Well the snow has melted and I have a plot full of turnips..haha I am really dissapointed in the activity in my brassicas last yr. I am wondering if they might still eat what is left of them this spring? I am also thinking about this yr. Since the deer didn't seem to hammer my brassicas am I better of planting something else this yr or put them back in and hope they will start hammering them the 2nd yr. I also am thinking of planting some clover in this plot this spring then till it under for the brassicas again come around August. I just hate to plant them again with such an average payoff as far as deer eating them goes last yr. So what do you think?
risto2351
Well-Known Member
Deer have to acquire a taste for them Imo.
They do the same for me but they will hammer the neighbors.
I would plant clover in it now and plow it down this fall and either plant it
again this fall or put in a rye, oats, groundhog radish mix.
I try to rotate them every year.
Good luck in whatever you do.
They do the same for me but they will hammer the neighbors.
I would plant clover in it now and plow it down this fall and either plant it
again this fall or put in a rye, oats, groundhog radish mix.
I try to rotate them every year.
Good luck in whatever you do.
dbltree
Super Moderator
One thing I suggest to everyone is to avoid planting only one food source in any given plot. Divide your plots and plant 1/2 to brassicas and 1/2 to winter rye/peas and red clover (for instance) as Risto mentions this allows you to rotate crops but also brings deer into any given plot with different types of food sources.
If deer are attracted to the rye and peas they will eventually test out the brassicas and add Groundhog Forage Radish will encourage them further because it is even more palatable then rape and turnips.
The turnips will rot now and it's unlikely that deer will eat htme from this point forward sothe best bet is to work it up and plant an annual clover like crimson or berseem and then till that under for you next crops.
This summer plant 1/2 the plot to brassicas but consider planting the other 1/2 to a mix of winter rye, field or austrian winter peas, GH forage radish and red clover.
Pretty tough for deer to resist peas and rye and it will draw them in most of the winter regardless if they eat the brassicas or not...
dbltree
Super Moderator
One thing unique about planting short season brassicas (rape, turnips and forage radish) is that they can be planted in mid July to mid August at a time when we don't have to fight wet spring weather. This planting time frame also provides an opportunity to grow a legume during that time ahead of planting which in turn allows us to add soil humous and nitrogen. Clover then provides deer with a high quality food source rather then an empty plot.
Planting red clover with winter rye as the crop preceding the brassicas is one of the least expensive and most productive ways to accomplish this and the reason I encourage crop rotations between winter rye, peas, red clover and brassicas. That rotation builds soils, lowers the need for herbicides and fertilizers and when a plot is divided, these crops can provide the best of both every year.
Clovers should also be spring seeded into dead brassica plots rather then leaving it bare for the summer and preferably then rotated back to winter rye/peas and red clover.
I've discussed all of that previously of course and in the cereal grain threads I've shared information on how to get the most out of the legumes and that subject should be covered here as well.
70-85% of the nitrogen in a legume plant is in the leaves and plant itself, so while the roots do contain N, the upper part of the plant is the real "gold mine" so to speak. Killing the plant and leaving it on the soil surface allows most of the N to converted to ammonia and eventually lost to the atmosphere.
For that reason it's important to till the legume (such as clover or vetch) under as a whole plant and this is one time that plowing can be an effective way to fully trap all of the nutrients in the plants. Tilling or discing it under is the next best option although with smaller equipment landowners may need to mow the clover first and follow up quickly with tillage equipment.
It is also important NOT to allow the clover to flower and set seed as it will both stop fixing N and begin to dry out, losing the N contained in the plant itself. Inoculation of the seed at planting is also extremely important for best results, otherwise the clover or vetch will use the N in the soil and is likely to fix N less efficiently.
None of this has anything to do with brassicas themselves of course but as landowners go from a "plant stuff....shoot deer" way of thinking to a complete year around sustainable habitat program, they want to learn how to "fill in the blanks".
This link is very helpful in putting things into layman's terms to help landowners better understand the whole process.
Managing Cover Crops
Knowledge of crop rotation, cover crops and the need to provide year around food sources will also help you understand why landowners need to get away from old habits of planting a plot to one crop.
Once you try dividing your plots and planting separate crops in each one you begin to see the advantages almost immediately and even more positive results over time due to lowered fertilizer and herbicide inputs.
Planting red clover with winter rye as the crop preceding the brassicas is one of the least expensive and most productive ways to accomplish this and the reason I encourage crop rotations between winter rye, peas, red clover and brassicas. That rotation builds soils, lowers the need for herbicides and fertilizers and when a plot is divided, these crops can provide the best of both every year.
Clovers should also be spring seeded into dead brassica plots rather then leaving it bare for the summer and preferably then rotated back to winter rye/peas and red clover.
I've discussed all of that previously of course and in the cereal grain threads I've shared information on how to get the most out of the legumes and that subject should be covered here as well.
70-85% of the nitrogen in a legume plant is in the leaves and plant itself, so while the roots do contain N, the upper part of the plant is the real "gold mine" so to speak. Killing the plant and leaving it on the soil surface allows most of the N to converted to ammonia and eventually lost to the atmosphere.
For that reason it's important to till the legume (such as clover or vetch) under as a whole plant and this is one time that plowing can be an effective way to fully trap all of the nutrients in the plants. Tilling or discing it under is the next best option although with smaller equipment landowners may need to mow the clover first and follow up quickly with tillage equipment.
It is also important NOT to allow the clover to flower and set seed as it will both stop fixing N and begin to dry out, losing the N contained in the plant itself. Inoculation of the seed at planting is also extremely important for best results, otherwise the clover or vetch will use the N in the soil and is likely to fix N less efficiently.
None of this has anything to do with brassicas themselves of course but as landowners go from a "plant stuff....shoot deer" way of thinking to a complete year around sustainable habitat program, they want to learn how to "fill in the blanks".
This link is very helpful in putting things into layman's terms to help landowners better understand the whole process.
Managing Cover Crops
Knowledge of crop rotation, cover crops and the need to provide year around food sources will also help you understand why landowners need to get away from old habits of planting a plot to one crop.
Once you try dividing your plots and planting separate crops in each one you begin to see the advantages almost immediately and even more positive results over time due to lowered fertilizer and herbicide inputs.
dbltree
Super Moderator
The following are just more links concerning the use of legumes as a source of nitrogen following or preceding brassicas (or crops like corn) and shows that clover (legumes) are just as beneficial in no-till situations as they are with tillage.
LEGUME COVER CROPS IN WISCONSIN
Cover Crops and Legumes
Cover Crops and Legumes
Crimson Clover Cover crop
Utilizing legumes for N supply can be sometimes confusing but one thing is certain...that the benefits are clear and using legumes in your brassica rotation to break the disease/pest cycle, build soils and furnish at all or a part of the crops N needs is just good managment....
LEGUME COVER CROPS IN WISCONSIN
Cover Crops and Legumes
Cover Crops and Legumes
Crimson Clover Cover crop
Utilizing legumes for N supply can be sometimes confusing but one thing is certain...that the benefits are clear and using legumes in your brassica rotation to break the disease/pest cycle, build soils and furnish at all or a part of the crops N needs is just good managment....
dbltree
Super Moderator
On my farms there is not so much as a shred of evidence left that I ever planted brassicas but on a friends farm there are a number of "survivors"...
The deep snow insulated them and hid them from deer
Just another reason to til them up and plant clovers because these brassicas would mature and go to seed long before fall
Volunteer brassicas can be very invasive like wild mustard and hard to get rid of but clover cover crops help eliminate that problem....
The deep snow insulated them and hid them from deer
Just another reason to til them up and plant clovers because these brassicas would mature and go to seed long before fall
Volunteer brassicas can be very invasive like wild mustard and hard to get rid of but clover cover crops help eliminate that problem....
My brassicas are growing back again. What would happen if you leave them? I am planning on tilling them under and planting clover but the area my plot is in is really wet right now. I might not be able to get in there till mid summer sometime. So if you leave the brassicas what happens. You said they will go to seed. What happens after that? Will they keep growing and be any good come late fall or winter? I figured they would of rotted out by now.
dbltree
Super Moderator
This pic from my brassica plot shows the string allelopathic affects of the brassicas...looks like a desert!
Leaving a plot bare like this all summer would be not only foolish but shameful! Our soils are not meant to be left bare and unproductive so in my case I tilled the plots under and planted berseem and crimson annual clovers.
I always rotate my plots/crops so last years brassica plots will be planted to winter rye and peas this fall and last years rye will be planted to brassicas this year. Annual clovers will provide a source of nitrogen for the rye and add thousands of pounds of biomass (organic matter) to the soil when I kill it to plant rye in late August.
The rye plots already have red clover planted in them from last fall and the same process will occur when I till those under for brassicas in July.
Instead of a bare dead brassica patch I will soon have some lush annual clovers to feed deer all summer and then take advantage of some free nutrients and improved soil tilth when I work in this source of green manure...
Leaving a plot bare like this all summer would be not only foolish but shameful! Our soils are not meant to be left bare and unproductive so in my case I tilled the plots under and planted berseem and crimson annual clovers.
I always rotate my plots/crops so last years brassica plots will be planted to winter rye and peas this fall and last years rye will be planted to brassicas this year. Annual clovers will provide a source of nitrogen for the rye and add thousands of pounds of biomass (organic matter) to the soil when I kill it to plant rye in late August.
The rye plots already have red clover planted in them from last fall and the same process will occur when I till those under for brassicas in July.
Instead of a bare dead brassica patch I will soon have some lush annual clovers to feed deer all summer and then take advantage of some free nutrients and improved soil tilth when I work in this source of green manure...
dbltree
Super Moderator
Annual clovers don't really have anything to do with brassicas but then again they have everything to do with them when used as a cover crop to follow brassicas in the spring. In my case these annual clovers will be tilled under for winter rye and peas this fall and that allows the clovers to provide a lush source of high protein forage all summer and then a source of nitrogen for the fall rye and forage radish plots.
Just for fun I planted Berseem clover
and Crimson Clover
along with chickling vetch
I also frost seeded red clover into some spent brassicas to see how they compare and see if there is any noticibale difference in any of these annuals as far as deer usuage or plot performance of crops following these annual cover crops.
We have a "stump" problem in one old pasture converted to food plots and after continually tearing up my tiller we decided to start plowing it first to either pull up the 3-6" stumps or at least mark them.
They have been there about 3-4 years now so many of them pulled up
I tilled the plowed ground, cultipacked, broadcast the seed and re-cultipacked to cover
Various seeding rates and seed source can be found here:
Annual Clovers
and here
Chickling Vetch info
I hope to encourage landowners to not have a one track mind and focus soely on one type of crop and worse yet only on a "kill" plot. Diversify your plantings to provide year around food sources, use annual cover crop species that will feed deer, improve soils and add free nitrogen to lower your costs.
Our whitetail/wildlife habitat should be like a spider web of crops, trees and native grasses that woven together provide all the intricate but essential components necessary to hold and harvest mature whitetails.
I'll be planting long season brassicas like swedes and kale very soon and exploring all the pros and cons of long seasons versus short season rape and turnips for those interested in that aspect of planting and growing brassicas for whitetails....
Just for fun I planted Berseem clover
and Crimson Clover
along with chickling vetch
I also frost seeded red clover into some spent brassicas to see how they compare and see if there is any noticibale difference in any of these annuals as far as deer usuage or plot performance of crops following these annual cover crops.
We have a "stump" problem in one old pasture converted to food plots and after continually tearing up my tiller we decided to start plowing it first to either pull up the 3-6" stumps or at least mark them.
They have been there about 3-4 years now so many of them pulled up
I tilled the plowed ground, cultipacked, broadcast the seed and re-cultipacked to cover
Various seeding rates and seed source can be found here:
Annual Clovers
and here
Chickling Vetch info
I hope to encourage landowners to not have a one track mind and focus soely on one type of crop and worse yet only on a "kill" plot. Diversify your plantings to provide year around food sources, use annual cover crop species that will feed deer, improve soils and add free nitrogen to lower your costs.
Our whitetail/wildlife habitat should be like a spider web of crops, trees and native grasses that woven together provide all the intricate but essential components necessary to hold and harvest mature whitetails.
I'll be planting long season brassicas like swedes and kale very soon and exploring all the pros and cons of long seasons versus short season rape and turnips for those interested in that aspect of planting and growing brassicas for whitetails....
letemgrow
PMA Member
All year round food will create better kill plots anyways IMO. The deer will be healthier which leads to bigger and better bucks and more deer :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
Frost seeding should not affect the inoculate Phil and that is also an excellent method of following brassicas with a legume. I did frost seed red clover in one strip of dead brassicas but in some cases where brassicas were uneaten they leave strong allelopathic chemicals behind that inhibit clover germination and in those cases I prefer to till them under and sow annual clovers.
If deer eat the brassics to the dirt then that's not usually much of a problem...
Critter
Life Member
Paul,
I've got about a 1/2 acre of ground I left untouched from a planting of winter rye from last summer. The rye is about a foot tall now. I'd like to plant some AWP and rye back in the same spot this summer, but am uncertain what to do with the ground now. Can I leave the rye grow and then use the tiller on it before I get ready to plant in August, or do I need to do something with it now to prevent any issues leaving it might create later for me?
I've got about a 1/2 acre of ground I left untouched from a planting of winter rye from last summer. The rye is about a foot tall now. I'd like to plant some AWP and rye back in the same spot this summer, but am uncertain what to do with the ground now. Can I leave the rye grow and then use the tiller on it before I get ready to plant in August, or do I need to do something with it now to prevent any issues leaving it might create later for me?
dbltree
Super Moderator
I like to till it under and plant an annual clover for the summer but if that is not possible you can just leave it grow and work it up for a repeat of rye and peas.
The only problems are when you try to "till" mature rye because it will be long and stemmy and wind around a tiller. Easy to work in with a disc but not so much with a tiller.
In the future....add 10-12#'s or Alta-Swede Red Clover from Welters with your fall rye/pea planting, clip the rye off next May and allow the red clover to grow, feed your deer and fix nitrogen for the next rye crop.
Leaving a field in rye alone is kind of a waste because deer will not utilize it, it doesn't "fix" nitrogen and it is more difficult to work up...this is why I use red clover in the fall or annual clovers in the spring if at all possible.
Our property should feed and hold deer year around and our soil should be "working" for us by having the right crops planted that feed deer and our soil too....:way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
I planted a long season brassica mix yesterday but the mix has been changed somewhat and isn't exactly what I had in mind. They added too many short season varieties and it's high in Austrian Peas whereas I would prefer just swedes and kales.
The following is just a refresher on the difference between "short season" tape and turnips and "long season" kale and swedes...take note of the difference in maturity dates...
All brassicas are heavy nitrogen users but long seasons are even heavier N users and usually require topdressing addtional nitrogen mid summer.
Long seasons also are susceptable to severe weed problems but grasses can be controlled with clethodim (Select or Arrow) and Dual II Magnum is supposed to be safe for pre-emergence weed control in brassicas as well.
I applied 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 200#'s 0f 6-24-24 per acre and 1 pint per acre of Dual II Magnum right after planting. I sowed about 5#'s per acre, cultipacked, broadcast seed and re-cultipacked to cover.
I'm hoping that because there are plenty of food sources all lush and plentiful that they will leave the kale and swedes alone for now but time will tell.
The mix I planted contains Winton Swedes and Maris Kestrel Kale among others
I bought my mix from Welter Seed
Long season mix
Cooper Seed has them in individually
Cooper Seeds
Adams - Briscoe Seed Company
Albert Lea Seed has forage kale seed
We'll see how the long seasons do on a couple different farms this year...
The following is just a refresher on the difference between "short season" tape and turnips and "long season" kale and swedes...take note of the difference in maturity dates...
All brassicas are heavy nitrogen users but long seasons are even heavier N users and usually require topdressing addtional nitrogen mid summer.
Long seasons also are susceptable to severe weed problems but grasses can be controlled with clethodim (Select or Arrow) and Dual II Magnum is supposed to be safe for pre-emergence weed control in brassicas as well.
I applied 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 200#'s 0f 6-24-24 per acre and 1 pint per acre of Dual II Magnum right after planting. I sowed about 5#'s per acre, cultipacked, broadcast seed and re-cultipacked to cover.
I'm hoping that because there are plenty of food sources all lush and plentiful that they will leave the kale and swedes alone for now but time will tell.
The mix I planted contains Winton Swedes and Maris Kestrel Kale among others
I bought my mix from Welter Seed
Long season mix
Cooper Seed has them in individually
Cooper Seeds
Adams - Briscoe Seed Company
Albert Lea Seed has forage kale seed
We'll see how the long seasons do on a couple different farms this year...
dbltree
Super Moderator
I checked on the strip of long season brassicas (kale and swedes) I planted a while back
and they are popping up nicely!
I sprayed the plot with Dual II Magnum pre-emergence herbicide because planting anything in the spring is sure to invite weeds! So far this one is clean as a whistle however...
I hope the lush strips of alfalfa and clover will keep them from murdering these 150 day brassicas but time will tell.
Dual II Magnum is $310 for a 2 1/2 gallon jug making it pretty pricey for small plotters unless you can split it with someone and for this reason usually short season brassicas (rape and turnips) are a better/easier option. Planted in mid July they rarely encounter the weed problems that early spring plantings do.
The long seasons do have to potential for higher yields of course and for some that may be reason enough to invest in some herbicide and fertilizer for a spring planting.
Dual II Magnum
Me-Too-Lachlor II is a generic version for 1/2 the price but it isn't the same product either.
I have a couple more strips to put in on two more farms where I hope to compare the strips to adjacent strips of short seasons for comparison now that the "monsoons" have eased up in SE Iowa....
and they are popping up nicely!
I sprayed the plot with Dual II Magnum pre-emergence herbicide because planting anything in the spring is sure to invite weeds! So far this one is clean as a whistle however...
I hope the lush strips of alfalfa and clover will keep them from murdering these 150 day brassicas but time will tell.
Dual II Magnum is $310 for a 2 1/2 gallon jug making it pretty pricey for small plotters unless you can split it with someone and for this reason usually short season brassicas (rape and turnips) are a better/easier option. Planted in mid July they rarely encounter the weed problems that early spring plantings do.
The long seasons do have to potential for higher yields of course and for some that may be reason enough to invest in some herbicide and fertilizer for a spring planting.
Dual II Magnum
Me-Too-Lachlor II is a generic version for 1/2 the price but it isn't the same product either.
I have a couple more strips to put in on two more farms where I hope to compare the strips to adjacent strips of short seasons for comparison now that the "monsoons" have eased up in SE Iowa....
dbltree
Super Moderator
Good idea Phil! That stuff is in hot demand now! :way:
letemgrow
PMA Member
I want some for a food plot, but also want to do a little test.
Hopefully be able to scatter seed in the beanfield and see how that affects my corn production next year. :way: