What should we do about the disease?

[sureshot]

Haha, well atleast we can usually debate in a respectful manner, although we all can be smarta$$'s from time to time. Much better than a lot of other internet forums out there! So, River1, I can't convince you to come help me put corn in front of a few of my trail cameras this weekend?

 

[River1]

Haha, well atleast we can usually debate in a respectful manner, although we all can be smarta$$'s from time to time. Much better than a lot of other internet forums out there! So, River1, I can't convince you to come help me put corn in front of a few of my trail cameras this weekend?

Hell no, but I'd consider meeting you at the tap for a cold one after you were done.:drink2:

 

[letemgrow]

Well if there is anything that we can do, we better ban food plots standing over winter where the deer yard up... Better have to have them tilled up... :thrwrck: again, this is something that, no matter what, is either going to be here, or its not. I wont open the can of worms, but I see it pointless pointing at a mineral lick and not at a food plot in the dead of winter...

Is the disease transmitted just as well when its 15 degrees out on a 1-2 acre beanfield as say when its 80 degrees on a 1x1 foot mineral lick that all the deer will swap spit at?

Mineral sites should be the first to go...sure lots of deer will pile up on a food plot and surely some will swap some spit. Its nothing like them licking a mineral site over and over again on a daily basis tho. CWD is here to stay no matter what is done looks like.

 

[sureshot]

Hell no, but I'd consider meeting you at the tap for a cold one after you were done.:drink2:

Deal!!!!!!!!!

 

[Liv4Rut]

That's it. I am taking up golf.

Chris we all know you have SUMMER kids. Some are here, some are there.........

 

[letemgrow]

Maybe there is one thing here we can all agree on? Putting the kabosh on these deer farms?

I could agree to that!!! :way:

When we had hogs, the one confined to the barns were never as healthy as those out on the grass pastures.

Take the milk river for instance, why do they have 90% dying from EHD? They had too many deer to start with+confined habitat...means very high mortality when a disease does hit.

 

[sureshot]

That's it. I am taking up golf.

Chris we all know you have SUMMER kids. Some are here, some are there.........

Shhh.....I don't want my girlfriend to find out

 

[Windwalker]

Cant ban mineral licks . Deer will jump the fence and be in a cattle mineral feeder then can cattle get it ??

 

[SaskGuy]

You guys are so hung up on banning, eradication of hot spots, and testing, when in reality, there is nothing that is going to stop, slow down, or eliminate CWD in any deer herd nation wide. Check out Wisconsin, man, they really did some good.

I agree. We've had it, nothing really has slowed it. Unfortunately our gov't tried #2 on muleys in the southern part of the province. I hope yours is smarter than that.

 

[iowaqdm]

Saying a licking branch is no different than a mineral lick is speculation also. Can you say there is definitely more body fluids left at a scrape than a mineral site? I doubt it, but who knows for sure. True, we can't stop social animals from contact, but like I said before, we can stop the things we do that could possibly promote disease spread at a faster rate. Also, if anyone reading this thread has learned anything (I have), it isn't worthless. I really don't think I pissed down your leg, so stay off mine.:way:

Not trying to piss on anybody. I hope people do learn about CWD. Just don't want people making up their mind or opinion based on misinformation. The point I was trying to make was the same one as dedgeez. That is nobody knows how the disease is transmitted and therefore any ban would be only on pure speculation and the research doesn't support any bans. States like Kansas where CWD is present and has been for years and who still allow baiting, minerals, and supplimental feeding haven't seen any faster spread of the disease than States who have banned those same practices or never allowed them to begin with. CWD is coming to Iowa quaranteed and nothing you ban will slow the spread or stop it from coming. Sorry about using "worthless" in my post because it wasn't really directed at you personally or the thread specifically just trying to get the point across that deer are social animals. Those deer lick each other, share licking branches, eat off the same ears of corn, eat off the same soybean or alfalfa plants, browse the same brush, piss on tarsal glands that run onto scrapes then every deer that comes to that scrape buck or doe drags their hoof or steps in it. Rubs their nose and head on the licking branch then wanders off, lays down, then licks themselves and other deer while grooming. As far as food sources, I couldn't count how many times I have watched one yearling start eating on an ear of corn only to have an older doe come push them off the ear, then watched a buck or different doe walk over and push the second doe off and finish the same ear. If CWD is spread by contact from one deer to another nothing will stop or slow the spread. So my opinion is no bans will stop or slow CWD in Iowa or any other State that it shows up in. Of course my opinion is worth exactly what I have charged you.

 

[singlecoyote]

Here is a link to Wisconsin's CWD plan. It's long but has a lot of info. Pages 13 & 18 were particularly interesting.

http://www.knowcwd.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=KQh-AFDGUFs=&tabid=69&mid=423

I'm sitting here with my son thinking about how much I want him to enjoy this sport for the next 75 years. He is 5 and getting excited about hunting deer with dad. Sucks that there is something like CWD that could throw a wrench into that.

Bottom line for me - I'm willing to do whatever is needed to help slow, stop or contain this disease just so my boy and I can hunt and grill backstraps for many more years.

If that means banning mineral stations, baiting and supplemental feeding (no matter the potential benefit of the ban, wether its minimal at best or somewhat successful) I'm ok with that, and would hope that my neighboring landowners would feel the same.

Not picking any fights, just my personal thoughts on the issue.

 

[singlecoyote]

When a kid gets a very contagious flu bug and goes to school, is it going to matter much if another kid drinks out of the same glass as him? Uh, no; It's going to spread regardless.

Sureshot - I'm not a doctor, but are you sure about this?

My wife and I both teach and we have 3 kiddos 5 yrs old and under and I can assure you there is no way in hell... oh nevermind, I just want in on the beer. Who needs help with the corn and the cameras??!! :drink2:

 

[Monsterbuck]

Just out of curiosity how do you ban a food plot? Are there any states that have actually banned food plots?

I can see banning a mineral pile or a pile of bait dumped in a location but how do you ban the planting or growth of any plant that might be attractive to deer?

 

[Fishbonker]

This is interesting seeing that as of 2011 Michigan has never had a recorded case of CWD in wild whitetail deer. The one case that was discovered was on August 25th 2008 in a captive doe in a breeding facility.

Sorry dedgeez, nowhere in my post did I write CWD.

We all think The ‘Stache did the Farm Bureau’s bidding on herd reduction. What do we think he will do if a disease becomes epidemic in cattle and the FB blames the spread of the disease on the deer coming to lick minerals put out for cattle? Remember a fence does not and will not stop the spread of disease. His policy of eradication would make the DNR’s plan to deal with CWD look weak.

I’d also like to repeat a point I have tried to make every time this topic comes up. For an animal, and I include humans in this, to catch a disease the animal must be exposed to enough of the disease causing organism to cause the disease. I can almost 100% guarantee that you have been exposed to HIV, Hepatits A, B, and C, swine flu, bird flu, SARS, monkey butt fever, whatever, but you didn’t develop the disease. Why? Because you were not exposed to enough of the disease causing organisms i.e. bacteria, virus or prion to cause the disease.

What we don’t know is how many prions, if that is what is causing CWD, that it takes for the deer to be exposed to that will actually cause the deer to develop CWD. To my point, are there enough prions on a licking branch to spread the disease? Are there enough prions on a half eaten ear of corn to spread the disease? Are there enough prions on a mineral block to spread the disease? Nobody can say to a certainty that there is or there isn’t. But which of those examples concentrate and expose deer to a greater number of prions? Which of those examples can we exert some modicum of control over?

I have said this in the past too, we chose to do what we chose to do and if we chose the path of “inevitability” then the inevitable will surely happen.

 

[dedgeez]

Sorry Bonks, didn't read it closely enough. Just assumed, and we all know what happens when we assume :grin:

Which kind of brings up a good point about the subject. We are all assuming that we have the answers to stop the spread of disease, when in all reality no one does (especially when it comes to CWD). CWD has been around for a long time in different areas and has by no means wiped out any herds or hasn't spread like wildfire. It is also not found to be transferrable to humans or pets. I wonder if it is even really as "harmful" as people make it out to be, or is it natures way of taking out the less healthy animals in a herd? It seems to me that we should be concentrating our efforts on more important things, like figuring out a way to kill midges before they wipe out 90% of a herd like what transpired recently in Montana. I won't post any more on this until we know more, but for now I am not jumping on the bandwagon and saying we need to "ban" this or that or the other thing. There are a bunch of states that allow supplemental feeding and mineral licks and food plots, and baiting, and haven't had a issue yet. IMO, there are way to many armchair deer managers that think they know what is good for everyone and every animal, when in all reality, they may not know as much as they need to. If this is found to be a Bacteria and not a Prion, imagine how dumb some of the "experts" are going to feel for drinking the coolaid and assuming they knew what was best. Being proactive is not a bad thing, but sometimes facts are needed before we jump the gun! IMO sometimes you have to take 2 steps back and assess the situation before you can move forward and be productive.

 

[turkeyriver]

Good post Bonks. A quick Google search lists the 4 variables to the outcome of a host being exposed to a pathogen, in other words, will you get sick if you're exposed? This applies to ANY virus, bacteria, prion, whatever. The four variables are: route of entry, virulence(strength) of the bug,THE QUANTITY OR LOAD OF THE INITIAL EXPOSURE, and the immune status of the host. The perfect analogy is the ? of "Did you get your wife or girlfriend pregnant last night?" Route of entry?-we won't go there. Virulence of the bug-i.e. strength of your swimmers. QUANTITY OR LOAD OF INITIAL EXPOSURE- self explanatory. Immune status of host-what time of the month is it? Assuming a "normal" route of entry, the only variable you can control is number 3. Now, let's use the flu at school example. An apple being passed around and kids taking a bite till it's gone(foodplot)vs. a giant all day sucker at the front door that every kid sucks and slobbers on as they walk in(mineral block) it seems to me the best odds of exposure to the bug AND getting a big dose would be the all day sucker. Everyone on here is right when they say there's no proof on how this spreads but if we can control ONE variable, this seems like the obvious one to try. OK dedgeez, fire away.

 

[dedgeez]

all I got out of that post was that maybe they should put a condom on the sucker????.......

 

[turkeyriver]

DG-I knew you were too kinky to understand.

 

[risto2351]

Maybe there is one thing here we can all agree on? Putting the kabosh on these deer farms?

I agree but what are the chances of that happening?

We do know that this is a contributing factor to CWD but they are
not mentioning getting rid or putting more stringent controls on them.

 

[risto2351]

Good post Bonks. A quick Google search lists the 4 variables to the outcome of a host being exposed to a pathogen, in other words, will you get sick if you're exposed? This applies to ANY virus, bacteria, prion, whatever. The four variables are: route of entry, virulence(strength) of the bug,THE QUANTITY OR LOAD OF THE INITIAL EXPOSURE, and the immune status of the host. The perfect analogy is the ? of "Did you get your wife or girlfriend pregnant last night?" Route of entry?-we won't go there. Virulence of the bug-i.e. strength of your swimmers. QUANTITY OR LOAD OF INITIAL EXPOSURE- self explanatory. Immune status of host-what time of the month is it? Assuming a "normal" route of entry, the only variable you can control is number 3. Now, let's use the flu at school example. An apple being passed around and kids taking a bite till it's gone(foodplot)vs. a giant all day sucker at the front door that every kid sucks and slobbers on as they walk in(mineral block) it seems to me the best odds of exposure to the bug AND getting a big dose would be the all day sucker. Everyone on here is right when they say there's no proof on how this spreads but if we can control ONE variable, this seems like the obvious one to try. OK dedgeez, fire away.

I don't know about D-G but I had to read it three or four times to understand it.