Monsterbuck
Active Member
I guess they don't need the petition they had hundreds of people sign at the Classic trying to get it legalized. It's already legal. Huh, who knew.
Sarcasm off. ;-)
What's your opinion on blood trailing dogs?
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I guess they don't need the petition they had hundreds of people sign at the Classic trying to get it legalized. It's already legal. Huh, who knew.
Sarcasm off. ;-)
letemgrow
PMA Member
This is what I found:
You may not use dogs, domestic animals, bait, radios, handguns, rifles and crossbows (except as described below), automobiles, aircraft, electronic calls or any mechanical conveyance or device to hunt deer. Paraplegics and single- or double-leg amputees may hunt from any stationary motor-driven conveyance. “Paraplegic” means an individual afflicted with paralysis of the lower half of the body with the involvement of both legs, usually due to disease or injury to the spinal cord.
No where could I find that it was legal. Would you please post a link directly to where you found this information? Or at least copy and paste it?
I would hate for someone to actually use a dog to track a deer and then lose it to the state because they were misinformed...
This is what I found:
You may not use dogs, domestic animals, bait, radios, handguns, rifles and crossbows (except as described below), automobiles, aircraft, electronic calls or any mechanical conveyance or device to hunt deer. Paraplegics and single- or double-leg amputees may hunt from any stationary motor-driven conveyance. “Paraplegic” means an individual afflicted with paralysis of the lower half of the body with the involvement of both legs, usually due to disease or injury to the spinal cord.
No where could I find that it was legal. Would you please post a link directly to where you found this information? Or at least copy and paste it?
hoosierhunter
Active Member
IMO this does NOT make trailing a lost deer illegal with a dog. The law is open to interpretation. I read that has saying I can't run deer with dogs. Jmo.
One of these days I'm going to start charging you for all this free schooling...
Hunting” means any pursuing, hunting, killing, trapping, snaring, netting, searching for or shooting at, stalking or lying in wait for any game, animal, bird or fish protected by the state laws or rules adopted by the commission whether or not such animal is captured, killed or injured
So there you have it. This rule is NOT open to interpretation. I'm still waiting for the other guy to offer up evidence to support the claim he made.
hoosierhunter
Active Member
I stand corrected
I think it is only a matter of time before this is "legalized". I read some opinions on "pushing deer" or using a dog to hunt deer. Those who are aware of how this works will abide by the laws to find a dead or wounded deer. Those who don't obey the law in reference to this, are probably already poaching deer anyway.
I will say to the naysayers this- If your fine woodsman skills or whatever skills you possess to creep, crawl, camo and climb to nail that awesome kill shot, witness a poacher or know of a poacher take a shot or hear about a shot at a massive Iowa Buck and turn them in, how do you want the DNR to handle this? ......???? Say you take the game warden to the exact site and say, I think it happened here and here is some blood. What next? Either tramp around and lose a trail or stomp all over it, or,,, or,,, you or the game warden say, "I know of a guy 20 miles away with a blood tracker, he can bring his dog AND THE DOGS LEASH, (tether), and maybe we can gather some evidence and find this punk.
But the game warden can use his fine woodsman skills to find it as of now.
Let's come together on this and improve this sport and maybe that young 14 year old who is still fine tuning can harvest that first deer, because remember, there is something called "rookie mistakes".
Come on folks.
I will say to the naysayers this- If your fine woodsman skills or whatever skills you possess to creep, crawl, camo and climb to nail that awesome kill shot, witness a poacher or know of a poacher take a shot or hear about a shot at a massive Iowa Buck and turn them in, how do you want the DNR to handle this? ......???? Say you take the game warden to the exact site and say, I think it happened here and here is some blood. What next? Either tramp around and lose a trail or stomp all over it, or,,, or,,, you or the game warden say, "I know of a guy 20 miles away with a blood tracker, he can bring his dog AND THE DOGS LEASH, (tether), and maybe we can gather some evidence and find this punk.
But the game warden can use his fine woodsman skills to find it as of now.
Let's come together on this and improve this sport and maybe that young 14 year old who is still fine tuning can harvest that first deer, because remember, there is something called "rookie mistakes".
Come on folks.
Wow, I'm not sure my grasp of the English language is strong enough to convey the contempt I feel towards the weak argument put forth in the previous person s "first" post.
Come on folks is right. Grow a pair and use your regular SN.
If this truly is your first post, I beg you, please put together a more cogent response for your next submittal. It makes having these debates more worthwhile.
Come on folks is right. Grow a pair and use your regular SN.
If this truly is your first post, I beg you, please put together a more cogent response for your next submittal. It makes having these debates more worthwhile.
Geez, ok. Welcome to the group huh? I don't know what an SN is?
I guess it's not an argument either, just because you are not for it iabwhntr, doesn't mean you have to lobby against it either.
Ok, next idea,, the handicapped person shoots at a deer with his cross bow, and hes a double amputee, him and his buddies who are fine woodsmen, lose the blood trail. Then what?
See, I don't get guys like you who have all of the answers. Dogs were put here to do some awesome things, one of which is possess hundreds of thousands of receptors in their nose. Those receptors find scent and blood your eyes long lost.
Let the system run it's course here. Or lobby against rabbit hunters with beagles and coon hunters with hounds. Or is that ok with you?
2nd post.
BTW, I think you posted for the first time too, right? I suppose a youth hunter should never take a first shot and miss either right?
I guess it's not an argument either, just because you are not for it iabwhntr, doesn't mean you have to lobby against it either.
Ok, next idea,, the handicapped person shoots at a deer with his cross bow, and hes a double amputee, him and his buddies who are fine woodsmen, lose the blood trail. Then what?
See, I don't get guys like you who have all of the answers. Dogs were put here to do some awesome things, one of which is possess hundreds of thousands of receptors in their nose. Those receptors find scent and blood your eyes long lost.
Let the system run it's course here. Or lobby against rabbit hunters with beagles and coon hunters with hounds. Or is that ok with you?
2nd post.
BTW, I think you posted for the first time too, right? I suppose a youth hunter should never take a first shot and miss either right?
Your right. That was harsh. Please accept my apologies. You'll forgive me if your timing seems... suspect. I took your tone to be slightly belligerent, especially when you referenced my comment of empolying better woodsmanship skills.
However, if I'm not for something, I'm against it. If people make compelling argument I will change my view. That hasn't happened yet with this subject. So far all I have heard are lame excuses about losing blood trails, catching poachers and being disappointed. Basically, aspects of hunting.
In my opinion, the opportunity for overall misuse outweighs the benefits gained in those less than common circumstances where a deer disappears without a trace.
However, if I'm not for something, I'm against it. If people make compelling argument I will change my view. That hasn't happened yet with this subject. So far all I have heard are lame excuses about losing blood trails, catching poachers and being disappointed. Basically, aspects of hunting.
In my opinion, the opportunity for overall misuse outweighs the benefits gained in those less than common circumstances where a deer disappears without a trace.
Liv4Rut
Active Member
In a perfect world where everyone makes a perfect double lung shot and watches the deer fall within eyesight a dog would never be needed. Unfortunately that is not the case. Whether you are a veteran deer hunter or a newbie we all make mistakes from time to time and make a poor shot. The guys that are good blood trailers and have the drive to make every effort possible to recover their deer will still recover many animals. There are still times or unforseen weather conditions that will leave you scratching your head on what happened with the animal. I have been there and it still hurts to think of deer that died that I did not recover after many hours / days of searching. I would of gladly enlisted the use of a dog to see if they could help in my recovery efforts. Maybe they would have helped, maybe not, but it sure would not of hurt as the end result was no deer in these cases.
It would also be nice to think that everyone can blood trail but the simple fact of the matter is not many can. There are only a handful of guys out of the many I know that I would even consider taking to trail a deer. I know 30+ year hunters that simply cannot blood trail to save their life. They go to fast and do not pay attention to the details. They also do not ever seem to want help in looking. I don't know how many times I have found their deer either for them when called in or in the spring when I go shed hunt these areas. It is really pathetic and I have no doubts a dog would have recovered their deer. The same goes to newbies, not many are oustanding trackers. Tracking really is an art as you got to think like the deer many times to uncover a speck of blood in a direction nobody would have thought the deer would have gone.
I have also been on tough trails I know guys would have given up and left a deer in the woods. For instance my buddy double lunged a doe in a tall grass field and it literally took us a couple hours to find the deer from 50 yards of impact. Just pins and needles in a haystack. A lot of guys would of just said its a doe, I will shoot another. I have no doubt about it. A dog would of walked right to it.
I personally believe the benefits gained would greatly outweigh the overall misuse. It is actually sickening how many deer are wounded with a bow every year. Forum after forum, hear say between people I know opens your eyes on just how many deer are wounded. Would a dog help? I have no doubt it would in many instances. Some instances it would not.
90% of hunters are good honest people. The 10% who would misuse this are already doing it now with the current laws. If the dog is on a leash, there are no weapons involved and there were heavy fines for misuse, I would have no problem with it. I believe every effort should be made in recovering deer that has been shot and a dog would be an extra tool to help in recovering the animal.
If we made every law for the 10% who abuse the law all it does is hurt the 90% that obeys the law and the 10% still does it anyway. Think of all the freedoms that would be taken away if that is how we thought all throughout life. It doesn't make sense to me personally.
It would also be nice to think that everyone can blood trail but the simple fact of the matter is not many can. There are only a handful of guys out of the many I know that I would even consider taking to trail a deer. I know 30+ year hunters that simply cannot blood trail to save their life. They go to fast and do not pay attention to the details. They also do not ever seem to want help in looking. I don't know how many times I have found their deer either for them when called in or in the spring when I go shed hunt these areas. It is really pathetic and I have no doubts a dog would have recovered their deer. The same goes to newbies, not many are oustanding trackers. Tracking really is an art as you got to think like the deer many times to uncover a speck of blood in a direction nobody would have thought the deer would have gone.
I have also been on tough trails I know guys would have given up and left a deer in the woods. For instance my buddy double lunged a doe in a tall grass field and it literally took us a couple hours to find the deer from 50 yards of impact. Just pins and needles in a haystack. A lot of guys would of just said its a doe, I will shoot another. I have no doubt about it. A dog would of walked right to it.
I personally believe the benefits gained would greatly outweigh the overall misuse. It is actually sickening how many deer are wounded with a bow every year. Forum after forum, hear say between people I know opens your eyes on just how many deer are wounded. Would a dog help? I have no doubt it would in many instances. Some instances it would not.
90% of hunters are good honest people. The 10% who would misuse this are already doing it now with the current laws. If the dog is on a leash, there are no weapons involved and there were heavy fines for misuse, I would have no problem with it. I believe every effort should be made in recovering deer that has been shot and a dog would be an extra tool to help in recovering the animal.
If we made every law for the 10% who abuse the law all it does is hurt the 90% that obeys the law and the 10% still does it anyway. Think of all the freedoms that would be taken away if that is how we thought all throughout life. It doesn't make sense to me personally.
Liv, I respect your opinion and cannot argue with some of your points. In particular the last paragraph.
My real concern, law breakers not included, is what I perceive to be the loss of a skill. Why bother to learn tracking if you have a dog? Why use a dog when I can use GPS? Why practice archery at all when I can mount a 3x9 on a Barnett crossbow?
If we continually look for easier ways to do thing, we lose something along the way. Who will teach your kids how to track if he grows up using dogs?
Look, I understand the disappointment of losing a deer. But that's a part of hunting.
My real concern, law breakers not included, is what I perceive to be the loss of a skill. Why bother to learn tracking if you have a dog? Why use a dog when I can use GPS? Why practice archery at all when I can mount a 3x9 on a Barnett crossbow?
If we continually look for easier ways to do thing, we lose something along the way. Who will teach your kids how to track if he grows up using dogs?
Look, I understand the disappointment of losing a deer. But that's a part of hunting.
I'm red/green colorblind. Blood trailing is tough to almost impossible. Maybe I should quit hunting.
I am too. All I can say is...make better shots
Or, maybe you could switch to Rage broadheads, I understand they leave a blood trail a blind guy could follow!
You seem like a decent guy, I'd hate for you to quit hunting. If/when you shoot a deer, call me and I'll help you look for it. I'll pm you my number
Liv4Rut
Active Member
This is the line I hear year after year dozens of times. Basically I hit one and can't find it. They shrug their shoulders and say oh well that is a part of hunting. Just got to get get back on the horse and poke another. What are we really learning from that? Its okay to gimp one because it is part of hunting? What if as little as 25% of those deer were recovered with a dog in a time frame when the Iowa herd is hurting. Would that be beneficial or bad?
I feel even if the law was passed maybe 25% of the population would even use it because I bet most will not buy a dog or pay for their services and I doubt dogs will be too available. I personally would not enlist a dog until all efforts were put in on my part.
Most would say the skill of archery in itself is lost. It does not take much to teach anyone to shoot a compound. My hats are off to the guys shooting traditional deer and killing them all from the ground. I do not believe the skill of tracking would be lost to the majority of folks as it is a big part of the hunt but a lot of folks never learn it to begin with. If a dog would ensure that the deer is recovered or not I do not see a problem with it for the few that would utilize one.
The whole sport is evolving making things easier which always is not a bad thing all the time. I would bet if you gave every compound shooter a bow from 20 years ago the wounding rates would be much higher than they are today. Its the nature of humans to make things better. Indoor plumbing is one of them
It is like anything in life you are for it or your not. I bet a poll would show most support if there were rules and guidelines to follow. Heck we allow party hunting and this does not seem like it would get abused a fraction of that. You either follow laws or not I guess.
mplane72
PMA Member
Liv pretty much summed up how I feel. I'm all for a dog to be legal. On a lead no weapon and that's it. No special tracking permit or certification. If I'm at my wits end and want to bring my lab out for a walk then I should be able to. Hell, I've heard more then one CO he would not bother a guy who was doing that now.
letemgrow
PMA Member
Not everyone's skill set is the same for finding deer. Some can visualize where the deer would go and basically act like a deer when they lose the blood trail for. Some people can shoot asprin out of the air with traditional archery gear, some will never be able to do it if they practice for 50 years.
What do they do?? Pick up a shotgun and bam!! They are plunking aspirin at will.
A trailing dog is just another tool for those less "skilled" to be able to find their quarry. Some people will need them and some wont. Its no different than paralyzed people being able to hunt out of trucks where as the other hunters cannot LEGALLY. Its a tool/way for that type hunter to still be able to enjoy the outdoors.