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What's your opinion on blood trailing dogs?

I was at the Iowa Whitetail Classic promoting the legalization of using a leashed dog to track wounded deer in Iowa. We did have 842 people sign the petition in favor of this. I am a member of the United Blood Trackers and I live in Eastern Iowa. I am an avid bowhunter. It is now not legal to use a dog to track deer in Iowa. The petition that is being forwarded to the DNR proposes that; 1) The dog has to be on a leash and under the control of the handler, 2) Permission must be obtained before going onto private property.

At the Classic I found that most of the people didn't realize that this wasn't allowed in our state. Last year the IBA did indead lobby against the proposed law to legalize this. After speaking to some of their members at the Classic we found that one of the main oppositions was the low fine charged if a person wasn't following the rule. That was written in by a Legislator several years ago. I agree that the fine is too low. Make it $1000.00 dollars and loss of hunting privileges, I don't care. I know that most people will follow the rule and do what is right. I don't think it is possible to legislate good behavior and morality. If someone wants to break the law, they will do it. There are people that poach deer now. Should we outlaw hunting because of the few poachers? In the other bordering states that allow tracking with a leashed dog such as Wisconsin, Illinois, Missouri, Nebraska, and South Dakota you will find they have reported no big problems of abuse since legalizing this. Do some people against this think that Iowans are not as trustworthy, and ethical, as people in the allowed tracking states? Really?

As far as not allowing this because someone thinks it shows an irresponsible hunter that has no skills or woodsman-ship, I disagree. Anyone that has been hunting for any amount of time knows that eventually you, or a friend is going to have a bad shot that is fatal to the deer, but leaves no visible sign to be followed by eye tracking. I don't think anyone has the right, besides the DNR, to tell me I can't search for a wounded deer, with a leashed dog. Especially when this is on my land or land I have permission to hunt. If you think this practice shows bad woodsman-ship, don't do it. I personally like to see a dog work and do a job. If that job will aide in the recovery of a deer, whether it be a trophy buck, or a youth hunter's first doe, great!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I will tell you that the over-whelming amount of Iowan's support this. It has been this way since it was proposed 4-5 years ago. Unfortunately politics have gotten in the way. There are things that will have to be hashed out before this law becomes final. I will be getting in contact with Fishbonker to get his opinions and concerns.
 
Here in Michigan it is legal to use a dog to track your deer once it has been shot. Not legal to use dogs to run/hunt deer. The stipulations that I know of (and I'm sure there may be more that I don't know of) are that in order for the hunter to carry a weapon during the tracking the dog handler must be a state certified tracker and that the dog must be leashed during the track.

These guys do a great job and help a bunch of hunters every year. Rob's dog Sypris is a bit of a web celebrity with all the exposure she's gotten over the last few years. She's an amazing animal that can follow a track that many, many people would have lost.

http://www.michigandeertracknhounds.com/

Honestly I can't see a reason that someone would be against this capability being legalized. To vote it down based on the fact that a few select people may take advantage of it is doing a dis-service to all those who could benefit from it. Then, those select few who choose to violate rules will continue to do so regardless of what the law says.
 
hoosierhunter said:
This is a major flaw in Iowa regs. Here in Indiana you must have permission to cross a property line. I completely disagree with someone being allowed to cross property lines without permission.
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Disagree completely. I think it is great that a hunter (unarmed) can cross lines and search for his deer. Too many crazy stories about property ownder being boneheads and letting deer die and rot on their land to keep a hunter in pursuit to recover their game out…

If I was in my stand on November 7th and had a wounded deer on my lease and a hunter coming to find it, I would gladly get down and help him recover it. I hope this does not happen, but still recovered game is very important to me.
 
I would much rather have someone cross my property line with a trained dog to recover his deer than a hunter cross my property line with a scant blood trail that turns into nothing and the hunter walking all over God's creation looking for his deer on my property which he doesn't need permission to do now.
 
twn417 said:
Disagree completely. I think it is great that a hunter (unarmed) can cross lines and search for his deer. Too many crazy stories about property ownder being boneheads and letting deer die and rot on their land to keep a hunter in pursuit to recover their game
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I guess your different than me. If you don't own it than I don't see why you should be allowed on it without asking first!

I would challenge you on this story. If the property owner leaves the deer lay it is wanton waste and punishable. If they choose to keep the deer they are required to put their tag on it.

I've only encountered this on one occasion and the property owner tagged the buck. It was in the early 80's and they would not allow my father to retrieve the deer. Even our toughest anti-hunting neighbors allow us to recover deer. It's all about how you choose to approach people and asking the question before it ever happens.
 
Blood tracking dogs do work, and are needed in certain circumstance's. We have one, and yes she even comes out if someone makes a bad shot on a doe. We keep her on a leash and she will take you right to the deer.

I'm not a 100% certain why people are against it. If trespassing with a dog is the main issue, make it only legal if the landowner signs off on it. What if a landowner is the one who made the marginal shot on the deer, and he wants to find his deer?

Having many hounds myself, to have a dog pass certification is a joke as best. My track dog will take me or my dad to any deer that has been wounded. If someone else were to take her, I doubt she would do a thing. Or if there are a group of people around, I'm not real sure she would do anything either. How are you going to get a dog to pass certification exactly? Have them track a deer? My little lap dog in the house would probably do that. The only way around it is go with a reputable tracker. Just like anything in life, there will be a few that know exactly what they are doing and word will get around.
 
nannyslayer said:
Having many hounds myself, to have a dog pass certification is a joke as best.
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Agreed Nanny

If they can trail a deer, people will leash them up and use them to find wounded deer. If they can't, I guess they can...no guaranteed they will trespass and use that "clause" to their benefit to push game onto farms they can hunt. With certified dogs, that will not be near the problem.

"Legalize it". :D
 
StickersNKickers said:
Just a question, but how long after the shot can a dog track a wounded deer? Hours? Next day?
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Easily into the next day for sure, I know its easier if people are not walking all over the place grid searching first. They can pick up the scent and move it to other places of that deer without even knowing they are on the trail so to speak.

If I had a trailing dog and it were legal, I'd back out if the blood gets thin and not risk it, let the dog take up the track from there and be sure. No reason not to if the option is there and more efficient.
 
StickersNKickers said:
Just a question, but how long after the shot can a dog track a wounded deer? Hours? Next day?
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On arrow affliction Chris bracket brought in a blood hound after 3 days and the dog found the deer.

They recommended calling for the dog immediately because all the human scent can screw things up plus while your looking the scent is dissipating. I think he said something like 72 to 96 hours or earlier. I also think he said if the dog gets on the trail within 24 hours that they almost always find the deer unless it's a non lethal hit.
 
I worked the United Blood Trackers both in Iowa all three days. There may have been comments made about the IBH leadership being against tracking dogs but I didn't hear them. The focus of most of the discussions was to get hunters to ask the state to make a change in the hunting regulations so using a tracking dog isn't considered hunting with a dog. This is similiar to the state saying that even though you can only hunt during legal hunting hours, going out with a flashlight after legal hours is not considered hunting after hours.

The focus of this discussion seems to be on bowhunters making shots that require the use of tracking dogs. In a South Carolina study of rifle hunters where 500 deer were shot, tracking dogs were able to increase the harvest by 15 to 20%. In many cases the hunters thought they missed the deer entirely but the dogs proved differently. The hunters where sitting in elevated stands with shooting rests.

I recovered a deer for a first time hunter last year. It was the boy's very first shot at a deer. The 11 year old looked for 5 hours with his dad before being taken to school for the afternoon. The kid was in tears when he had to quit the search. His dad remembered that I had helped others with my dog and gave me a call. The huntes had taken the track for a half mile. My dog went another mile before finding the deer. I am pretty sure that finding this deer will make him a hunter for a very long time. Losing the deer could have soured him to our sport.
 
nannyslayer said:
Having many hounds myself, to have a dog pass certification is a joke as best. My track dog will take me or my dad to any deer that has been wounded. If someone else were to take her, I doubt she would do a thing. Or if there are a group of people around, I'm not real sure she would do anything either. How are you going to get a dog to pass certification exactly? Have them track a deer? My little lap dog in the house would probably do that. The only way around it is go with a reputable tracker. Just like anything in life, there will be a few that know exactly what they are doing and word will get around.
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If the certification comments are in reference to my post about Michigan requiring the use of a state certified tracker I believe the certification is more about the person handling the dog as it is the dog itself. You are correct in the idea that just about any dog can out track a human based on the abilities of their nose and having to certify that ability is a bit much. I would imagine the idea of certification is to show that the handler knows what he's doing and can keep the dog on task, under control, understands and knows the laws surrounding the "can and cannot's" surrounding a track, etc.

In Michigan I believe that anyone can use a dog to track a wounded deer but if you want to be able to carry and use a weapon during a track job involving a dog (to put a final shot in a deer if needed) you must be working with certified tracker. This is probably just an attempt to try and minimize the number of people who would potentially use dogs to run and hunt deer under the guise of "tracking".
 
hoosierhunter said:
On arrow affliction Chris bracket brought in a blood hound after 3 days and the dog found the deer.

They recommended calling for the dog immediately because all the human scent can screw things up plus while your looking the scent is dissipating. I think he said something like 72 to 96 hours or earlier. I also think he said if the dog gets on the trail within 24 hours that they almost always find the deer unless it's a non lethal hit.
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That is correct, the recommendation from the guys I posted earlier is to back out as soon as you lose the trail for best results from the dog. Any grid searching, wandering, etc can have a negative effect on the dogs ability to track the deer.

Another issue is that a good dog will track the deer by the scent of it's individual tracks as opposed to by blood like humans do, which is why they can find a deer goes a long ways while only leaving minimal blood behind. If the deer is traveling through a heavily and you wait a while other deer can pass through, use the same run, etc and make it tougher for the dog to stay on that individual deers trail.

Just like a human on a track job, getting on the track as soon as safely possible is the best plan. The difference is a dog can work through a lot more extenuating circumstances (rain, time, lost blood, river crossings, etc) than most people can.
 
So then this shouldn't be a last resort option to find the deer, since other options will negatively affect the dog's ability to track? Just throwing out questions to think about.
 
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