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Tree Planting

Anyone know if there is ANY benefit to wildlife with Ohio Buckeye trees??? I would assume not since I think they are NOT edible for humans and no one has ever mentioned them BUT i thought i'd ask. I picked up about 15 freshly fallen nuts today that I just think are cool so I might plant them just for the heck of it.

I also picked up some Shellbark hickory for a friend that wanted some BUT I probably won't plant any of those as I have tons and I don't think they do much for deer.

If you are looking for Acorns, drive down the road and you'll see them all over the place!!!! now's the time! I've been impressed with a few Burr Oak trees- how big the acorns were and how much deer sign was by them- regular white oak is probably better BUT couldn't hurt to do a few Burr's if for some odd reason you didn't have them.
 
Checked on some of my sawtooth oaks yesterday...13 years old, no acorns yet but they sure grow fast!

Sawtoothoaks.jpg



Moresawtooths.jpg



These are some younger hybrid oaks from Okios that I know longer know the names of... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Hybridoak.jpg


Hybridoak2.jpg


Hybridoak3.jpg


They have all been beaten to death yearly by bucks on a rampage and this shorter "bushier" type oak they seem to love...

Freshdamage.jpg


The sawtooths took hits early on but eventually out grew their attackers.

Buckdamage.jpg


The hybrids are expensive so "do as I say not as I do" and fence them right off the get go! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
Dbltree, I've never seen a sawtooth oak before. From the picture it sure looks like a shingle oak. Obviously shingle oaks are great for yearly acorns as well (and growing like crazy in all locations!). Would you consider the two trees similar? Would you choose the Sawtooth over the shingle oak IF you didn't have a billion shingle oaks already? I sure think Shingle oaks are great trees for many reasons!!! (cover so late, yearly acorns, fast growth, adaptability, etc.).
 
I've never seen a sawtooth oak before. From the picture it sure looks like a shingle oak.



The leaves look exactly like shingle oak but the bark is different and the trees seem to grow straighter and faster.

Sawtooths are asian oaks and when they start producing, do so prolificlly. They do retain their leaves through the winter like single oaks so that is another advantage.

In the south they have spread some much like the shingle oak does here but we are on the northern limits of it's range so it remains to be seen what will happen here.

I'm guessing at one of these days I'll be one of the first to find out here in Iowa.....
 
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I have GAZILLIONS of shingle oak along with tons of red, white, black, swamp, etc. Basically compared with Shingle, do you feel I have any need for the sawtooth? any advantages over shingle? (sounds like from your above post they are SIMILAR in benefit)

*Also, any benefit to Buckeye trees?

THANKS!!!



I think in your case with smaller plantings I would stick with hybrid native oaks. For those planting larger plantings then sawtooths might be a good option.

I don't really know about the buckeye's?
 
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Not to change the subject too much... But I plan on picking up acorns here real soon, as many of the oaks are loaded with them this year. What is the best way to distinguish the difference between a Bur & White Oak? I understand they're both in the white oak family, and have a lot's of similarites. Thanks
 
What is the best way to distinguish the difference between a Bur & White Oak?



Look at the surrounding trees, and look at the acorns themselves. 9 times out of 10 a bur oak acorn will still be surrounded by it's cap with just a tip of the acorn sticking out. They will be a little bigger than marbles. White oaks acorns tend to separate from the cap and range in size. They are likely to be about the size of the last digit of your middle finger.

You may wish to have already looked. I was out last weekend and the trees were dropping like crazy. Several of the acorns I found had already sprouted. The ones that hadn't sprouted were very swelled up and ready to.

I have never read anything where deer eat buckeyes...and I'm not sure that they could get one open. The "meat/nut" probalby isn't real palatable. Plant Buckeye's for looks and variety not as a food source.
 
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also bur oak caps will be burly (hairy) at the end and as turtl stated that they will be at least 1/2 covered by the cap.


Dbltree, I've never seen a sawtooth oak before. From the picture it sure looks like a shingle oak. Obviously shingle oaks are great for yearly acorns as well (and growing like crazy in all locations!). Would you consider the two trees similar? Would you choose the Sawtooth over the shingle oak IF you didn't have a billion shingle oaks already? I sure think Shingle oaks are great trees for many reasons!!! (cover so late, yearly acorns, fast growth, adaptability, etc.).



they are very prolific acorn producers. I keep mine at bay and diversify my timbers more....they rank right up there with honey locusts as far as seeding rate on my place. The early succession timbers are covered in locust, hickory and shingle oaks with few whites so I cut out around the white and leave some shingles for added diversity.
 
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You guys may have covered this already, and if so I apologize for the request to repeat, but what do you use for residual herbicide around your nut and fruit trees? Is there a once-a-year variety or do you usually do spring & fall? Thanks!!

DblTree: Those sawtooth oaks of yours that were 13yo but not producing ... have they never produced or are they just off this year? I have several in the 5-yr range that are producing already. Can't recall which outfit I bought them from but I can research if you're interested.



I like to use Oust which is a pretty potent residual herbicide but there are others such as Surflan AS. There are several good links back in this thread with more herbicide options.

So far, my sawtooths have never produced acorns that I am aware of. I believe they came from Cold Stream Farm nursery in MI...but I can't remember what I had for breakfast let alone 13 years ago...

Different parent trees certainly make a difference and were always looking for more/better options, so share your source if you can find it.

For a time NWTF was offering "Gobbler" Sawtooths that were supposed to produce earlier and be very heavy yielders of slightly smaller acorns (perhaps more like shingle oaks)

Could be you got some of those? :)
 
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I got most of my Sawtooths from the PA Game Commission's Howard Nursery. They sell 2-3yo seedlings each Spring, at very reasonable prices. I've had numerous Sawtooths for <5yrs, and they're producing good acorn numbers. Interestingly, in an effort to get a jump on things a few years back I paid ~$100 each for 3 sawtooths. Since then, one got broken off at the trunk in an ice storm and the other 2 are producing very minimal acorn numbers. Lesson: Buy good quality. Howard Nursery stock is good.

I'm big on Chestnuts too. Deer love them. I have Chinese and another variety of hybrids called Dunstan. Both have produced at 5-6 years of age (2-3 yrs in the ground on my farm). Dunstans are kind of pricey but great quality. If you have bears, you're at risk for broken Chestnut trees once they start producing. Fortunately, in my area of eastern PA, we don't have many bears .... yet.
 
I ordered some SPRING trees from the DNR. I'll still order a ton of other stuff like fruit trees, oaks, etc from specialty nurseries BUT here's what I ordered from DNR (a few of the trees I just ordered because I like them- not much of wildlife benefit), here's my order, THOUGHTS?!?!?!?!? *I have tons of big hardwoods already SO I am concentrating on shrubs, etc. **All are 17"-24"

Red Cedar- 1,200
Persimmon- 100
Highbush Cran- 200
Nannyberry- 200
Arrowwood- 200
Elderberry- 100
Choke Cherry- 100
Nanking Cherry- 100
Wild Plum- 100
Ninebark- 200
Hazelnut- 300
Redosier Dogwood 100
Gray Dogwood- 300
Silky Dogwood- 100
Buttonbush- 100
Serviceberry- 100
hybrid willow- 200
Sycamore- 100
Northern Pecan- 50
Aspen- 50
Swamp oak- 50
Pin Oak- 50
 
Sounds like you got a butt load of trees to plant.



Yikes! I guess so! :)

Pretty good selection though Skip...planting trees and shrubs is an awesome legacy and it's always great to see people plant them just because they "love trees"...

I think all of the shrubs will certainly enhance your property (or any property) for wildlife of all kinds including whitetails.

That's been my thinking as well although I don't have as great a selection as you will have!

Take care to mark the different varieties/species to see how they do and pros/cons of each over the next 5-10 years.

I try to plant shrubs along roadways for "poacher screens" and mast producing trees farther "inland"...

Hope you have a tree planter lined up!:)
 
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This time of year I spend most of my spare time in a tree stand and I often pass the time staring out at the landscape around me and think, gee...I need some trees in that spot and if I had some shrubs along there, what a great travel corridor that would make! Hey...there are worse things to think about! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

I snapped a few pics of some of my trees as I walked out the other day.

Here are some 2 year old Red Cedars that came from the Iowa State Nursery and I controlled weeds with Oust herbicide.You can see that in only a few years they have reached a point of "out competing" the grass and weeds.

3yrRedCedar.jpg


I'm not sure if it is weed suppresion or better stock but they sure seem to grow faster then wild red cedars! I feel that red cedars are bar none the best year around screen and bedding cover here in Iowa. They are native and very easy to grow.

RedCedar10-21-08.jpg


The sawtooths have sure grown but no acorns yet...they do make a good screen because they hold leaves nearly all winter.

Sawtooth10-08.jpg


The High Bush Cranberry's are loaded with berries but they loose their leaves early,so don't use them as a screen.

HighBushCranberry-2.jpg


I've had great success using Oust herbicide but Oust is used primarly on conifers and hardwoods. I've used it on some types of shrubs but not the extensive list of varieties such as those in Skip's previous post.

I think I will try to test different herbicides this spring to see how different seedlings react to different herbicides. If only one is used we have noway of knowing if mortality was caused in part by a specific herbicide.

We also have no way of knowing if growth is affected in any way.

I feel that a combination of Surflan A.S. and Simazine might a safer alternative when planting shrubs that might be sensitive to potent herbicides such as Oust.

I would also add that planting the area to low growing white clover and mowing can be very effective because tree seedlings can quickly rise above clover.

Keeping a "band" sprayed strip around seedlings does help keep rodents from girdling new seedlings.

Here are updated labels, sources and additional links to using herbicides in trees, some that also contain info on calibrating handheld sprayers.

Surflan A.S. Herbicide

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Surflan A.S. herbicide is a <span style="color: #FF0000">preemergence</span> surface-applied product for
the control of annual grasses and many broadleaf weeds in ornamental plantings, bulbs, ground covers/perennials, established warm-season turfgrass, Christmas tree plantations, non-bearing trees and vines, and non-cropland and industrial sites.

Surflan A.S. is orange in color and
may cause temporary discoloration of sprayed surfaces. </div></div>

Oust XP herbicide

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OUST® XP may be used for general weed control on
terrestrial noncrop sites and for selective weed control in
certain types of unimproved turf grasses on these same sites.

OUST® XP may also be used for selective weed control in
forest site preparation and in the release of certain conifers
and hardwoods
.

OUST® XP can be tank mixed with other
herbicides registered for use in forestry and noncrop sites;
when tank mixing, use the most restrictive limitations from
the labeling of both products.

When applied as spray, OUST® XP controls weeds by both
<span style="color: #FF0000">preemergence and postemergence</span> activity
.
When applied on dry fertilizer, OUST® XP controls weeds by preemergence activity.

When applied as a spray, the best results are
obtained when the application is made before the early
stages of weed growth before weeds develop an established
root system.

When applied on dry fertilizer, the best results
are obtained when the application is made before weed
emergence. The best results are obtained when the
application is made before or during the early stages of
weed growth before weeds develop an established root
system.

Moisture is required to move OUST® XP into the
root zone of weeds for preemergence control.

When applying to newly planted seedlings, wait until rain has settled and closed planting furrows orinjury may result.

OUST® XP should be applied before the hardwood tree
seedlings or transplants break dormancy (bud swell stage).
Applications made over the top after the trees have broken
dormancy may injure or kill the trees.

</div></div>

SIMAZINE 4L Herbicide

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SIMAZINE 4L: This product is a herbicide that <span style="color: #FF0000">should be applied before weeds emerge</span> or following removal of weed growth. It controls a wide variety of annual Broadleaf and Grass weeds when used atselective rates in agricultural and ornamental crops.

Where a range of application rates is given, use the lower rate on Coarser textured soil and soil lower in organic matter; use the higher rate on Finer textured soil and soil higher in organic matter.

This product enters weeds mainly through their roots; moisture is
needed to move it into the root zone. Very dry soil conditions and lack of rainfall following application may necessitate shallow cultivation orrotary hoeing. </div></div>

Townsend Chemical Division carries basically all these herbicides and many more. They will divide and sell smaller quanities of expensive herbicides like Oust.

Surflan Source Cooper Seed also carries a wide variety of herbicides but many of these can also be purchased locally at your ag supply source.

Weed Control in Tree Plantings

Weed Control for Seedlings

Chemical Weed Control in Tree Plantings

Grass Weed Control in Trees

Don't forget to start thinking about what trees and shrubs you'll want to plant this next spring: State Forest Nursery Catalog

Just some things to ponder while your waiting for that monster buck to show up this fall... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
I walked around the woods over the weekend and checked all of the tree plantings. Most of them seem to be doing fine except that something has dug up all of my crabapple trees and ate the roots. I planted about a dozen 3-4 ft crabapples trees, and every one of them was dug up with the roots only, eaten. Whatever it was, didn't touch any other tree, except the crabapples. I guess I'll have to put some wire on the ground next year!

Any ideas of what does this? I'll try to get some pictures tonight.
 
something has dug up all of my crabapple trees and ate the roots


ok...that is a new one??

I have never seen that happen so I'm curious if anyone else has run into this problem? Usually it's everything above ground that get's hit.

Glad the rest are doing good however...

For anyone considering trees and shrubs this next spring (or even right now)...go back to the front of this thread where I have re-posted detailed information and pictures of many common trees and shrubs that might be considered ina wildlife tree planting. I also added more detailed herbicide information as well.

I have applied for REAP funding to do some additional plantings myself but I need to wait for approval before ordering.

Apply for cost share assistance through your local NRCS office who will then forward it to your local IDNR forester. He will go over a planting plan with you and then send it back to the committee for approval.

I talked to my forester this morning and tree planting is $600 an acre for which they cost share 75%. This covers seedlings, planting costs and herbicides. If you do it yourself or hire it done this is a big help in the easing the expense of planting.

A minimum of 3 acres is required, so check back at the beginning of this thread and see how trees and shrubs might enhance your property for whitetails and other wildlife. :)
 
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Does anyone have much experience with Bur-English Trees? From all the reading i've done on it, it seems to be a fast growing, high mast production, superior root system, and a hardy tree. Oikos says it's their most successful hybrid oak available.

Idaho University offers superstock seedlings as a fairly reasonable price, so I thought I'd try a few.



I have planted some but they are too young to pass judgment yet. At this point I see no reason that you would not be happy with them.

That's a good price for them at IU...might have to order some myself! :)
 
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Ok, I am out of project-rehab BUT I've fallen off the wagon already!!!! Just ordered a few trees from http://www.NWTF.org under the "Turkey Shoppe" "Land Management" sections. I actually am putting some projects on hold this year like ordering from Oikios and a few other places because I'll have this and 4,100 other trees to plant which include fencing a new apple orchard. So, for this year I'm limiting to iowadnr.com trees, these and apple/pear tree order. Next year I'll do more hybrids and specialty trees. I felt like these trees below just offered me a little more diversity to add to the mix and I felt like getting a few different food source choices beyond DNR trees (which are EXCELLENT). not sure if NWTF is good on pricing BUT seems pretty decent (pry could shop around for a bit cheaper).

Bare Root Seedlings $40.00 $80.00
Chinese Chestnut [986327X] Zones 4-9
1 Bare Root Seedlings $42.50 $42.50
Common Apple [986328X] Zones 3-9
1 Bare Root Seedlings $42.50 $42.50
Chickasaw Plum [986412X] Zones 5-9
1 Bare Root Seedlings $42.50 $42.50
Sawtooth Oak [986336X] Zones 5-9
1 Container Grown Seedlings $20.00 $20.00
Gobbler Sawtooth Oak [986403X]
1 Container Grown Seedlings $20.00 $20.00
Swamp Chestnut Oak [986423X] (same description as bare root)
 
I have had some trees dug up, but it seems that whatever dug them up was more interested in the grubs or whatever else they were looking for in the easy to dig soil I created. Never saw much, if any roots being eaten.
 
I am out of project-rehab BUT I've fallen off the wagon already!!!!



Your hopeless Skip...kinda like me! :)

I have 3600 trees coming from the State Nursery, 200 trees from the Idaho nursery, a handful from Oikos and Coldstream Farms as well as the apple and pear trees.

I'll plant them and watch them grow just like the other 10,000 + trees and shrubs I've planted in the past 15 years.

In my lifetime...I can only guess because I started when I was 9 years old following a tradition of my father and grandfather.

Plant trees...10 or 10,000 it's an awesome legacy to leave behind! :)
 
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In my lifetime...I can only guess because I started when I was 9 years old following a tradition of my father and grandfather.

Plant trees...10 or 10,000 it's an awesome legacy to leave behind!





no doubt DBT!!! I am following my grandpa whom I spent a lot of time with when young in the garden. He is old enough now that I go plant what he wants since he can no longer do it, but I am thankful he opened the gate so to speak for me!!!

I am between planting 10-10,000 and hope to hit that mark with a 75% success rate on survival.

I am hoping to switch over to seeds exclusively after this year instead of bare root seedlings. Now air pruned ones or ones grown in containers would suit me fine, but I hate the transplant shock most bare root trees show.

I bought a packet of american beauty berry seeds ($2.50) this past spring and grew them in root trapper containers till fall. I could have spent 50 bucks buying seedlings for all those beauty berries that I planted for 2.50 cents and a few root trapper containers I already had.
 
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