bob-bowhunter
Active Member
Unbelievable buck, Congrats Skip!
That’s why EVERYONE should let their best bucks get to 7.5!!!!!
. Breeding from probably a touch at 2.5 through 6.5. On a serious note/reply- it did go through my head!!! “Wish he had one more year of laying pipe”!!! Since he was 7.5- it doesn’t bug me as bad. It did go through this lunatic brain though!!
. I love trying to thread the needles on a fully mature October buck. Only hunt cold days, no am’s, don’t get burnt out, dress pretty light, etc etc. It’s Frigin hard & way less room for error but dang is it fun.
tracker
Life Member
Wow congrats on the reward of self discipline and willingness to accept possibly harvest by someone else other than yourself.
I seem to think with the dry summer we had in 23 that alot of deer failed to meet previous years growth, not verified but seen the result of it around here as well.
Great to see the young man get to enjoy something that very few people will ever get to experience!
Great hunt!
I seem to think with the dry summer we had in 23 that alot of deer failed to meet previous years growth, not verified but seen the result of it around here as well.
Great to see the young man get to enjoy something that very few people will ever get to experience!
Great hunt!
Brett Morris
PMA Member
You're one of the very best Skip & you truly deserve it more than anyone else!! Congratulations on a heck of a year!!
Windwalker
Life Member
Wow ,tough passing on but worth the wait! Congrats
whitetail_obsession
Active Member
Congrats Skip. That's a giant deer. I just hope i can even see a 200" one day even if just driving around. I don't think I truly understood just how small of an area a big buck like this needs to live. They can find the spots nobody thinks about and if they travel much outside of that area there's a 0.00001% chance they find a hunter who would pass a 200" deer. Great discipline. I have been taking my 6yr old out and he's loving it. I couldn't convince him to shoot a doe for his first deer once he found out he can still hunt shotgun. Glad you got to spend it with your son who's also had a heck of a season too.
Meat Hunter
Life Member
Congrats on a buck of a lifetime.
Marty Edwards
PMA Member
So many things have to come together for something as incredible as this to happen. 8+ years ago, the right buck had to breed the right doe to create the potential for a 230” mega monarch 7+ years later. And then before that…his parents, parents on each side, etc, etc. it’s miraculous. THEN, for him to be allowed to grow to this age, to be passed when he would have scored 200”. To survive winters and coyotes and cars and neighbors and EHD and fences and other bucks. Killing whitetails that score over 200” is like finding a needle in 100 haystacks. Skip, congratulations. Thanks for sharing the story and the pics. They say, “Luck is what happens when hard work and preparation meet opportunity”. Some guys are consistently “luckier” than others. In those cases, I’m convinced it has everything to do with the hard work and preparation part of the equation…creating one’s own luck. You’re one consistently “lucky” feller!
The math on seeing a 200” is pretty interesting now that I just read that last comment. I spent probably 30-40 days afield in MI for say 6 years…. Maybe saw 30 bucks a year let’s call it. Some years maybe 50 & some years as low as 5!!! Call it 30 average. So, 180 bucks in my life there. Never saw anything even 150” while hunting 6 years. My bro did shoot a 174” 8 point which was the biggest buck I personally ever saw in MI. Even driving & glassing the state my whole life, I don’t think I ever saw a 160” deer
As I transformed into full blown deer junky…. fast forward to a gazillion farms across Midwest: MO, KS, IL, NE, etc. I spent an unusually large amount of time afield across all states to the most remote & best areas…. I’d take the whole month of November off (negotiated this with college professors & then negotiated it into my career after college taking all my vacation at once). ….. hunt almost every day in Nov from maybe 20 years old until 35 maybe. Probably another 15-20 days when add in October & December hunting Road trips & endless permission farms. Between 3-4 states a year, I’d guess each state had “10 permission pieces”. So- call it 4 states, 40 farms & 45 days afield…. I bet I saw, Geesh…. 500-ish bucks a year?!?!? Wild guess. Maybe I’m off. From 20 years old to 35, I maybe saw 6 bucks that were 200”. Maybe 8???? But think about how much time & insanity & pure obsession of time to see that many & that’s spending almost all good days afield across countless farms. Means, in 15 years (from 20 to 35), saw 7,500 buck sightings if u said “500 bucks a year” (this is counting dinkers on up). Say I saw 8 over that whole time…. 8 in 7,500 bucks. Geesh they are rare!!! That’s about 1 in 1,000 & only reason I saw the 8, IMO was cause I spent so much Frigin time Out there across so many states & areas.
I have no desire to pound it like that anymore. Zero. Of the 8…. I shot just 1. 36 to 46…. Pry saw a dozen & shot a few but i also had 20-30 years of experience & was far more efficient & 0 to do with “hunting skills” …. I was simply hunting better farms, better age structure, better habitat, better nutrition, etc etc etc. I could hunt far less days & actually have better results simply due to quality of land & management. Put me back in my old stomping grounds of MI…. All my knowledge & skills I have now…. Start me at 47 years old…… if I lived to 87 (40 years) - I believe my chances of seeing a 200” deer would be 0% or slightly higher than that but not much. Now, if I could magically buy a huge farm in MI - chances be better but I still say the vast vast vast majority with even the best in MI- will never see a 200” deer.
They are super rare. The other side of it…. They could be “all over” - any block in Midwest …. They just get killed from 1-3 years old. It’s a low % that have that potential but of all the deer u see - there’s always a small handful u can go “he would do it IF hecould get the age”- they just almost never do. IMHO - more bucks have 200” potential than folks realize…. The only place u can see this play out where those rare gems show is areas where some deer can reach OLD age. Like 7-8 years old. Thay can happen anywhere infrequently & with crazy luck. Only places that happens consistently…. Crazy rare well managed farms. Remote areas of say Saskatchewan & Alberta. Some urban areas across country & any sanctuary/no hunting situations. U see those areas where deer do get to 7-8 & u will find some 200’s with “relative consistency”. The problem is- those rare places like that are as rare as we think of a 200” deer today- just so uncommon & hard to find.
If a guy truly wanted decent chance at 200’s & “there’s a few around on occasion”…. Easiest way to make those needle in haystack #’s become “somewhat common” (rare but doable) …. Move gun to December in MO, IL, MN, WI, NE, IN & IL & make them all a 1 buck state. If that magic change happened ….. 200’s would be “COMMON” & id say u would go from “vast vast majority will NEVER SEE ONE IN THEIR LIFE” to “vast majority will see one & even get one in their life”. I know the desire for 200’s is a wild discussion BUT…. In my mind, I think it’s better for EVERYONE & the resource if we had regs that did allow someone a realistic chance to come across even ONE in their lifetime.
Side note, continuing my ADHD fueled mind wandering…. U wanna solve the NR discussion forever??? U magically change all those states above to dec 1 gun season & 1 buck - ALL OF THEM!!!… NR quotas wouldn’t even be needed as no one would leave their state to “go hunt somewhere better”. Maybe a few for a second buck or a change of scenary but that would wipe out probably 90% of NR hunters traveling to go “hunt where it’s good”…., TRUMP Executive Order, NATION WIDE!!! 1 buck & move guns out of rut…. Every state would flourish & few would ever leave their state for whitetail.
As I transformed into full blown deer junky…. fast forward to a gazillion farms across Midwest: MO, KS, IL, NE, etc. I spent an unusually large amount of time afield across all states to the most remote & best areas…. I’d take the whole month of November off (negotiated this with college professors & then negotiated it into my career after college taking all my vacation at once). ….. hunt almost every day in Nov from maybe 20 years old until 35 maybe. Probably another 15-20 days when add in October & December hunting Road trips & endless permission farms. Between 3-4 states a year, I’d guess each state had “10 permission pieces”. So- call it 4 states, 40 farms & 45 days afield…. I bet I saw, Geesh…. 500-ish bucks a year?!?!? Wild guess. Maybe I’m off. From 20 years old to 35, I maybe saw 6 bucks that were 200”. Maybe 8???? But think about how much time & insanity & pure obsession of time to see that many & that’s spending almost all good days afield across countless farms. Means, in 15 years (from 20 to 35), saw 7,500 buck sightings if u said “500 bucks a year” (this is counting dinkers on up). Say I saw 8 over that whole time…. 8 in 7,500 bucks. Geesh they are rare!!! That’s about 1 in 1,000 & only reason I saw the 8, IMO was cause I spent so much Frigin time Out there across so many states & areas.
I have no desire to pound it like that anymore. Zero. Of the 8…. I shot just 1. 36 to 46…. Pry saw a dozen & shot a few but i also had 20-30 years of experience & was far more efficient & 0 to do with “hunting skills” …. I was simply hunting better farms, better age structure, better habitat, better nutrition, etc etc etc. I could hunt far less days & actually have better results simply due to quality of land & management. Put me back in my old stomping grounds of MI…. All my knowledge & skills I have now…. Start me at 47 years old…… if I lived to 87 (40 years) - I believe my chances of seeing a 200” deer would be 0% or slightly higher than that but not much. Now, if I could magically buy a huge farm in MI - chances be better but I still say the vast vast vast majority with even the best in MI- will never see a 200” deer.
They are super rare. The other side of it…. They could be “all over” - any block in Midwest …. They just get killed from 1-3 years old. It’s a low % that have that potential but of all the deer u see - there’s always a small handful u can go “he would do it IF hecould get the age”- they just almost never do. IMHO - more bucks have 200” potential than folks realize…. The only place u can see this play out where those rare gems show is areas where some deer can reach OLD age. Like 7-8 years old. Thay can happen anywhere infrequently & with crazy luck. Only places that happens consistently…. Crazy rare well managed farms. Remote areas of say Saskatchewan & Alberta. Some urban areas across country & any sanctuary/no hunting situations. U see those areas where deer do get to 7-8 & u will find some 200’s with “relative consistency”. The problem is- those rare places like that are as rare as we think of a 200” deer today- just so uncommon & hard to find.
If a guy truly wanted decent chance at 200’s & “there’s a few around on occasion”…. Easiest way to make those needle in haystack #’s become “somewhat common” (rare but doable) …. Move gun to December in MO, IL, MN, WI, NE, IN & IL & make them all a 1 buck state. If that magic change happened ….. 200’s would be “COMMON” & id say u would go from “vast vast majority will NEVER SEE ONE IN THEIR LIFE” to “vast majority will see one & even get one in their life”. I know the desire for 200’s is a wild discussion BUT…. In my mind, I think it’s better for EVERYONE & the resource if we had regs that did allow someone a realistic chance to come across even ONE in their lifetime.
Side note, continuing my ADHD fueled mind wandering…. U wanna solve the NR discussion forever??? U magically change all those states above to dec 1 gun season & 1 buck - ALL OF THEM!!!… NR quotas wouldn’t even be needed as no one would leave their state to “go hunt somewhere better”. Maybe a few for a second buck or a change of scenary but that would wipe out probably 90% of NR hunters traveling to go “hunt where it’s good”…., TRUMP Executive Order, NATION WIDE!!! 1 buck & move guns out of rut…. Every state would flourish & few would ever leave their state for whitetail.
tall@wide
PMA Member
This pretty well sums 200" deer up perfectly. I have been hunting 44 years and hunting the Midwest since 2008. I've had 2 200" bucks to hunt in all those years on some incredible Midwest farms. I have seen bucks with 200" potential on several occasions, but neighbors always shoot them when they are young never giving them the chance to reach their potential.
Id agree that way more deer have 200" potential than people realize. They simply do not get old enough.
Not a 200, but I shot a mid 90s deer in 2020 that you would not have looked twice at thru 4 years old. At 5 he was "Ok". Maybe 160. At 6 blew up. And I'm pretty sure looking back, had I passed him at 6 he may have got there. Point being. The odds of that deer making it past 5 are very rare. Alot of it is trigger control and some of it you simply can't do much about (ehd, cars, coyotes). Most situations, a deer like that gets shot at 3-5 years old and you would NEVER EVER think it had giant potential. I think that scenario plays out WAY MORE than folks realize.
And some deer are just genetic freaks. I personally know of at least 5 200s that were taken at 4. One was 230!! A client got tooth aging results back for a 200+ deer he shot last year. 4 1/2!! I have to say I was surprised at that one.
Not a 200, but I shot a mid 90s deer in 2020 that you would not have looked twice at thru 4 years old. At 5 he was "Ok". Maybe 160. At 6 blew up. And I'm pretty sure looking back, had I passed him at 6 he may have got there. Point being. The odds of that deer making it past 5 are very rare. Alot of it is trigger control and some of it you simply can't do much about (ehd, cars, coyotes). Most situations, a deer like that gets shot at 3-5 years old and you would NEVER EVER think it had giant potential. I think that scenario plays out WAY MORE than folks realize.
And some deer are just genetic freaks. I personally know of at least 5 200s that were taken at 4. One was 230!! A client got tooth aging results back for a 200+ deer he shot last year. 4 1/2!! I have to say I was surprised at that one.
Wi transplant
PMA Member
We got a 183 gross typical that netted 171 (boone) and was only 3.5 yrs old! No history with deer he only weighed 157 dressed ! So who knows what the potential was on that deer ! I agree most never get old enough.
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Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
I had a farm in Lucas county once.... I had a mid 60's 2 year old come into a plot one time. My labador was bigger than the deer. Baby deer with crazy giant antlers. Still very vivid in my mind.
Daver
PMA Member
I will confess to having shot one myself about like that. ^^ I didn't weigh it, but the body was not big relative to his rack and we later determined that he was likely 3.5, maybe 4.5. While he scored in the upper 160's, I really do wish I hadn't whacked him that night so we could see what he could have turned in to.
I have seen a good number of bucks plateau, even if they are 6+, in the high 150's and into the 160's. But every so often one can "break through" that ceiling and really explode, but so few are given that chance. Even when there is a "prodigy" buck around...he usually gets whacked by the time he is 4, because he is a "giant", etc.
Buckscrape
Well-Known Member
You folks in Iowa and other Midwest states have the best chance to see a whitetail grow to it's full potential. Your state(s) just have to implement a one buck rule. Your number one killer of bucks is the hunter.
Here in Saskatchewan our number one killer is winter. As much area as there is here, we only have a one DEER rule. The odds of a deer grossing over 200 here is actually horrendous. If I took an area here with a 20 mile radius and my home (really good deer country) as the center, there's been maybe 20 taken in the last 50 yrs ( I'm probably over on my guess). I think a 180 here is like your 200 there. In '21, the best year in probably the last 25, there were 12 non-typs that netted over 200, probably another 20 grossed over 200, in all of Saskatchewan! And here, 80% of the big deer get scored and entered in the provincial records (because it's a big deal!). Then that winter was early and brutal and we probably lost 80% of the deer. I've seen my once in a lifetime 200+ and I don't expect to see another. And I'm in control of about 5000 acres (half that's bush/timber) with only 3 to 4 deer taken off of it annually. Like Daver said, a vast majority of bucks here plateau at 150, the odd one grosses in the 170s, and then you get the genetically exceptional one that somehow survives to it's full potential.
So ya, Iowa has the best odds of growing those big deer, but the two, three buck tags/person is not helping those odds.
I'll quit the rambling now, ha.
Here in Saskatchewan our number one killer is winter. As much area as there is here, we only have a one DEER rule. The odds of a deer grossing over 200 here is actually horrendous. If I took an area here with a 20 mile radius and my home (really good deer country) as the center, there's been maybe 20 taken in the last 50 yrs ( I'm probably over on my guess). I think a 180 here is like your 200 there. In '21, the best year in probably the last 25, there were 12 non-typs that netted over 200, probably another 20 grossed over 200, in all of Saskatchewan! And here, 80% of the big deer get scored and entered in the provincial records (because it's a big deal!). Then that winter was early and brutal and we probably lost 80% of the deer. I've seen my once in a lifetime 200+ and I don't expect to see another. And I'm in control of about 5000 acres (half that's bush/timber) with only 3 to 4 deer taken off of it annually. Like Daver said, a vast majority of bucks here plateau at 150, the odd one grosses in the 170s, and then you get the genetically exceptional one that somehow survives to it's full potential.
So ya, Iowa has the best odds of growing those big deer, but the two, three buck tags/person is not helping those odds.
I'll quit the rambling now, ha.
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I would 100% support a one buck state. The number one killer of bucks on my farms since 2019 has been EHD.
hillrunner
PMA Member
I agree with both of those statements.