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Your thoughts on Lakosky, Glesinger?

bwese

Active Member
Lakosky and Drury's feed anilogics year round, that's got to add to the chance for the deer to reach max potential in as fast as time as possible. If I could afford to feed deer year round or seasonally when they need it most I'd feed that also.
 

Daver

PMA Member
Lakosky and Drury's feed anilogics year round, that's got to add to the chance for the deer to reach max potential in as fast as time as possible. If I could afford to feed deer year round or seasonally when they need it most I'd feed that also.

Interesting...that is just about what I suspected was at play. I wonder if there is any way to quantify what a given buck would be w/o this supplemental feed v. with it.
 

Tim Hull

PMA Member
The supplemental feeding of does while pregnant doesn't hurt. According to the Biologist on Don Higgins stated that is as important as anything.
 

JNRBRONC

Moderator
The supplemental feeding of does while pregnant doesn't hurt. According to the Biologist on Don Higgins stated that is as important as anything.

Doesn’t hurt. How much percentage is this true? I hate statistics.


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madplotter

PMA Member
Hey guys. I see Lee Lakosky once again breaks his personal best buck and Greg Glesinger shoots another 220 plus some incher as well. This is not a jealousy post, I’m happy for them and have no doubt they’ve worked their tails off for their success. But I am curious as to the how they’re doing it part of it. I’m sure they have lots of great land to hunt and I’ve always thought that there are tons of great hunters that if they had 1000 acres in Iowa they too would kill a lot of booners. But even w a lot of land, you still have neighbors. You still have ehd. Possible poaching. Car deer accidents. You still can’t control whether a 5 1/2 to 7 1/2 yr old buck tops out at 150” or 170” much less 230 or whatever.
How do you figure they seem to shoot one bigger almost every single year? Do you think there’s something more to the anilogics mineral than maybe we give it credit for? Are they doing something else management wise/food plot wise that most of us aren’t? Just incredible that they can continue to kill free ranging animals of THAT caliber. Crazy

I think you questions are good ones and I don't see any jealousy in your post at all. I'm going off the original topic but this is how I view the "upper crust" of hunting personalities...

I'm sure plenty of folks on here have talked to Lee, he is so accessible and is willing to share any info he can. That said, he lives in a different world than most of us but at the same time we can sort through what applies and what does not. I think Mark & Terry Drury , Bill Winke and several other successful hunters will share about anything you want to know, especially the Midwest based people. It's part of our nature in the Midwest. For these reasons, I think these are pretty good folks and they share my values, which is important to me. The neatest stories to me is not how many monsters they shoot but their passion for developing habitat. Bill Winke's 2 segments on the purchase and sale of his farm and then sharing the past hunts on the old farm were cool but sad at the same time. Think about how personal and emotional that had to be for him and he shared it. I watched that show thinking about my seasons 10-15 years ago when he was getting started on his farm and we had just bought ours. So many of these folks are good for our sport and they are likely responsible for igniting a passion in so many new hunters.

Another part of this discussion are the people who push the envelope to shoot "big" deer. I have a neighbor who will push any law and any permission he can to shoot a 160"+ deer. If the farmer won't grant him permission he will go to the landowner and ask them, likely someone who lives out of state and doesn't understand property rights, and charm them into saying yes. He sneaks in, which tells you he knows he's in the wrong, and shoots a deer or gets caught then everything blows up into a bunch of neighborhood drama. This has happened time and time again. He will then put other hunters down because he thinks he's a better "hunter". Don't be this guy just to meet a number quota.

My advice, be thankful we live in a time and a place we can still chase whitetails and most importantly, put your family first and seek that balance.
 
Huge bucks anywhere is just incredibly hard. There’s not as many as perception would have u believe. Any folks u think knock down tons of giants- it’s not as many as u think...... I can promise you there’s multiple whole seasons where there isn’t a 190”+ to hunt. I know multiple large land owners... countless farms where there’s whole seasons without a deer XYZ person really wants to chase.
In general- the ONLY way to have giants every year.... u better have like 5-8 “big farms” that have been managed right. That way- on a rough year- 3-4 of them may have nothing big but u still have a few farms with big ones. The amount of people who do have this or are capable of it: .001% of hunters I bet ;). Very few.
The next best thing..... a guy who can put the work in for years to have 10-20 “good farms to hunt”. Again- very few will do this. The amount of time & headaches & work is staggering. If a guy is willing to do this- I hope they are rewarded. No one, including myself, would want to deal with all this. But it would result in giants. No ? in my mind.

so - guys who own, lease, have permission- ETC, ETC on “tons of farms”..... now u have to spend time on all of em.... pinpoint some shooters- takes tons of time. Then u gotta set up on em... get to 20-30 yards or whatever. Hope they don’t vanish. Hope there’s a food source that maybe u can pattern in October. Or roll the dice u find em during rut. Still neighbors, poaching, ehd, bucks that leave, u name it.
The guys who “shoot tons of big bucks” - they don’t shoot as many big bucks as u think. It’s ridiculously hard. When u get over 190-200” - it’s just so few deer have those genetics & reach an old age. IMO - most deer need to get to 6-7-ish to hit 200”. Some do younger but it’s more rare. To get that age and genetic combo to work out & seal the deal at 20 yards- so hard!!!! To do with consistency- at BIG deer- either: doesn’t really happen with consistency or it’s so much land, time, work, travel - it’s mind boggling.
When u talk 200” deer..... I mean, I know some guys that have hunted 20-35 years that I think are “top notch”.... maybe 3-4 200” deer is most I can think of????
100% agree- u can have best hunting skills but not be around giant deer. I know guys from MI or MN or WI who are incredible hunters.... usually shoot 120-140” deer at biggest - cause that’s what their area produces at the peak or best for their area. Hunting skills and big deer have some overlap but u still have to add elements that are huge obstacles... it really means only a tiny tiny tiny amount of guys can be successful at or or even want to do what that entails.
If you could get a pretty good estimate of how many bucks were killed over 190 last year in Iowa,how many of those farms were managed to the level of the Lakoskys,Drurys,Kiskys?I would be willing to say 75% of those bucks were killed on farms that didn't have PRESSURE,,,,Remember these TV hunters,that's how they make a living with them holding bags of seeds and equipment in commercials.Think about that,not saying it doesn't contribute to GROWING BIG DEER, but I think unpressured bucks makes more of a difference. Just my opinion.
 

Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
If you could get a pretty good estimate of how many bucks were killed over 190 last year in Iowa,how many of those farms were managed to the level of the Lakoskys,Drurys,Kiskys?I would be willing to say 75% of those bucks were killed on farms that didn't have PRESSURE,,,,Remember these TV hunters,that's how they make a living with them holding bags of seeds and equipment in commercials.Think about that,not saying it doesn't contribute to GROWING BIG DEER, but I think unpressured bucks makes more of a difference. Just my opinion.

I’d say you make a fair point. I agree. Over 190” deer…. I’d for sure say 50% or more are on “highly managed farms”. I think there’s a lot that get shot on “low pressure or overlooked farms” too. Or farms where it’s 3 days of shotgun hunters & then back to quiet. I also think many of the OLD 190’s on “average farms” don’t actually get shot. I think by that age they become “too hard to kill” for the average hunter….

The amount of absolute mammoths I’ve known about my buddies were hunting over last decade is astounding …. Many of which never did get shot. Vanished into their memories. Back before trail cameras in early 2000’s…. Every neighbor we’d know with small farms would periodically pick up absolute bomber giant sheds. Mega giants. Vast majority never surfaced later being shot- no one knows what happened to them…. Countless giants.

As I agree with u that having huge farms with low pressure & food is a GAME CHANGER!!! …. & it is …. We gotta keep in mind 3 things….
1) let’s say theres “50 guys” who take it to that insane level of management. Say it’s “1000 acres each”. That’s 50,000 acres. 35 million acres in iowa @ 8% timber is: 2,800,000 acres. They own a blip of those acres.
2) I think we all understand…. With no names…. If u are one of the “50 guys” or whatever who can buy 1,000 acres or whatever….. it’s probably an astounding amount of work u put in. U pry sacrificed part of your life to do it (sure- some folks maybe inherited some but I bet the minority). Its probably stressful at times. It’s a mountain of work. Taking care of farms is an immense task. Even if you have an employee doing it- there’s some major time, stress, money & work that goes into this that…. 99% of folks wouldn’t want to do what it took to get there or to maintain the ongoing responsibilities around it.
3) we all need to remember (& this isn’t directed at anyone- just a general statement) …. This sport in REALITY is and should be about competing with YOURSELF. Not other hunters. Not a guy that shoots countless 200’s. When u hunt 3 small farms- u can’t compare yourself with a guy that hunts 10,000 acres. It’s not the same but doesn’t need to be. The more folks hunt for their own goals & standards & disregard the incredibly rare cases where a few folks in whole state shoot giants yearly - the better off they will be & the more they will enjoy hunting. I personally think folks will enjoy hunting more if they don’t compare their results to others. Tune out. Enjoy your own pursuit & journey. Also realize - the dudes that own huge farms and shoot giants- probably shot their share of dinkers back in the day. They had a journey like we all do. Last- if u are the dude that wants to own “1000 acres of premo stuff” ….. this is America where that dream still can be achieved. And it can. That’s anyone’s opportunity that wants it. But compete against yourself & your own goals & enjoy the limited amount of seasons we have in the greatest state in the country.


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newfarmer

Active Member
About 20 years ago- my buddies dad sold 15 of his “high quality” pen raised does to one of the big names- it so happened they had some high fences around these farms. Now, 20 years later they are hammering giant after giant. It’s easier to get does to live than a buck is what he was told. I will never forget that conversation.
 

Tmayer13

PMA Member
About 20 years ago- my buddies dad sold 15 of his “high quality” pen raised does to one of the big names- it so happened they had some high fences around these farms. Now, 20 years later they are hammering giant after giant. It’s easier to get does to live than a buck is what he was told. I will never forget that conversation.
Well come on man, now your leaving us hanging.......
 

newfarmer

Active Member
Well come on man, now your leaving us hanging.......
Ha- yeah, I don’t necessarily plan on “outing” them. I guess in mentioning it- it may be more than just their practices or food plots, pressure, etc to grow big deer. On their farms if they haul in does with ear tags and tell people don’t shoot- the chances of pen deer staying in one area is fairly high (especially with the food they provide) and could very quickly swing genetics on the up side. If they hauled in even 5 does a year, twins the following year of 200” genetic fawns on these hundred(s) acre farms will add up to superior genetics in an area. Aka- Decatur County. I know the ones I’m talking about ended up there
 

Obsessed

Well-Known Member
Ha- yeah, I don’t necessarily plan on “outing” them. I guess in mentioning it- it may be more than just their practices or food plots, pressure, etc to grow big deer. On their farms if they haul in does with ear tags and tell people don’t shoot- the chances of pen deer staying in one area is fairly high (especially with the food they provide) and could very quickly swing genetics on the up side. If they hauled in even 5 does a year, twins the following year of 200” genetic fawns on these hundred(s) acre farms will add up to superior genetics in an area. Aka- Decatur County. I know the ones I’m talking about ended up there
THIS is the way I would do it if I had a large enough chunk of private land. Best and cheapest way to manually introduce premium genetics into an area. Borderline genius, I'd say.
 

Obsessed

Well-Known Member
Shooting giant bucks consistently boils down to bucks surviving to maturity (5+). So, finding big areas that are managed for this are key. All it takes is a couple of weak links in a neighborhood to bring the whole area down.
Understood, and I thought I covered that with stating 'if I had a large enough chunk of private land', but without good genetics to begin with, bucks won't get giant, no matter how long they live. Not saying good genetics aren't already present, or can't wonder in naturally, but introducing fertile pedigree does is a great way to establish premium genetics right out of the gate. Not an absolute guarantee, but a great strategic action. Especially if they have ear tags and there is standing instruction not to shoot them.
 

Rous14

Well-Known Member
Shooting giant bucks consistently boils down to bucks surviving to maturity (5+). So, finding big areas that are managed for this are key. All it takes is a couple of weak links in a neighborhood to bring the whole area down.
No question that age is one of the top 2 or 3 must haves to kill a big one but I would just add that I hunt in an area where the soil is as good as just about anywhere in the Midwest, habitat is insanely good, and age structure is fantastic. Very well managed area in general, large chunks of land. We send the teeth in on pretty much everything we shoot and in 5 years we’ve averaged 3 bucks per year all of which were a minimum of 4.5 yrs old with half being 6 to 8 yrs old (yes, my buddy killed a buck that aged at 8.5, it was pretty cool).

Despite this, the highest scoring deer of the 17 we’ve killed has been just shy of 160”. So even with good age structure it’s still incredibly unlikely at least in my experience. To skips point, wild deer that have the genetic potential to grow a 180-200” rack are just unicorns. So extremely rare. That’s why I go back to my original post and am fascinated with how a few of these guys seem to kill one every year. It defies all logic and laws of probability. It’s also why, fair or not, so many rumors (like the one posted a few threads back) and skeptics question it. It’s only natural. It’s not too different than hitting the lotto every year.
 

Tmayer13

PMA Member
No question that age is one of the top 2 or 3 must haves to kill a big one but I would just add that I hunt in an area where the soil is as good as just about anywhere in the Midwest, habitat is insanely good, and age structure is fantastic. Very well managed area in general, large chunks of land. We send the teeth in on pretty much everything we shoot and in 5 years we’ve averaged 3 bucks per year all of which were a minimum of 4.5 yrs old with half being 6 to 8 yrs old (yes, my buddy killed a buck that aged at 8.5, it was pretty cool).

Despite this, the highest scoring deer of the 17 we’ve killed has been just shy of 160”. So even with good age structure it’s still incredibly unlikely at least in my experience. To skips point, wild deer that have the genetic potential to grow a 180-200” rack are just unicorns. So extremely rare. That’s why I go back to my original post and am fascinated with how a few of these guys seem to kill one every year. It defies all logic and laws of probability. It’s also why, fair or not, so many rumors (like the one posted a few threads back) and skeptics question it. It’s only natural. It’s not too different than hitting the lotto every year.
your not thinking about this correctly tho. How many acres in that area are you hunting? 100, 200, 500?.....These guys own THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of acres and they also have these farms in several different areas so they are continuously hunting different deer herds. They stay out of areas and let these deer get old and big, feed mineral out of season, have optimal food year round. Your not comparing them equally. And what most of these guys your talking about and even guys here on this forum have found is that 5 yrs old still isn't old enough. I know of managers that wont shoot them under 7.5....

I don't agree with the 180-200 are unicorns...I think there are a lot more out there than what people think.....I see a lot of trail cam photos from a fairly small group of people and there are quite a few big deer out there BUT seeing them and harvesting them are 2 different things
 

Rous14

Well-Known Member
your not thinking about this correctly tho. How many acres in that area are you hunting? 100, 200, 500?.....These guys own THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of acres and they also have these farms in several different areas so they are continuously hunting different deer herds. They stay out of areas and let these deer get old and big, feed mineral out of season, have optimal food year round. Your not comparing them equally. And what most of these guys your talking about and even guys here on this forum have found is that 5 yrs old still isn't old enough. I know of managers that wont shoot them under 7.5....

I don't agree with the 180-200 are unicorns...I think there are a lot more out there than what people think.....I see a lot of trail cam photos from a fairly small group of people and there are quite a few big deer out there BUT seeing them and harvesting them are 2 different things
Splitting hairs a little I guess and maybe our experiences are just different.

If you think of all the bucks in a county or a given township the % of 4.5yr old bucks or older that are walking around with a 180 or larger rack has to be less than 5-10% and when you talk about 200” I’m saying less than 1%

Maybe I’m wrong. You seem to think differently and you may be right, just doesn’t align w my experiences even remotely and that’s 20 years in w central IL (admittedly not Iowa so maybe that’s the difference).

My point was simply that I’ve had in the neighborhood of 30-35 bucks that were 5 or older on my farms over the last 5 seasons and 3 were probably in the 170” range, the rest ranged from 120-160. So despite age, great soil, great habitat and 30 plus mature bucks NONE of them were 180”.
Know of a few 180-200” killed within a mile of me in last few years so there’s a few around but just extremely rare.
 

Rous14

Well-Known Member
your not thinking about this correctly tho. How many acres in that area are you hunting? 100, 200, 500?.....These guys own THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of acres and they also have these farms in several different areas so they are continuously hunting different deer herds. They stay out of areas and let these deer get old and big, feed mineral out of season, have optimal food year round. Your not comparing them equally. And what most of these guys your talking about and even guys here on this forum have found is that 5 yrs old still isn't old enough. I know of managers that wont shoot them under 7.5....

I don't agree with the 180-200 are unicorns...I think there are a lot more out there than what people think.....I see a lot of trail cam photos from a fairly small group of people and there are quite a few big deer out there BUT seeing them and harvesting them are 2 different things
I definitely agree w you though as far as casting a wide net/having tons of ground to hunt.
I’ve always said that if you show me a guy who is consistently killing really big deer he’s 1) hunting in a great state and 2) he has access to tons of farms.
I believe this to be true nearly 100% of the time. Lakosky, Don Higgins, Drurys, Glesinger, etc….
A 500 or even 1000 acre farm just isn’t going to produce a mega giant every single year imo
 

Daver

PMA Member
I definitely agree w you though as far as casting a wide net/having tons of ground to hunt.
I’ve always said that if you show me a guy who is consistently killing really big deer he’s 1) hunting in a great state and 2) he has access to tons of farms.
I believe this to be true nearly 100% of the time. Lakosky, Don Higgins, Drurys, Glesinger, etc….
A 500 or even 1000 acre farm just isn’t going to produce a mega giant every single year imo
I definitely agree with you that any given say 1000 acre farm, no matter where it is, is not guaranteed to have 200"er on it every year. BUT...I do also disagree with you to the extent that some places, and they aren't just 1000 acres normally, nearly always have a buck, or even more than one, on them each year that if it isn't 200"+, it is darn close to that.

These places are as TMayer13 described above in post #117.
 

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