Tree Planting

[SDHunt24/7]

if your careful...almost anything!

I like the gly/simazine/prowl combination but you can make that even safer by using the following mixture now that trees have leaved out.

8 ounces clethodim, 1 quart crop oil, 2/4 quarts simazine, 2/4 quarts prowl per acre. Use the lower rates on sandy soils, higher rates on clay...:way:

My solo BP sprayer is a 4 gallon capacity. Just to be sure I am right I put the clethodim, crop oil, and 2 quarts simazine, 2 quarts prowl all in the tank and then just fill the rest with water? I have never used the sprayer yet, seems like a pretty potent mix for 4 gallons of water, but I trust the experts. This should spray about an acre roughly? Spraying around trees this should cover quite a few of them I assume? Thanks.

 

[SDHunt24/7]

The local CO-OP has Volunteer. Can I use this for the clethodim in your mix Doubletree? It is cheaper than ordering Select or Arrow somewhere else.

 

[dbltree]

The local CO-OP has Volunteer. Can I use this for the clethodim in your mix Doubletree? It is cheaper than ordering Select or Arrow somewhere else.

Absolutely! Clethodim is clethodim as long as the active ingredient % is the same and it is in Volunteer.

My solo BP sprayer is a 4 gallon capacity. Just to be sure I am right I put the clethodim, crop oil, and 2 quarts simazine, 2 quarts prowl all in the tank and then just fill the rest with water? I have never used the sprayer yet, seems like a pretty potent mix for 4 gallons of water, but I trust the experts. This should spray about an acre roughly? Spraying around trees this should cover quite a few of them I assume? Thanks

My 3 gallon covers roughly a 1/2 acre so your 4 gallon a tad more but be mindful of standing there "soaking" things down rather then walking at an even speed...may not hurt anything but obviously heavier amounts could be applied around the base of a tree where one focuses on a given area.

If the mic is applied to the area around the tree and not over the top, it shouldn't bother trees in the least...all of mine are alive and kickin...:way:

 

[SDHunt24/7]

Thanks again. Helpful as always

 

[dbltree]

I used the simazine/prowl/glyphosate mix around my trees this spring including all my fruit trees and it's interesting to note that this combination is powerful enough to kill grasses in my lawn simply by being "washed" downhill by heavy rainfall.

Unlike Oust, these herbicides would not generally be considered a "contact" kill herbicide but rather a residual pre-emergence action yet they obviously did kill the grasses through root absorption. 2 quarts each of simazine and prowl along with a quart of gly is a pretty powerful and potent combination in only 3 gallons of water in a Solo BP sprayer yet even newly planted apple and pear trees are completely unaffected .

It will be interesting to see if the control is season long and if ALL weeds and grasses are controlled but for now....everything but the tree is stone cold dead....

 

[SDHunt24/7]

Those trees look great! What a stand it will be some day. Those are apple/pear?

 

[dbltree]

Those trees look great! What a stand it will be some day. Those are apple/pear?

Mostly apple with some pear trees mixed in...

 

[dbltree]

Red Cedars sprayed (around not over the top) with gly, simazine and prowl

I sprayed with Oust and simazine last year and had a mess of pigweed explode! Prowl controls pigweed so we'll see how we fare this year...

Yesterday I sprayed simazine and prowl with no gly added around and over the top of some oaks. Neither of those herbicides is known for post emergence control without adding crop oil but after seeing the effects on areas where it "ran" I wanted to give it a shot. Trees are already leafed out and growing so not safe for gly or Oust over the top, no grasses present or I would have added clethodim.

I'll check on the effects in a week or so....

 

[dbltree]

June 19th, 2011

In a perfect world...the best, most effective time/way to control weeds in a tree planting is to apply herbicides in late March to early April while trees are dormant and weeds have not emerged. Unfortunately that doesn't always work out when time and weather prevent the application of herbicides before bud break.

I finally had time to some spraying caught up in a hardwood/conifer/shrub planting this past week...a far more difficult job when many trees are hidden below a mass of weeds but also still possible. Glyphosate is out this time of year because unless trees are covered, even a slight unexpected breeze can cause wind drift and a fatal mist of herbicide to a few leaves on a seedling tree.

Instead I use heavier rates of crop oil which can indeed burn tree leaves but unless given a full load over the top, unlikely to cause severe injury. I always use a 3 gallon Solo backpack sprayer and taking my time, I direct spray around and not over young trees this time of year. I cleaned house, so to speak and emptied nearly every herbicide jug getting the job done but that will allow me to compare and then share results of different combinations and rates.

The following are the herbicides and surfactants I used in different combinations and amounts on emerged weeds, primarily broadleaves. I have used Oust on these trees for nearly three years so grasses are a non-factor at this point.

Princep 4l (Simazine) mixed at 1 and 2 quarts in my 3 gallon BP sprayer

Atrazine 4l mixed at same rates as Princep

Surflan (oryzalin) at 1-2 quarts per sprayer load (sprays orange)

Stealth (Pendimethalin, Pendulum, Prowl) at 1-2 quarts per sprayer load (sprays yellow)

Oust XP...used ONLY on cedars and oaks and at very light rates of 1/2 ounce per sprayer mix. Oust can cause severe injury to any trees when combined with crop oil and sprayed over the top so I used extreme caution to NOT allow it to get on tree leaves.

Clethodim at 8 ounces per sprayer mix only where grasses were present

I used a concentrated crop oil in ALL herbicide mixes to act as a burn down for emerged weeds. It's not as effective of course as using gly but then next best option without danger of killing trees. 8 ounces per mix would be normal but I used double that to burn down weeds.

In the past Oust XP has controlled 100% of all grasses and weeds except...for pigweed. Pendulum (prowl) is better suited for pigweed control so I'll compare the different treatments and rates and report back the results this summer....

 

[letemgrow]

Thanks for all the info you provide Paul....I learn something new everyday!!

 

[dbltree]

Thanks for all the info you provide Paul....I learn something new everyday!!

Right back at ya Phil...we appreciate all of your help and input on this forum...:way:

I wondered why the 4 year old shrubs in a friends tree planting are barely a foot tall but closer inspection reveals severe browsing!

Every plant regardless of specie has been heavily browsed despite being right next to a road!

The oak trees have fared better but many of them have also been heavily browsed

We tried the Rigid Tree Protectors on many of the oaks but were disappointed when most of the trees quickly grew right thru the side leaving them completely exposed and vulnerable to browsing

Almost without fail, every single tree grew out through the side

the only thing we have found that really works is a tree tube, preferably 5'...or fencing when feasible.

Even with lots of great food available, whitetails need plenty of browse in their gut every day and in late winter when food sources become scarce tender trees and shrubs become tasty choices for hungry deer. Be cognizant of this when doing a planting where relatively high deer densities exist. TSI and hinge cutting to create more natural browse does help but in this case despite having done that deer are still decimating this fairly large tree planting.

Planting fewer trees but using tree tubes and or fencing is often better then a mass planting that may end up being destroyed by the very deer you hoped the trees would help....

 

[SDHunt24/7]

if your careful...almost anything!

I like the gly/simazine/prowl combination but you can make that even safer by using the following mixture now that trees have leaved out.

8 ounces clethodim, 1 quart crop oil, 2/4 quarts simazine, 2/4 quarts prowl per acre. Use the lower rates on sandy soils, higher rates on clay...:way:

Dbltree: I used this mix a couple weeks back around my first and second year trees. My dad, who lives back home near our property, said that it didn't have much effect on the brome grass which is quite tall at this point. Any ideas?

 

[dbltree]

8 ounces clethodim, 1 quart crop oil, 2/4 quarts simazine, 2/4 quarts prowl per acre. Use the lower rates on sandy soils, higher rates on clay...:way:

Dbltree: I used this mix a couple weeks back around my first and second year trees. My dad, who lives back home near our property, said that it didn't have much effect on the brome grass which is quite tall at this point. Any ideas?

It can take 2-3 weeks for clethodim to kill mature cool season grasses so I suspect the brome may still die. I have never seen any grass survive 8 ounces of clethodim applied with crop oil. If you don't get a satisfactory kill however you might try 1 ounce of Oust XP with crop oil using care to direct spray around the base of trees (use on oaks and conifers only)


Herbicide update... July 4th, 2011

Oaks and red cedars treated with 2 ounces of Oust XP in early April....still clean and weed free

It makes a big difference if weed control is done early, before weeds and grasses make finding seedlings difficult.

Sometimes however weather and time don't allow us to get the job done on time so I did some experimenting with various amounts of different combinations of herbicides after weeds were 2-3' tall in mid June. Trees of course were fully leafed out making the use of glyphosate impossible. I used simazine and Surflan and simazine and Prowl at rates of 1 to 2 quarts each combined with 1 quart of concentrated crop oil and ALL weeds were killed stone cold dead!

This is a week after spraying

and this is the tree planting now about 2 weeks after spraying

I did add a 1/2 ounce Oust XP on the oaks only but weed kill was the same with or with out it

Some over spray onto the leaves of shrubs and trees was inevitable but the worst thing that happened was some spotting or browning of the leaves where the crop oil landed, but no overall adverse affects to the trees themselves. I did direct spray around the seedlings rather then spray over the top to avoid any unnecessary stress to trees.

Oust XP often keeps grasses from coming back for several years but broadleaf weeds may reappear with a vengeance. Simazine (Princep) and Prowl/Stealth can be very effective in providing season long control and ca provide post emergence control with the addition of crop oil.

On most soils 1 quart each of simazine, prowl and crop oil in a 3 gallon BP sprayer should kill emerged weeds and provide season long control, heavier soils slightly more, lighter soils slightly less....

 

[letemgrow]

The only way to keep the trees from growing through the rigid tubes is to spin the tube on a bi-weekly basis. This keeps the growth inside the tube, yet allows it to continue to grow up. Its not ideal tho, but works.

Before the spin:

After the spin:

 

[spltbrow]

Planning on planting a screen in the spring consisting of some shrubs and conifers. It will be 3 rows wide and about 1600 feet long boardering a switch field that i will be frost seeding. What do i need to do this year in preperation for spring? Do i need to kill everything this year? Also is there any type of pre emergant i can put down to help controle future weeds that will not affect the new plantings? Is frost seeding clover whare i will be planting and just mowing a good idea?

 

[dbltree]

Planning on planting a screen in the spring consisting of some shrubs and conifers. It will be 3 rows wide and about 1600 feet long bordering a switch field that i will be frost seeding. What do i need to do this year in preparation for spring? Do i need to kill everything this year? Also is there any type of pre emergent i can put down to help control future weeds that will not affect the new plantings? Is frost seeding clover where i will be planting and just mowing a good idea?

You don't have to kill the entire area....I just spray bands roughly 3' wide on rows 8-10' apart. Use 1-2 quarts of glyphosate, 1 ounces of Oust Xp and a quart of crop oil for good measure and you'll nuke everything in those bands.

Next spring use 1-2 quarts each of Simazine and prowl per acre and you'll have season long control :way:

 

[spltbrow]

Would i spray the simozine and prowl before planting shrubs and conifers

 

[dbltree]

Would i spray the simozine and prowl before planting shrubs and conifers

You can but I do it right after planting as long as trees are still dormant...pretty safe herbicides :way:

 

[dbltree]

Herbicide update September 13th, 2011

Follow up on the effectiveness of some herbicide combinations I used to both burn down weds post emergence but also control them for the duration of the growing season. Because the trees were leafed out and growing I could not use glyphosate and because shrubs tend to be sensitive to Oust I only used Out on oaks and conifers.

On oaks and conifers I used 1 quart crop oil, 2 quarts Prowl (Pendulum) and 2 quarts Princep (Simazine) and 1/2 ounce Oust all mixed in a 3 1/2 gallon Solo BP sprayer. I only sprayed a narrow band because milo was planted between the tree rows so the weed free area is clearly visible. All spray was directed below the leaves of the growing trees but some drift occurred which caused minor and temporary burning due to the crop oil.

Oaks

Conifers

I used several combinations on the shrubs including 2 quarts atrazine and 2 quarts Surflan (oryzalin) also with 1 quart of crop oil for burn down and I found no major difference between simazine and atrazine or prowl and surflan when used at heavier rates although Prowl was less expensive and appeared more effective at burning down weeds and controlling pigweed.

The shrubs are healthy and weed free at end of summer

Obviously they best bet is to spray while trees are dormant and the best time to use Oust is the fall before planting when combined with glyphosate and crop oil it will kill ALL perennial grasses. After that simazine and Prowl will effectively do the job in controlling annual weeds and grasses without worry about causing harm to Oust sensitive trees an shrubs including apple trees.

At low rates Oust will rarely cause problems to most shrubs but applying herbicides with a BP sprayer is not an exact science so use it without fear on oaks and conifers but to be safe I would use Princep and Prowl on the other species.

I also used only 1 quart of simazine and 1 quart of Prowl on some areas and still had pretty good control so depending on soils you may experiment with rates but at no point did higher rates cause any harm at all to the trees and shrubs.

Most ag co-op's can order simazine and pendulum (Princep and Prowl) which comes in 2 1/2 gallon containers but in some cases they require you buy a case (5 gallons). A case of each cost me $350 total but of course covers a lot of trees and both products will keep for years on the shelf.

If you unable to find them locally Keystone Pest Solutions carries all of these herbicides including Oust which is sold under the generic name Spyder.

Keystone Pest Solutions

Use their search option to find all of the herbicides mentioned, many of which will be generic versions that are equally as effective. They are a little expensive to ship so always check locally but sometimes ordering online may be your only option...

 

[gahartman]

Wow what a summer it has been! Crazy to think that fall is upon us, the weather is turning cool and the acorns are starting to fall. I have been busy all summer getting our trees planted - about 10,000 in total. Put 18 acres into shelterbelts through the NRCS. We also dabbled with some oak trees. In all we put in about 200 - a combination of bur, dco, bur-gamble, bur-english, and schuettes. All are doing well so far so hopefully they will make it through the rest of the fall and into winter. I was wondering what other types of oaks you guys would recommend for me in south central south dakota(zone 5). I was also wondering if anybody had any acorns that they collected yet this year or knew of any that they thought would be good to grow. I would like to try to grow my own, we only bought seedlings this year. I would defiantly be willing to pay shipping costs and hopefully in a while will have my own acorns to share with others. Let me know if you have any or know of where a guy can get some. Thanks for all the great info that you guys share with others, such a great site.

Thanks, Greg