Tree Planting

[dbltree]

I am hoping to switch over to seeds exclusively after this year instead of bare root seedlings.

That's something I would like to learn more about so from time to time, please share more about seeds and acorns, direct seeding and starting in containers.

 

[letemgrow]

I have never seen such extensive root systems as I have achieved with air root pruning. I planted some illinois bundleflower, beauty berry, walnuts, buttonbushes and some apple trees in them. I should have taken pics of their root systems in the 5-gallon pots...PHENOMINAL!!!! I also planted some of the beautyberries in july when it was hot and dry and they were only watered once every couple weeks. Those particular ones came out of 4 inch pots and have very vast root systems for their size and they all lived.

You could not do that with a transplanted seedling I guarantee that much. I will have to take some pics this spring of the work. I am going to plant some shumark oak acorns, persimmons, eastern wahoo, paw paws, downy hawthorne, downy serviceberry and walnuts in the air pruning containers and see how they work.

 

[Sligh1]

FOLKS- not trying to compare the two BUT, if you want the MOST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK, I'd really look at the apple/pear tree post. For $500 you could get 35-50 production grade, grafted trees that are 5-6 feet tall. You will have fruit in a couple years and could probably pull the fence down in 6-8 (it goes by FAST!!!!). Compare this to $500 for about 1,000 seedlings- if you're buying them for food, it could be more than 20 years.

NOW, I am 100% all for little trees, (I plant from acorns/seeds often!!) AND much of what I plant is for COVER as well. You'd be CRAZY to only do ONLY one or the other though between big fruit trees and small food/cover trees.

What I'm saying is, keep planting tons of the seedlings for many many reasons!!! (cedars, oaks, shrubs, etc) BUT, take a real hard look at getting some apple and pear trees (you don't need 1,000 like the little tree order, MORE like 15 to 100) that you and the wildlife will love for generations and will produce TONS of great production grade food rather quickly.

 

[dbltree]

You could not do that with a transplanted seedling I guarantee that much. I will have to take some pics this spring of the work. I am going to plant some shumark oak acorns, persimmons, eastern wahoo, paw paws, downy hawthorne, downy serviceberry and walnuts in the air pruning containers and see how they work.

I'm interested in where you get the air pruning containers and all we need to know to start are own seedlings. So much cheaper to share acorns and seeds and start our own that's for sure!

Many of us will be planting trees this spring so I wanted to bring up some thoughts on exactly what/where to plant to really enhance our habitat for deer.

We can learn a lot but looking at natural deer use of natural existing tree cover.

I got down at a bedded deer's level and snapped a couple pics in a stand of Red Cedars.

What do use see from their level?

Even in the thickest cedars...I could see any movement for some distance away.

The area under these cedars is full of deer beds

Now...stand up and what do you see?

At best one can only see a short distance

So think about the use of cover trees like cedars and where you can place them in your habitat program. Deer are going to bed in them and take advantage of the ability to be able to see danger and then escape unseen.

Planting oaks next to your cedar planting provide hard mast food sources

Along a creek or near a pond provides a water source

With a little thought you can create a natural funnel that deer will follow out to a food source such as this one.

Just think about your tree plantings, more then just planting trees but taking advantage of our observations of whitetails and their natural use of trees for cover, escape and feed.

In a few years your planning can really pay off!

 

[Sligh1]

With SHRUBS (& maybe a few cedars) would any of you consider MIXING THEM IN ROWS??? Before, I put straight rows of each species. This year, I was considering mixing similar size and growth rate shrubs together (maybe staggering 4 varieties) in the rows. I would do this in case some shrub types don't do well, so it doesn't look so monotonous and just to create more diversity. *I will also do shrubs with similar future maintanence needs.

Basically, this is my way of getting CRAZY in life!!! Wild huh?!?!? What do you think???

 

[dbltree]

Might have possibles Skip, Cedars will eventuall spread out and possible smother a closely planted shrub, but mixing the shrubs might not be a bad idea.

Never tried it so let us know how it works in a few years...

 

[letemgrow]

dbtree,

I ordered mine from Rootmaker I like the express 18 cell trays since you can move the cells around to mix and match if needed. I will try to take some pics of the roots after they go through the process.

Then I move them to 5-gallon pots or just plant them out in their permanent locations. Personally DT I would remove a lot of the cedars and leave isolated pockets for them to bed in and as escape cover. I like to have them at the tops of south facing slopes, but have NWSG/food on the south side so they can avoid the bitter north winds.

Cedars are great escape/bedding cover. I noticed that deer love to bed under them in an ice storm too so some cedars will always have a spot on my place.

 

[dbltree]

i was thinking about planting some dwarf chinkapin oaks, dwarf chestnut oaks & alleghany chinkapins.will these trees produce nuts in 3 or 4 years.would you use tree shelters or cages on these trees.

It does appear that the Dwarf Chinkapin Oak can produce acorns in 3-4 years which makes it very a very attractive oak to consider planting!

Quercus prinoides Willd.
Dwarf chinkapin oak
Fagaceae (Beech Family)
USDA Symbol: QUPR
USDA Native Status: Native to U.S.
GROWTH FORM: rhizomatous shrub or a small tree to 25 feet (7.6 m). BARK: thin gray bark with furrows and scaly ridges. TWIGS and BUDS: grayish twigs, broadly rounded bud brown to chestnut-brown with a blunt apex, scales have some pubescence. LEAVES: shortpetiole 1/4 - 5/8 inch (6 - 16 mm); leathery leaves are obovate, 1 1/2 - 5 1/2 inches (38 - 140 mm), 3/4 - 2 1/2 inches (19 - 63 mm), margin undulate or toothed with 3 - 8 pair of short rounded teeth, base cuneate, apex rounded; shiny dark green above, light green below with slight pubescence. ACORNS: annual; 1 - 2 acorns on peduncle up to 3/8 inch (10 mm), thin cup with short gray pubescent scales, covering up to 1/3 of nut; oblong to oval light brown nut, up to 3/4 inch (19 mm) long.

Dwarf Chinkapin oak can produce acorns at 3 - 5 years. The largest known dwarf chinkapin oak is growing in Richardson County, Nebraska.





The dwarf varieties are more "shrubby" so I think a cage would be better rather then a tube or shelter. The shrubby nature will make them very attractive to hormone charged bucks in the fall, so I would fence them for sure.

Dwarf Chinkapin Oak — Quercus prinoides Seedling Source

Dwarf Chestnut Oak (Quercus prinoides) does say this...

Quercus prinoides usually doesn't grow more than 20 feet tall, and it begins producing acorns at a young age, often when only three or four years old.

Unlike many oaks, once it starts bearing, it has a good crop almost every year. Its acorns are also less bitter and more palatable to wildlife than those of most other oaks.

ALLEGHENY CHINKAPIN

MDC White Oak list

Chinkapin oak is closely related to the smaller but generally similar dwarf chinkapin oak (Quercus prinoides). Besides the differences in size, the two species can be distinguished by their typical habitat: chinkapin oak is typically found on calcareous soils and rocky slopes while dwarf chinkapin oak is more likely to be found on sandy soils.
Although these two oaks are generally regarded as separate species, they are sometimes considered to belong to the same species. Interestingly, when the two are considered to be conspecific, the larger chinkapin oak is often identified as a variety of dwarf chinkapin oak (as Quercus prinoides var. acuminata) because the later was described first. Chinkapin oak is also sometimes confused with the related chestnut oak. However, unlike the pointed teeth on the leaves of the chinkapin oak, the chestnut oak generally has rounded teeth. Unfortunately, this distinction is often not readily apparent. A more reliable means of distinguishing the two is by the bark. Chinkapin oak has a gray, flaky bark very similar to white oak but with a more yellow-brown cast to it, hence the occasional name yellow oak. Chestnut oak has dark, solid, deeply ridged bark that is very different. The chinkapin oak also has smaller acorns than the chestnut or swamp chestnut oaks, which have some of the largest.

Dwarf Chinkapin Oak (Quercus prinoides) leaves

From this site: dwarf chinkapin oak

The following pics are of Chinkapin oak Quercus muehlenbergii Engelm. (not dwarf)...pretty tough to tell which is which.

Chinkapin oak

 

[letemgrow]

dwarf chinkapin and dwarf chestnut oak are the same tree...I think I found one growing along the interstate on my way to work this past year. The tree is maybe 20 feet tall and had a ton of acorns on it for such a small tree. I stopped by to get some acorns, but there was a well worn path to the tree and not a single one was left once they hit the ground.

I will stop by earlier next year and try to pick some up to dibby out if you all want some. They were very small acorns so they were a chinkapin of some sort for sure. Hopefully I can get a positive id next year on the tree.

 

[dbltree]

dwarf chinkapin and dwarf chestnut oak are the same tree...

Dah!! Thanks for pointing that out...

Quercus prinoides pretty much says it all.

I will stop by earlier next year and try to pick some up to dibby out if you all want some.

Count me in!

 

[dbltree]

When do you prefer to do your winter/spring pre-imergent spraying? And what do you like the conditions to be?

*For instance, could I spray in February and does the ground have to be NOT-FROZEN for stuff like Oust (I think I read it can't be frozen), etc. I was going to spray some AS Surflan & Simizine and in some locations I was going spray some oust. Obviously I'll do it on bare ground. What conditions and timing do you like to see??? Thanks!!!

Good question Skip but I don't think I would start applying herbicides before very late March or early April. We have to much frost in the ground and herbicide is not going anywhere but the wrong places if applied now.

Perhaps someone with more techincal expertise could offer better advise but I can tell you that you don't see agriculture herbicides being sprayed on in the winter time.

 

[letemgrow]

Here's something else I do on the way to the deer stands every fall. I take 15-30 minutes to plant various seeds and pack a few tubes with me. Then I go back in that winter and cut out the undesirable trees.

This spot is or was almost 100 percent hickory so I picked it as an area to plant american chestnut, ozark chinquapin, all. chinquapin, and whitexenglish oak. This takes absolutely no time to do and I do not mess up my stands going in extra times to plant during the fall.

 

[dbltree]

I take 15-30 minutes to plant various seeds and pack a few tubes with me. Then I go back in that winter and cut out the undesirable trees.

That's a great idea! Do you plant several seeds in each tube and thin them later if need be?

 

[letemgrow]

Some tubes I planted two, but most were just one. On the oaks I water tested them, then kept them in damp peat till they started to crack open and planted those out then so I knew they were viable seeds.

 

[dbltree]

Some tubes I planted two, but most were just one. On the oaks I water tested them, then kept them in damp peat till they started to crack open and planted those out then so I knew they were viable seeds

.



Here's a video on oak acorns but my speakers aren't working at the moment so I have no idea what he is saying...

How to Plant Live Oak Tree Acorns

Collecting, storing and planting acorns

do a float test to see if the acorns are healthy and viable. To do this, place a handful of acorns in a large container of water. If the acorns sink to the bottom, they are fit acorns ready for planting. If the majority of them float, chances are that these acorns are of bad quality and will unlikely grow.

More acorn "bits"

COLLECTION AND CARE OF ACORNS

Growing Oak Trees from Seed

Direct Seeding

Planting with acorns

 

[letemgrow]

good info!!!

I only keep the sinking acorns and plant them out once they start to crack open and the tap root is about 1/2 an inch out. That way I know they are good

 

[Joey Rott]

I plan on planting several hundred cottonwood cuttings this Spring, to provide some quick & cheap cover in certain areas. Last year I did some indoor tests with 50 or so Cottonwood & Willow cuttings of various sizes to test the root growth in plain water. I did get root growth from 80%-90% of the cuttings, with the bigger cuttings having the best growth.

I'm wanting to use some root growth additive hormones this year, to help the roots develop even more, before I stick them in the ground. There seems to be quite a few different types available, so I was seeing if anyone had any experience with a certain type or brand that worked well for them. Thanks!

 

[dbltree]

Quote:
I'm wanting to use some root growth additive hormones this year, to help the roots develop even more, before I stick them in the ground. There seems to be quite a few different types available, so I was seeing if anyone had any experience with a certain type or brand that worked well for them. Thanks!



I'd like to hear comments on that myself?

Let us know what you decide on and how well it works...

 

[letemgrow]

I am trying the rooting hormone on some chokecherry cuttings I took off some of the trees I bought from Lincoln Oakes nursery in North Dakota.

I bought the miracle-gro rooting hormone for a buck and though I would not be out anything cutting some limbs off and giving it a try.

The rooting hormone is working on the chokecherry cuttings as one of the cuttings I pulled up has started to root already.

 

[dbltree]

The rooting hormone is working on the chokecherry cuttings as one of the cuttings I pulled up has started to root already.

So about a week till it started a root?

Exactly what all did you do here Phil?

Stick the cutting in a glass of water and root hormone?

Explain the process for us...