Alfalfa

[dbltree]

I can't think of any clover that would beat any alfalfa for "standability" at this time of the year.

I agree...the Alta-Swede works up until early December depending on weather but eventually it's kaput and they still forage on the alfalfa.

I like alta-swede because it doesn't get rank as early, in otherwords it doesn't have to be clipped as often as other red clovers.

I us this red clover as a plow down and it serves a pupose but it will never compete with alfalfa this time of year....

 

[whitetail fanatic]

dbltree I know you said deer seem to like every kind of alfalfa that you plant, but out of all the different varieties of alfalfa that you've planted over the years, have you noticed any varieties that deer prefer more than others? I know it might be hard for you to tell because deer in your area seem to pound everything you grow!

Has anyone else out there noticed a preference of one type of alfalfa over another?

 

[dbltree]

dbltree I know you said deer seem to like every kind of alfalfa that you plant, but out of all the different varieties of alfalfa that you've planted over the years, have you noticed any varieties that deer prefer more than others? I know it might be hard for you to tell because deer in your area seem to pound everything you grow!

Has anyone else out there noticed a preference of one type of alfalfa over another?

There is alfalfa growing all over this country and I see deer grazing in all of them well into winter so I don't think they realy prefer one over another, I think it's more a matter of opportunity.

Plant alfalfa next to cover and they readily feed in it. The only issue that affects last season attractivness is dormancy, northern alfalfa's are bred for earlier dormancy to avoid winter kills while those in more termperate climates can be less dormant.

You would want to check in your area what is reccomended and go with a low dormancy rate within your range...

 

[rocco]

i'm no farmer. i've got the tools and know-how to small plot/woodland plot clover and the like. i do have a couple small woodland clearings that i could probably get the falcata alfalfa in.

what i'm wondering about is growing 3-5 acres of the "real deal". we have 5 or 6 fields totalling somewhere around 50 acres that's already being mowed for hay.

it's a unique situation, we basically rent a farmer 20 acres or so that he grows corn on, and as part of that deal he mows the fields for hay. he ain't exactly Farmer John, and i doubt seriously he'd be interested in paying for alfalfa, or even helping me get any ground ready.

however, if i want to, since he's not paying for the hay, i can nuke 5 acres of grass (or start with 1 acre, or half acre or whatever for a trial run) and put in alfalfa myself just for the benefit of the deer, and he will obviously not mind free alfalfa one bit.

my question is, is there any way that i could do this without implements? say just nuke it good, mow it as close as possible in a couple weeks, turn it over as much as possible with a 4-wheeler harrow and sow alfalfa with a nurse crop of oats for weed suppresion? i could come up with a barrel or something to roll over after planting to at least get some soil contact?

if that's not enough to consider, it's a 2 hour drive one-way!

 

[rocco]

seperate post for a seperate but related question. i've been "studying" all winter to come up with a plan for this property.

until reading this and other info about alfalfa, i thought i had a plan.

the property is 1000 acres in SW VA. 500 or so is pretty heavily wooded (90% hardwoods 10% mature planted pines) 200 or so is fenced with livestock on it, 10 acres of ponds and swampy area, and the balance in cornfields and pasture grass.

as of today, we have ~20 acres of corn that gets harvested for silage, and that's it. there's an apple tree here and there, and our acorn crop is spotty at best. the farmer doesn't even grow winter rye or anything after he chops corn.

on top of all this, we somehow manage to have what i think is pretty high densities. our best guess is somewhere close to 50deer/sqmi or more. our deer are literally eating ivy and briars. this property is begging to be managed. other than that little bit of "farming" it's used 100% for deer and turkey hunting.

my plan "was" to get all the small plots i could get in high protein spring/summer forage, probably durana since it's pretty long lived. (remember, it's a 2 hr drive, and i will be pretty much solo on this deal as far as the work) i had also thought about sweet spot, white clover mixes etc.

BUT, after reading this, i wonder if alfalfa isn't my magic bullet. the farmer will mow it, and IF i can get it established, it will require less work on me going forward.

the real question at the end of all this is, is there any reason alflafa couldn't be a suitable ONLY foodplot item for me? i could still easily do some small remote kill plots in something like sweet spot/throw n grow etc. but as far as tonnage of food, it's more than clover, it lasts longer into the winter, and greens up just as quick in the spring, right?

sorry for the long winded spiel!

 

[dbltree]

my question is, is there any way that i could do this without implements? say just nuke it good, mow it as close as possible in a couple weeks, turn it over as much as possible with a 4-wheeler harrow and sow alfalfa with a nurse crop of oats for weed suppresion? i could come up with a barrel or something to roll over after planting to at least get some soil contact?

Sounds like alot of work but if you can till it up good enough to make a decent seedbed then I believe you could end up with a decent seeding.

Hard to belive that the farmer wouldn't be willing to at least till the fields up for you if he is going to get free hay!?!?

Another option is to kill the sod and have someone no-till plant it for you if you can locate someone with a drill.

For hay you will be better off with conventional alfalfa but just be aware that the seed is pretty epensive and you really should do a soil test first and correct PH and P&K needs.

Alfalfa works well in high deer density areas and will normally attract well into December or later if your weather is not severe.

Make sure the farmer takes hay off the last time in late august so you'll have nice fall re-growth to attract deer.

let us know how your seeding works out!

 

[rocco]

i'm definately going to ask him if he'll help, but i'm going to plan as though he won't.

thanks for all you do to help guys like me!

 

[hillrunner]

Here are some pics I took today. It actually looked a lot more impressive a week ago as the warm weather has really shrunk the snow this past week. As you can see , the deer are still hammering my alfalfa. Even with standing corn right along the trees, they walk through the corn to dig for the alfalfa. They do hit the corn, just not nearly as hard.I hope they clean the corn up by spring, I don't really wanna disc it under and have a bunch of volunteer come up next summer.

 

[hillrunner]

Another look

 

[dbltree]

Holy Cats! I guess so! Thanks for sharing the pics!!:way:

 

[dbltree]

Amazing how long alfalfa keeps "working"!!

Late October this field looked like this and was full of deer every night

In late Januray they were still feeding on it

Despite weeks of temps plummeting to minus 10-15 degrees the alfalfa is still green under the snow...

Now...it's late February and still the alfalfa is attracting and feeding whitetails

Still green and tasty despite a long hard winter

For the average small plotter clovers are generally eaiser to manage but alfalfa does offer some distinct advantages and can handle very heavy grazing pressure.

In my case my renter paid all the costs of establishing the seeding and pays me rent to boot, all the while keeping it mowed and baled and attracting deer to the lush high protein food source.

The first rays of spring sun will have the now dormant alfalfa springing to life and providing a great source of forage from early spring to very nearly the next spring....

 

[waylonb19]

dbletree how did your falcata plot do vs the conventional alfalfa plot when it came to attracting deer this winter? (late dec./Jan)

 

[dbltree]

dbletree how did your falcata plot do vs the conventional alfalfa plot when it came to attracting deer this winter? (late dec./Jan)

I would say about the same with possibly slightly more in the areas that had both falcata and red clover planted together.

There was more action in the Alice white clover next to the alfalfas however on that farm....

 

[whitetail fanatic]

quote:"I would say about the same with possibly slightly more in the areas that had both falcata and red clover planted together.

There was more action in the Alice white clover next to the alfalfas however on that farm...."


Do you mean the Alice white clover was more attractive and being used more by the deer this winter than the alfalfas right next to it?

 

[dbltree]

"I would say about the same with possibly slightly more in the areas that had both falcata and red clover planted together.

There was more action in the Alice white clover next to the alfalfas however on that farm...."

Do you mean the Alice white clover was more attractive and being used more by the deer this winter than the alfalfas right next to it?

Yes...but I should mention that I made the mistake of not mowing th alfalfa close to the ground in late August...I just clipped it and the falcata especially turned into dried stems/stubble rather then sedning up new growth as our conventional alfalfa did when baled in late August.

Everyone I talk too mentions the same thing...that deer tore up the Alice white clover plots due to the severe winter.

 

[whitetail fanatic]

quote: "Yes...but I should mention that I made the mistake of not mowing th alfalfa close to the ground in late August...I just clipped it and the falcata especially turned into dried stems/stubble rather then sedning up new growth as our conventional alfalfa did when baled in late August.

Everyone I talk too mentions the same thing...that deer tore up the Alice white clover plots due to the severe winter. "

So in a normal winter do you notice the deer using the Alice clover as much or more than alfalfa? How does Alice clover compare to alfalfa during hot dry summer weather? Does it go dormant like most white clovers in those conditions?

 

[dbltree]

quote: "Yes...but I should mention that I made the mistake of not mowing th alfalfa close to the ground in late August...I just clipped it and the falcata especially turned into dried stems/stubble rather then sedning up new growth as our conventional alfalfa did when baled in late August.

Everyone I talk too mentions the same thing...that deer tore up the Alice white clover plots due to the severe winter. "

So in a normal winter do you notice the deer using the Alice clover as much or more than alfalfa? How does Alice clover compare to alfalfa during hot dry summer weather? Does it go dormant like most white clovers in those conditions?

Alice is pretty drought resistant but I also have heavy clay soils that hold moisture longer then light soils.

Here's the deal...it's pretty much a toss up as far as the deer are concerned as they readily eat both. It boils down to the landowner...small plots are eaiser managed if planted to white clovers like Alice.

Large fields that can be hayed as a cash crop are better off in alfalfa.

Which one fits your situation Wes?

 

[whitetail fanatic]

Thanks Paul. We probably have some that would fit each situation. Some fields would be easy for our farming neighbor to get in and out of to mow/bale the alfalfa. Other spots are harder to get to and/or smaller plots that probably wouldn't be worth it to the neighbor to go after, but we usually just mow them 3-4 times a year if we have them in alfalfa and let the cuttings scatter all over so it doesn't bury the alfalfa. I might plant some side by side to see if they prefer one over the other or if one does better than the other in our conditions. Deer around here seem to always prefer alfalfa over clover so I should probably just stick with that, but I always want to experiment with food plots to see if one thing works better than another.

 

[dbltree]

I might plant some side by side to see if they prefer one over the other or if one does better than the other in our conditions. Deer around here seem to always prefer alfalfa over clover so I should probably just stick with that, but I always want to experiment with food plots to see if one thing works better than another. <!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

That's the right attitude right there Wes! Both have great qualities with alfalfa getting the nod where one can bring in some cash flow or at least not have to monkey with mowing it.

Keep us posted if you try some side by side plots...I know I have had a few surprises with those kind of tests...

 

[dgallow]

Initial 'handfull here and there' test last fall for falcata looks 'okay' in our area. Had to get down on my hand and knees to find the seedlings...pencil lead sized redish stem with tiny trifoliates less than a pinky nail in size and in a cluster. Germ % didn't look very high but there wasn't any grazing protection afforded either.

Looks to be an 'improved siberian alfalfa' on the market. Cimarron USA crossed it with one of their improved varieties, and it's called the HayGrazer variety. Neat pics of the root mass.....think it was tested in both OK and NC. http://www.cimarronusa.com/Varieties.html

more details
http://www.cimarronusa.com/CimarronVarietyDetails.pdf