bowhuntr311
IowaWhitetail Addict
Ok Dbltree,
You have now steered me AWAY from GHFR. True I want my deer to eat my brassicas but I want them to wait as late into the year as possible. I would be furious if I planted a plot full of GHFR for a late season spot and came in before season to find them gone. Even adding these into a mix sounds like a bad idea. As long as your goal for brassicas is for late season feed.
So here is my questions to you: why are the deer after the ONE kind and not the rest? Something to do with a certain maturity level of them and not the others maybe? Do you think that your GHFR plot is an exeption to the norm?
You have now steered me AWAY from GHFR. True I want my deer to eat my brassicas but I want them to wait as late into the year as possible. I would be furious if I planted a plot full of GHFR for a late season spot and came in before season to find them gone. Even adding these into a mix sounds like a bad idea. As long as your goal for brassicas is for late season feed.
So here is my questions to you: why are the deer after the ONE kind and not the rest? Something to do with a certain maturity level of them and not the others maybe? Do you think that your GHFR plot is an exeption to the norm?
dbltree
Super Moderator
I only planted a sample plot in the garden in June...normally I plant the forage radishes with rape and turnips in mid July and then again mixed with winter rye, oats and peas in late August.
Couple points I think your missing here...the area they wiped out is only a very tiny test area and where I mixed the GHFR with other brassicas in large (several acres) plantings they are holding their own although still being grazed heavily.
Planting a small plot of GHFR alone in an area with no other food sources would be akin to doing the same thing with soybeans...they would get wiped out in short order!
On the other hand it's extremely important to feed deer year around to hold them on our property, so we need food sources that they can't resist.
A mixed brassica planting that includes GroundHog forage radish insures that deer will start using the plot early, yet also insures that they will spare the turnips allowing them to grow and provide late season feed.
I'm not sure I understand this question?? Why are deer after the radish plants and not the other brassicas??
Obviously because they are extremely palatable and sweet and turnip greens are not! (cook some of each and see for yourself...
)I want deer to stay in my food sources 24-7...365 days a year...a combination of food sources that include plants like GHFR insure that happens...:way:
bowhuntr311
IowaWhitetail Addict
My biggest plot is an acre. I cant afford space wise to to plant multiple crops. Each plot that I plant is for a different parts of the season. If I had enough space I would plant different crops but Im limited to a plot per property if Im lucky. Hence, planting GHFR alone would not do me much good, I think the deer would blow through my 1/2acre plots in days. Although I do agree, planting them in with a big enough brassica plot may allow one planting and you would have deer steady grazing over a longer period of time.
Obviously because they are extremely palatable and sweet and turnip greens are not! (cook some of each and see for yourself...
So unlike turnip greens which seem to be sweeter and more palatable after freezing the GHFR are sweeter already, if you had enough and they would last until some hard frosts would they become even more sweet?
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So I have a rookie food plotter question about how and why we didn't get any brassicas to germinate. We have a farm in south central Iowa (Leon area)that we recently tried to plant brassicas on. On July 31st we mowed 4 acres that had been in CRP for the last couple years and sprayed Round Up. The next morning we tilled everything in, cultipacked, broad cast the seed and cultipacked again. Would planting after only 12 hours of spraying Round Up cause seeds not to germinate? The only place seeds are coming up is at the edge where 4x4 turned around and sprayer was shut down, so we are assuming it is a round up issue.
dbltree
Super Moderator
I would counter that you can't afford not too...no reason on earth not to plant clover, brassicas and a cereal combination in any size plots to hold deer all year long.
I do it with very high deer densities and plots as small as gardens.
I normally plant 5#'s per acre of a brassica mix but when I add GHFR I add 5#'s and fertilize with 200#'s of urea so I'm not short changing my yield or forage quality...so one has nothing to lose and everything to gain...
Good question? Could very well be true and I wouldn't be surprised at all but I don't have facts on the subject? I think all brassicas tend to get sweeter as starches turn to sugars after frosts and that would include forage radishes.
Roundup would have absolutely no effect on your brassica germination but I can tell you what caused your brassica planting to fail.
Happened to many of us all across southern Iowa, extremely heavy rains followed by hot baking summer sun caused severe soil crusting.
A 1/2" crust will keep all tiny seeds like brassicas from emerging after germination and the heavy rains followed by hot sunshine backed the upper layer like a brick.
Seeds germinate but can't emerge....areas that may not have been compacted as much (like around the edges, raised areas or more mellow loamy soils) would see seed emergence.
The only other reason would be if you had some other herbicide in your tank before spraying the roundup...such as 2-4D perhaps but barring that I suspect soil crusting...
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dbltree
Super Moderator
Thanks for the input, guess my farmer friends weren't full of it
No not really...it happens with soybeans frequently and farmers use a rotary hoe to break the crust but soybeans are very large and string, it would kill brassicas.
Just make sure soil is good and dry and not sticky at all when you fit it and sow it and hope you don't get a gully washer 2 days later...
Mike sent me a few pics of some of his GroundHog forage radish plots including these of a plot he nuked with roundup and then broadcasted GHFR seed.
Before
After...not so shabby! :way:
These are some of his GHFR in the ground 60 days now...
Mike has tons of corn, soybeans and sugar beets so deer are not focusing on his radish plots yet but...they'll be there when the corn and beans are not...
letemgrow
PMA Member
One thing I learned from spraying and broadcasting into sod the same day...it can be difficult to get back in and broadcast the urea right before a rain if you don't live right on the property. I have been back 3-4 times since I scatter seeded but missed the rains each time.
I got great germination, but without the N, they are not doing nearly as well as they could be. This is where tilling and adding the fertilizer would have done much better.
Oats, groundhog forage radish and sunflowers, so far, I have not noticed any browse on the gfr or the sunflowers, but they are hitting the feed oats...go figure
This was a weaker area so I broadcasted again a week or two ago and it took this time.
I got great germination, but without the N, they are not doing nearly as well as they could be. This is where tilling and adding the fertilizer would have done much better.
Oats, groundhog forage radish and sunflowers, so far, I have not noticed any browse on the gfr or the sunflowers, but they are hitting the feed oats...go figure
This was a weaker area so I broadcasted again a week or two ago and it took this time.
dbltree
Super Moderator
Heck...they haven't left me any to taste!
I have not noticed any browse on the gfr or the sunflowers, but they are hitting the feed oats...go figure
So I have noticed they seem to like the GHFR when they get bigger Phil, so that's good in this case that they are eating the oats and allowing the radish plants to get some growth on them.
I really like the cereal grain/radish combo...and yours are looking good! :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
So far I have been very pleased at the ease with which the GroundHog forage radish germinates when overseeded on bare ground.
I mixed GHFR with winter rye and here you can see both have germinated and are growing
These are only a week old so well behind the conventionally sown rye and radish mix but any growth and resulting feed is a plus so we'll keep an eye on it and see how it does as fall progresses... :way:
I mixed GHFR with winter rye and here you can see both have germinated and are growing
These are only a week old so well behind the conventionally sown rye and radish mix but any growth and resulting feed is a plus so we'll keep an eye on it and see how it does as fall progresses... :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
We have received 5" of rain since Saturday and more in the forecast pushing us up near 30" above normal, more then double our normal rainfall for the year! Farmers are reporting yield 30-40% below normal but soybeans appear to have endured the heavy rains much better.
Just another reason not to put all your eggs in one basket and grow multiple crop types in each plot. Our clovers have absolutely thrived all year seemingly loving the cool wet weather and the cereal grain plantings this fall have largely done well thus far.
The brassicas are like the corn partially because they too love nitrogen and they need to "breathe" and cannot do so in waterlogged soils. Where ground is well drained they have lush full leaves...
But soils even a few inches lower are waterlogged and the brassicas are suffering...note the radical difference here from one side of the strip to the other.
Some roots are healthy and growing like this GroundHog forage radish root
While I found others where the plant was dead and the root dead and rotting...nothing we can do about the weather, some areas are dry and begging for even a hint of rain while we are literally awash in water.
Diverse plantings insure we don't end up with nothing! Any crops can drown but clovers with shallow root systems not requiring nitrogen can do well as can cereal grains planted in early fall. Their root systems will not be that extensive yet making them less vulnerable to water logged soils and they are all well adapted to dry soils and weather.
Consider planting blocks of strips of different crops in each field so all bases are covered and deer are never without great food sources and you'll have a better chance of holding them on your property year around, year after year... :way:
Just another reason not to put all your eggs in one basket and grow multiple crop types in each plot. Our clovers have absolutely thrived all year seemingly loving the cool wet weather and the cereal grain plantings this fall have largely done well thus far.
The brassicas are like the corn partially because they too love nitrogen and they need to "breathe" and cannot do so in waterlogged soils. Where ground is well drained they have lush full leaves...
But soils even a few inches lower are waterlogged and the brassicas are suffering...note the radical difference here from one side of the strip to the other.
Some roots are healthy and growing like this GroundHog forage radish root
While I found others where the plant was dead and the root dead and rotting...nothing we can do about the weather, some areas are dry and begging for even a hint of rain while we are literally awash in water.
Diverse plantings insure we don't end up with nothing! Any crops can drown but clovers with shallow root systems not requiring nitrogen can do well as can cereal grains planted in early fall. Their root systems will not be that extensive yet making them less vulnerable to water logged soils and they are all well adapted to dry soils and weather.
Consider planting blocks of strips of different crops in each field so all bases are covered and deer are never without great food sources and you'll have a better chance of holding them on your property year around, year after year... :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
I sprayed some grass that had invaded my brassicas in a couple spots...
Dead grass...healthy brassicas!
Clethodim Label
If your local ag co-op doesn't have clethodim on hand they can probably order it but here is a great online source where clethodim is priced very reasonably.
Clethodim source
Now that deer have cleaned up every last forage radish in the test strip...(and I mean they have licked the plate!)
They are starting on the rape plants....
Dwarf Essex Rape
Barnapoli Rape
at this point they have not touched the turnips and I would note that this makes this combination (forage radish, rape and turnips) ideal because with proper fertilization yields of all three can be higher then that if only rape and turnips were planted.
This also ensures that deer will feed in your plots from August til the last turnip is gone in late winter...the radish plants are a great way to acclimate deer to feeding on brassicas and also to adapt them to feeding in your plots and living on your land. Of course that isn't going to happen if you have not provided them with safe secure bedding areas as well.... :way:
Dead grass...healthy brassicas!
Clethodim Label
If your local ag co-op doesn't have clethodim on hand they can probably order it but here is a great online source where clethodim is priced very reasonably.
Clethodim source
Now that deer have cleaned up every last forage radish in the test strip...(and I mean they have licked the plate!)
They are starting on the rape plants....
Dwarf Essex Rape
Barnapoli Rape
at this point they have not touched the turnips and I would note that this makes this combination (forage radish, rape and turnips) ideal because with proper fertilization yields of all three can be higher then that if only rape and turnips were planted.
This also ensures that deer will feed in your plots from August til the last turnip is gone in late winter...the radish plants are a great way to acclimate deer to feeding on brassicas and also to adapt them to feeding in your plots and living on your land. Of course that isn't going to happen if you have not provided them with safe secure bedding areas as well.... :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
Mike tells me that's a 12" boot next to this GroundHog forage radish root!
Look at the size of his Purple Top Turnips!
and the leaves on his Rangi Rape are humongous!
Always interesting to see what known species and varieties look like so if you have any to share please post em up and share the fruits of your labors in the brassica plots... :way:
Look at the size of his Purple Top Turnips!
and the leaves on his Rangi Rape are humongous!
Always interesting to see what known species and varieties look like so if you have any to share please post em up and share the fruits of your labors in the brassica plots... :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
They can survive some light frosts and continue growing but of course have their limits so keep us posted on how low the temps get and if yours continue to grow...I suspect they will still put on some growth yet....:way: