Tree Planting

[dbltree]

Hey TP...got some tree fence for ya!

No hurry...I don't think it's going anywhere!

Forgive my teasing...but Timberpig already knows the value of fencing your trees. For anyone that thinks it's not needed...this Blue Spruce is 14 paces from our house

It and several others were "trashed" Oct 1st 2 years ago...I was just about to get them fenced too..

This isn't a very good pic, but it shows a white pine in an "understory" situation where I planted some along an "edge". I kept the "stuff" cleared away the first few years but now they are rising above it. The deer don't seem to bother them if they can't just walk across my lawn and give them a thrashing

 

[bowmaker]

On the subject of red cedars has anyone ran into a problem with them on CRP acres? I have just been informed that I must remove several hundred volunteer cedar trees from my CRP acres which the FSA has not allowed me to mow for 10 years. As I understand the new regulations they say that you must therotecialy be able to farm the ground with regular farm equipment for it to be eligable for a 5 year extension. I don't understand why on some acres they encourage tree planting and on others require removal of voluenteer trees which add both cover and erossion control. Talk about an aching back. I was told that I need to cut these trees out rather than brush cut them during the nesting season which runs through August, and the ground need to be inspected and paper work final by the 1st of September. I just wondered if any one else had ran into this problem?

 

[Skully]

Bowmaker, I was given permission to "spot mow" my volunteer trees after the May 15th mowing deadline. Just go to your F.S.A. office and fill out a paper and you're good to go. You should have been able to do some "Mid Contract Management" during your first 10 year contract. In fact, as far as I knew, it was mandatory to do either mowing, burning or light disking and interseeding sometime during the ten years. There use to be cost share for such up keep, but as of late that's not been the case. I have found on my property that the CRP acres need to be mowed about every two years to keep up with the battle on volunteer trees. Spraying is also an option but much more expensive. Good luck.

 

[Daver]

Ah yes, my favorite subject!!!

I got a similar letter a month or so ago and let's just say that there were more than a few trees in my CRP acres. My ground was in its' second 10 year period and had never been touched. So I had 18 years worth of trees out there and some of the birch trees were approaching 20' tall. I had zillions of cedars and shingle oaks, etc, in the 4' to 12' range.

So between hand removal via chain saw, brush cutting mowing and a little bit of bull dozing, I am about 10 pounds and $3200 lighter, but they are all gone now. I was displeased because I had specifically asked about this multiple times and was assured that the trees were just "more cover for the wildlife", "no problem", etc, and then the "letter" arrived.

I applied for an extension and a short term waiver to mow during the nesting season. I am in Davis County BTW, the FSA Office there is now well familiar with this issue and I would not anticipate you having a problem getting permission to mow now, etc. At least one of the staff members in the Bloomfield FSA office was similarly surprised by this new ruling.

I will say that the place looks 100% better now and I had places that were so thick that it really needed to be cleared. I just wish they would have been clear and consistent in the first place and not springing surprises on folks.

Oh, I did have the bull dozer clear me about 3 additional acres for food plots in the timber AND made a nice little watering pond that I am quite certain will be a royal hot spot for deer and turkey.

 

[TimberPig]

Thanks for the fence offer Dbl, but I think you can keep that mess.

My protected pines are really taking off this year now that they have established roots. Some of my 3 year old White pines have put on 2' of new growth this spring.

 

[dbltree]

Just a reminder that you can start placing tree orders for fall and/or spring planting thru the State Forest Nursery:

Tree Orders


For any of you that have ground already enrolled in the CRP program, you should be aware that you can convert any or all of your contract to a tree planting. You would still be elgible for 50% cost share and the payments and length of the contract stays the same.

If you are interested in planting a "screen" along the road, or establishing a hardwood plot in the "back 40"...this is a great way to improve your property and get paid for it at the same time.

Many people believe that they are not able to change an existing contract so I thought I would pass this along.

You can contact your local NRCS office or the Trees for CRP Program at the Pathfinders Resource Conservation and Development office:

Ph. (641) 472-6177

jbpath@lisco.com

 

[dbltree]

I recently stopped by Red Fern Farm near Grandview (between Muscatine and Burlington) to pick up some chestnut trees I had ordered.

There I met owner Tom Wahl and talked trees for some time with him. I can tell you he is a wealth of information! He has a small "backyard" nursery and heads up the Iowa Chestnut Growers Co-op. as well as growing and harvesting chestnuts on his property.

Planting trees is a good thing, planting trees that are a food source for wildlife is a better thing and planting trees that can yield $2000 to $8000 per acre is a fantastic thing!

Tom's nursery produces chestnuts, persimmons, pawpaws, liberty apples, asian pears and hybrid hazels, all of which both humans and wildlife love.

My interest in chestnuts stems back to helping NWTF chapters establish tree plantings and blight resistant chestnuts were high on the list.

Chestnut trees (long before any of us) were the favored mast tree by most all wildlife, especially turkeys and deer. If you think deer love acorns, you ought to see how they love chestnuts!

I'm not trying to convince any of you to plant them only passing on information, because after learning more about them....I plan on planting a good many of them!

Take the time to read Toms "Chestnut Primer" and if at all possible attend the Field Day on Sept 30th at his place.

Chestnut trees grown using tree tubes and weed mats are producing (in SE Iowa) in as little as 4 years! Compare that to any oak tree...

Yields can run from 1000# to 2000#'s per acre at $2 to 4.50 a pound! If you have CRP ground it is an easy thing to convert a few or many acres to tree plantings and get cost share to boot.

Stop by and visit with Tom no matter if you need a couple trees or plan on planting the back 40.

Red Fern Farm

Chestnut Primer

Red Fern Field day

Cost Share Programs

Chestnuts grow the best in tree tubes, but they must be VENTED You can use a 3/8 drill bit and drill holes in the tubes if you buy unvented.

Tree shelters

Tree tubes and mats

Tom sells out of most of his stock by the first of the year, so I order early and send him a deposit to hold my trees.
He will have persimmons this coming spring as well.

I planted chestnuts and liberty apple trees the other day and following his advice, here's a run down on proper planting:


Check proper planting depth using pot for ref., loosen soil as far as you wish. Width isn't important but depth is.

Each tree will send a single root straight down, while all others will extend away from the tree in all directions.

Depth is extremely important! DO NOT plant deeper then the trees current growing depth. Many are tempted to plant " just a little deeper"...bad idea! <img src="http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Fill in hole with loosened soil to the top of potted soil:

It's best to leave a slight "dish" around the base of the tree to trap water:

If at all possible, compost around the tree rather then amend the soil in the hole. If sphagnum moss or other amendments are used the roots will tend to curl back the hole rather then to extend out.

Worms will carry nutrients downward from the compost loosening the soil and holding moisture. Use caution not to let the compost touch the base of the tree itself.

 

[dbltree]

I was looking for some options regarding tree tubes. I also like the concept of growing chestnuts.

I have used the TreePro shelters (although I'm not sure "brand" matters) and I know that weed control is critical because mice love to chew thru them and make a nice little home inside...while feasting on the bark of your new seedling

If grass and weeds are killed by herbicide or weed mat then they aren't a problem. One also needs to open them some in early fall to allow the trees to harden off before severe cold weather.
Growth is amazing when they are used properly!

If you read Tom's info on chestnuts, there are varieties better suited for northern areas. We can plant less hardy types down here in the "garden belt"

 

[ibohunt65]

I'll second that!!

I planted 50 chestnut trees that I bought from Tom this spring and used the tree tubes and mats. About a third of the trees have already grown out the top of the 4 ft tubes. I really like the idea of planting a tree that will provide food for wildlife and an income potential every year as well. And unlike walnuts, you don't have to cut the tree down to secure good income. Cannot go wrong with chestnuts. I'll post some pics later. I'll also be planting more this next spring. They are a little pricey and require a day of hard work, but I think in the end it'll all be worth it. I burned the area first and then planted. here is the pic.

After planting about 4,000 trees on my place by hand over the years, I would recommend guys buying fewer trees and using tubes. The trees will grow faster and you won't lose hardly any trees to mice, voles, rabbits, or deer. If you're going to spend the time and money on the trees, spend the extra money on the tubes. You'll be much happier in the end.

 

[letemwalk]

I like the idea of chestnuts too and I had planned to plant them in my CRP - was informed that chestnuts were considered an "ornamental" and would not be an approved species to plant in CRP...Apparently our forestry folks think only in terms of lumber with respect to approved species...at least that was my experience/observation.

 

[dbltree]

I like the idea of chestnuts too and I had planned to plant them in my CRP - was informed that chestnuts were considered an "ornamental" and would not be an approved species to plant in CRP...Apparently our forestry folks think only in terms of lumber with respect to approved species...at least that was my experience/observation.

I just recieved a letter from Patfinders RC&D to all the SE Iowa Landowners that in cooperation with the NRCS in Fairfield they are offering the oppurtunity to establish trees on CRP ground. (changing your current CRP status to a hardwood planting)

Trees For CRP is a recently funded temporary program that has cost share assistance available up to 75% or $365 per acre for site prep, tree planting and maintenance.

This program or some semblenace of it is most likely available thruout Iowa but I would check with your NRCS office to be sure.

IF you have land in CRP and you are intrested in converting as little as an acre (there is no maximum amount) I would get on the band wagon while this is available.

If one has trees that need to be removed to be compliant then this is a great program that will allow you to keep it in trees!

If you want to plant a "poacher screen" along the road, add some mast producing trees in a corner of the back 40...or plant the whole darn place to trees...now is your chance!

There are minimum amounts of trees per acre and you can plant up to 50% conifers in a hardwood planting to act as "trainers".

Now... listen up people don't ever be misled into assuming or thinking that in ANY case you must MIX prairie grasses or TREES just because you are required to plant certain species!! In otherwords you can plant switchgrass one place and Big bluestem another...or Bur oak one place and red oak another...they don't have to be mixed...just the fact that a greater number of species are planted on your CRP acreage.

In the case of trees, you may not convince them to pay for chestnuts...however you can plant them in your planting. You may have to add them after the fact but most likely the planting crew will plant whatever you have for them...the NRCS just may not pay for the seedlings them selves.

You can order trees from whomever you choose and if you get trees from Red Fern Farm...I'm sure Tom will be happy to give you a receipt for "hardwood seedlings"

You can specify to the forester what you want where but if you are not there when they plant...it's hard to say what you will end up with

At any rate...plant the minimum required hardwoods (oaks preferably) with red cedar trainers and add chestnuts (if you desire)as a row or a percentage of the total trees.

Here is an example...if you want to plant a "screen" along the road that will consist of 4 rows, plant 2 rows of red cedars (50% of trees) then 2 rows of 3 species of hardwoods. Purchase the minimum number of oaks and fill in with chestnuts, persimmons, paw paws etc....you can also go back and thin oaks and add other species.

The main thing is to get the CRP income, get the cost of planting and herbicide paid for as well as mowing between the rows.

Contact Lisa Phillips at (641)472-6177 ext 101 or email at detra.dettmann@ia.usda.gov

Pathfinders RC&D

More links:

IDNR links

More cost share links

FSA Link

This is what you convert to:

CP3A - Hardwood tree planting.
Mixed stand (3 or more species) of hardwood species best suited for wildlife in the area.

Don't ever assume...not even for a moment...that the people you talk to know all the rules because they change like the wind. I'm not for breaking rules...but sometimes...bending them slightly, because I know in my heart that any mast producing tree that is non-invasive...is a good thing for our environment and wildlife, regardless if it is on someones "list" or not.....

If you decide to enroll in a CRP tree planting and it matters to you which trees are planted where and how...email me for advice because I've been thru the school of hard knocks on this deal

dbltree2000@yahoo.com

 

[dbltree]

How does this factor in for those of us who have just re-enrolled our C.R.P. acres for another 10 years? Do you have to remove the tree planting acres from the contract? I would love to have more trees on my place but don't want to loose the C.R.P. benefits

.



That's the beauty of this deal...no matter if you have 2 years or ten years left on your current contract...you can convert any portion to a tree planting.

You still get paid the same per acre rental rate as you are now, for the length of the contract.

You gain the 75% cost share to plant the trees...that's the big plus!

The only drawback is that once you do that...it can't be extended when the contract ends...of course it's very doubtful right now that we will even have a CRP program in 10 years

The Farm Bureau has already voted to lobby to end the CRP program...

 

[dbltree]

That was another question of mine. How many years can you have your land in C.R.P before they put you out? I will feel lucky if it stays in for the next ten I guess. I have visions of some pine groves and fruit trees up behind the pond. The "poacher screen" idea sounds great too. My ratty mullberry fence row may have to go!

Thanks for the link Dbltree, I have a letter coming from Pathfinders. P.S. what is a "trainer"?

The CRP program is very political and it exisits largely because of the efforts of groups such as Pheasants Forever (and many others).

How long it continues depends on who wins the battle between conservation groups and farm and agri-business interests.

There is simply no way to know. If you recently signed it up for another 10 years...I wouldn't hold my breath for another one...but I could be wrong as rain

A trainer is a term used to describe trees used to force timber type trees to grow straight and limbless for quality timber.

Of course foresters are thinking in terms of lumber (nothing wrong with that) while we may be thinking more in terms of wildlife.

We can have both, but we just may use our imagination to make it work more for wildlife food and cover.

Normally conifers would be spaced on either side of a hardwoods, with trees offset (imagine a checkerboard)

Such a planting might be fine for a back forty planting, but for a screen...just plant the "trainers" all on one side.

I took the time to draw up specific written "plans" on what I wanted planted where. However the planting crew just planted helter skelter what ever they happened to grab a sack full of...so anyone planning a planting for next spring, keep that in mind.

There are ways to make sure that type of thing doesn't happen...I was just foolish enough to trust people...

 

[dbltree]

I am excited about next springs possibilities. I will have all winter to draw up a plan, and will probably do the planting myself so I don't have to wonder what got planted where. Will they actually pay a landowner for his own labor, or do you have to be a certified tree planter?

You can do the work yourself, including spraying, mowing etc. You should be able to borrow/rent a tree planter like the one in the beginning of this post.

You'll have to check with them of course as far as all the current rules and what reciepts, etc. are required.

You can also "test" them and see what kind of trees are required, number of trees per acre (min./max)etc., etc.

After hunting season you may want to take a road trip and take a look at mine for ideas, do's and don'ts.

 

[ibohunt65]

Be sure to include Swamp white oaks. They grow fast, can handle flooding,the deer leave them alone, and a few of mine have produced acorns in only 6 years after planting.

Just make sure you protect the tree from mice and rabbits for the first two years.

Here is a photo of my first tree planting of oaks done in 1998. The swamp white oaks outgrew all the other oaks because the deer did not eat the tops of them. The pin oaks and burr oaks have struggled while the swamp white oaks have done really well.

The pictures go 2001, 2002, 2004, 2006

 

[dbltree]

Good article in the paper about Red Fern Farm and chestnut trees in Iowa.

Chestnut Trees

 

[dbltree]

Re: Tree Planting - all about tree tubes

Where would someone pic up these tree tubes.
I need about 3000 of them for the trees I just planted last spring.

Havent had hardly any problems with stuff eating them off because they are very well protected by weeds at this point. But the snow hasnt fallen yet and food isnt that scarce.

Red Fern Farm has links to several tree tube products and thoughts about them.

I have used tree pro brand myself with good results, but there are many options.

Red Fern Farm

Tree shelters

Using Trees Shelters on Oak Hardwoods

Tree tubes and mats

Tubex® Tree Shelters

Plantra Tree Tubes

ItascaGreenhouse Tubes and Supplies

Tree Tube Pics

Tree Protection Supplies

Treessentials Company

Compare Tubes

Remember to use perforated tubes and many drill addtional holes with a 5/16 to 3/8 drill bit to allow hardening off in the fall.

In solid tubes trees will stay "warm and cozy" and then end up being killed when a sudden severe cold spell hits.

Check back a page or two for thoughts from others on using tube shelters also...great tool for protecting and enhancing tree growth!

 

[dbltree]

On the subject of fencing I took a few pics the other day...

The little Red Cedars are tough little buggers! I sprayed around them once and then they "got forgot"

they sure do turn red this time of year! I walked the rows and I don't think hardly a single one died

They can "take a lickin' and keep on tickin'"

On my place at least, deer never bother them nor do rabbits

Can't say the same for my Norway Spruce

This is an 8 yr old Sawtooth Oak

You can see why I say that fruit trees may have to be fenced quite possibly forever, depending on the size of the trunk.

It is a bit of irony that that the very animals we seek to attract would in turn wreak such havoc on the food sources we provide for them

 

[150 Class]

I enjoy the trees most of all. They will provide for wildlife for the rest of my life, and if the dozers stay away, for long after I'm gone.

I do agree with this. The sooner you start, the more you will be able to see down the road what good you have done. Kids, get your parents to help do some of this. Parents and grandparents, take your kids and grandkids out and plant some trees. Seedlings from the state forestry delivered to your door are a great way to get started. Planting mast producing trees from seed works well too (such as planting that tiny acorn that may one day turn into a majestic oak).

I know it has been posted before in this thread but the link to the DNR seedlings is attached here again.

DNR Tree Order Form

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I know it has been posted before in this thread but the link to the DNR seedlings is attached here again.
DNR Tree Order Form </div></div>



Preparation for spring tree planting should be underway if your planning on putting new trees in the ground this year. IDNR Private Assistance

Creating wildlife habitat

One thing to consider when ordering seedlings is that larger seedlings often suffer higher mortality and lower survivability then younger smaller seedlings. Often people assume that older seedlings will do better but more then often this is not the case.

A friend of mine who is signing up for the CRP tree planting program said “well I have until June to get them planted”….that may be true, but seedlings will arrive in early April depending on weather and soil conditions. Nurseries will prepare dormant seedlings for shipment asap in the spring and you must be prepared to plant them when they arrive.

New seedlings can be “heeled” in temporarily by spreading the seedlings out (cut the strings on the bunches) in a trench and cover them with soil until you are ready to plant.

Still, the seedlings should be planted as soon as possible after arrival and before they break dormancy.

It’s also important to spray herbicides before trees break dormancy to prevent injury to trees. Most large scale plantings will require “over the top” spraying right after planting. Established plantings should also be sprayed in early spring before grass and weeds start to grow and trees are still dormant.

In the case of smaller plantings, a backpack sprayer can be used and spray directed around the base of the seedling rather then over the top which allows one to spray a little later in the spring.

Be prepared by understanding which herbicides are best for you and having them on hand by late March. If your planting by hand then band spraying could be done before planting but mechanical planting will disturb to much soil requiring spraying after planting.

There are a number of options when it comes to herbicides but one thing is certain…if you want high survival rates and fast growth of your new tree planting, spend the extra dollars for weed control!

Keep in mind you will be band spraying each row 3-4 feet wide, so some math is required to come up with “an acre” of trees. 3’ x 1320’ (1/4 mile)=3960 x 4 rows = 15,840 sq. ft.

43,560 sq. ft per acre means that in this case the required herbicide is little more then a 1/3 of an acre! When a herbicide costs $40-80 per acre it is actually covering an awful lot of trees!!

Rates per acre vary depending on soil type with heavier clay type soils requiring higher rates then sandy loamier soils.

Princep 4L (simazine) is a fairly safe pre-emergent herbicide that can be mixed with other herbicides such as Surflan and Oust. It is applied at 2-4 quarts per acre. Costs $9-18 per acre.

Oust Extra (sulfometuron + metsulfuron) is applied at 4-5 ounces per acre an acts as both a pre-and post emergent. Costs run $40-50 per acre. Oust is a Restricted Use Pesticide requiring a Pesticide Applicators license to purchase.

Fusilade (fluazifop-P butyl) is applied at 16-24 ounces per acre and runs $12-16 per acre. Fusilade is a post-emergent herbicide that works best on actively growing grasses. It is safe for a very long list of trees and shrubs.

Surflan AS (oryzalin) is a pre-emergent herbicide that is also safe for a long list of trees and shrubs. Apply at 3-4 quarts per acre at a cost of $75 to 100 per acre.

Pendulum herbicide is not effective against turfgrasses such as fescue but can be combined with Oust for instance for season long control and is safe for a large number of trees and shrubs.

Herbicides

This is a must read! IDNR Weed Control Guide

Iowa Tree Planting

A few things to consider....

Red Cedars while not the prettiest tree, has one of the highest survival rates in tree plantings. It will provide the greatest benefits in a wildlife oriented planting as far as shelter, bedding area and even a food source for birds, of any conifer that one can plant.

If your planning a hardwood planting, look for fast growing hybrid oaks and chestnuts that can provide mast in as little as 4-6 years.

Your shrub selection should be native species that are not considered invasive. Natives

IDNR Shrub list

Other seedling sources:

Coldstream Farms

Red Fern Farm Chestnuts, apples, pears, persimmons and paw paws

Oikos Tree Crops Hybrid oaks