The plan composed by my district forester identified six different areas on our 110 acres of timber. Sizes differ quite a bit and were determined based on the characteristics of each area (mature oak timber with minimal understory, storm damaged area or EAB damaged(Emerald Ash Bore) trees, a former pasture area with thicker mid-canopy with some invasive tree areas, etc). Our overall goal is a mix of timber value enhancement and improving wildlife browse.

The first area marked in Jan was 13 acres - about 50% thick understory area of locusts/honeysuckle thinning to release young walnuts/oaks and 50% more mature timber with some dead ash. Its a bit intimidating when taking on the task by yourself. I just try to be realistic about what I can safely accomplish each trip and know that its a 10 year journey on our farm. My goal this first year is to get through the worst 3-6 acres of the thick understory area but that may be optimistic.
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Working on 26.6 acres this winter.

Finding some good walnuts and swamp white oaks to release on the creek bottom.


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Sligh1 said:
You want to “cover it all” with “some sort of tsi”. Complex answer.... get a forestry plan if it’s urs. “Pockets” could mean you get more aggressive on a 1/10th acre on a south facing ridge for example. Or hinge cutting that. So- just for Deer - a good start might be picking some pockets on ridges like u said or tops- whatever.

Over the long run, u will want to implement a full tsi plan. Might be taking out invasives & thinning a crowded area with junk trees mixed with good ones. IMO- a “crop tree release” while thinning junk & invasives over the whole timber is reasonable answer for most folks. Every timbered area is so unique so get a forester out to discuss proper options & steps on ur land. State forester is free & set that meeting up!
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Agreed...We do heavier pockets more as "bedding" thickets, and are currently doing area's in between / next to them a little bit lighter. I am intrigued to hear peoples thought processes when tackling different projects.
 

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I like u all’s spacing. If u give a veneer walnut full total sun on trunk - not good (sends out sprouts) & I’ve had a few I opened up too Much. Above looks great. Crowns free but still a stocked forest.
If u wanna open a big area- all good - just don’t do it where u are totally opening up a veneer walnut or white oak for example.

& I’ll do some pics but I do pockets where just “open up half an acre” or hinge cut 1/10th acre.
above 2 posts look really good!!
 
All,
Started first TSI work this week. One oak/walnut area was pretty dense with tall junk trees to cut out. How do you fell your first few trees without getting them hung up? Thanks!

Chad


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chadw said:
All,
Started first TSI work this week. One oak/walnut area was pretty dense with tall junk trees to cut out. How do you fell your first few trees without getting them hung up? Thanks!

Chad


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Click to expand...
No real great answer to this.... sometimes you can't fell them, this is where double girdling comes into play...other times you have to set them up like dominos.....cut several trees in a row then your "last" one is used to push them all over....not really a "beginner" technique(not saying you are)...
And sometimes you just get hangers, its part of it...now make sure you know where they are and steer clear of them, but alot of times they find there way to ground eventually

And one thing to always keep in mind is when you go into a timber, have a plan...know what trees are being taken out, don't get yourself in a situation where you have to cut a tree that has a hanger stuck in it, NOT GOOD!!

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chadw said:
All,
Started first TSI work this week. One oak/walnut area was pretty dense with tall junk trees to cut out. How do you fell your first few trees without getting them hung up? Thanks!

Chad
Click to expand...

I don't think there is going to be an "always" answer on this. But I would try to plan it the best that you can and start dropping smaller trees first. That way, once you drop one and it doesn't fall all the way down, you can theoretically manhandle it and pull the stump end of the hung log enough that the branches above come loose and it falls.

There was one time that I just could not dislodge a hung tree so I left it and let the next high wind solve it...and it did. I don't like leaving a "trap" in the timber, but nature will fix it sooner or later too.
 
Free now!!!!
How old is that concordia there?!?! My guess is - that’s an impressive growth rate!!!
 
Seems to be different thoughts and philosophies out there on hinge cutting. Some say the deer prefer and want side cover so hinge the tree pretty low. Others will say that the deer like a canopy effect and will bed under neath so hinge higher up the tree (personally don’t like sawing at face level so I mostly stick to first opinion). For those here that have hinge cutting experience, as you go back in to these areas years later which philosophy have you noticed to be more “true”?
 
Rous14 said:
Seems to be different thoughts and philosophies out there on hinge cutting. Some say the deer prefer and want side cover so hinge the tree pretty low. Others will say that the deer like a canopy effect and will bed under neath so hinge higher up the tree (personally don’t like sawing at face level so I mostly stick to first opinion). For those here that have hinge cutting experience, as you go back in to these areas years later which philosophy have you noticed to be more “true”?
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I have gravitated towards hinge cutting at about waist level. The deer seem to bed in those areas just fine and I think that cut is a safer option than something at eye level. I can't say that I know it is best that way, only that it seems to work fine for me and I would prefer not to take unnecessary risks cutting junk trees for deer to lay under. :)
 
Rous14 said:
Seems to be different thoughts and philosophies out there on hinge cutting. Some say the deer prefer and want side cover so hinge the tree pretty low. Others will say that the deer like a canopy effect and will bed under neath so hinge higher up the tree (personally don’t like sawing at face level so I mostly stick to first opinion). For those here that have hinge cutting experience, as you go back in to these areas years later which philosophy have you noticed to be more “true”?
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I will hinge cut to edge feather and push deer to a certain path closer to stands. Beyond that, I'm not a huge fan of it. When I have used it, waist high.
 
Looks awesome!!! Very smart as well. Look at the ground starting out in that video- there’s about zero benefit to wildlife there Maybe some back cover to possibly bed around but that’s it. No good cover there or any browse what so ever. Ur new browse & oak regen should be great!!!
I’ve got the younger cedar thickets now that deer can’t even walk through. Gonna be time for a skid steer mulcher or chainsaw to thin these out.
looks really good!!!
 
IowaBowHunter1983 said:
TSI in the cedar wasteland day 2. Check out the difference!!!!

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Looks great! You mentioned running a fire through there, how long do you recommend waiting for that?

My Dad and I cut some cedars out of a large cedar thicket and it has some native grasses where sunlight currently hits the soil. We left them lay and were curious how long to wait to introduce fire. We are planning to continue to thin them out over time.
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deerhunter93 said:
Looks great! You mentioned running a fire through there, how long do you recommend waiting for that?

My Dad and I cut some cedars out of a large cedar thicket and it has some native grasses where sunlight currently hits the soil. We left them lay and were curious how long to wait to introduce fire. We are planning to continue to thin them out over time.
21ac9cf22ccab8d89f04c41e9f61393e.jpg
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I burned today. I'll post vid later. Used high wind to my advantage to get a very slow backburn
 
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