I dont know if ts wrong or sad but I planted the cereal grain mix in my my wifes garden, just to see what I was in for next year, I was not able to get to illinois to plant in the late season, but I could not wait and planted it at my house in pa. It still looks lush and is going strong, weve had freezing temps several times and the mix was also under snow for a couple of days but it is still going
dbltree
Super Moderator
I often test plant things in our garden...usually that means we have a garden full of deer...
dtk913
New Member
dbltree,
I may have missed it somewhere on this thread, but what is the approx. cost per acre for the fall mix you show on the first page of this thread? I have planted alot of those things before, but never that specific group all together. I think it would be a great blend to try next year.
Thanks
I may have missed it somewhere on this thread, but what is the approx. cost per acre for the fall mix you show on the first page of this thread? I have planted alot of those things before, but never that specific group all together. I think it would be a great blend to try next year.
Thanks
dbltree
Super Moderator
As with anything, costs vary but here is a rough estimate of seed and fertilizer costs per acre
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$75 200# urea (nitrogen)
Total $150-200 ****[/FONT]
[FONT="]To establish clover add the following to the cereal mix ***[/FONT]
[FONT="]$130-160 6-28-28 fertilizer[/FONT]
[FONT="]$30-50 pellet lime[/FONT]
if you read my threads you'll notice i encourage that people have a combination of crops within one centralized feeding area that can be easily rotated each year. This mix is easily rotated with brassicas so normally, once nutrient levels have been brought up to proper levels, I fertilize brassicas heavily, with NPK and then use only some nitrogen on the rye combination mix.
Eventually, by using the proper crop rotations you'll use far less synthetic fertilizers and experience less weed problems. Each crop in this mix performs very valuable functions aside from attracting whitetails, so eventually the over all costs compared to other programs is lowered dramatically.
Note the amounts of seed vary...those with few deer and light grazing should use the lower amounts and probably less nitrogen, or plant smaller areas. The opposite obviously would be the case where deer numbers are high and grazing intense.
dbltree
Super Moderator
December 9th, 2011
I have the unique opportunity every year to not only observe my own feeding areas but those of others for whom I help manage their habitat. Sometimes on doe control and others simply sitting in a blind with a camera and observing where deer enter/exit and how deer utilize the food sources. The following are some recent observations where deer have the rye/oats/peas/radish/clover combo along with brassicas and either standing soybeans or standing corn. This post then is not about rye or even cereal grains but rather how one can use a combination of crops that requires neither corn or soybeans to be successful.
Field one...
We have a field devoted to a corn/soybean rotation in which the crop is left standing each year and a portion is divided in half with part in the rye combination mix and the other 1/2 in brassicas. We planted the rye combination all the way around the exterior and added KopuII white clover along with the red clover and will leave that area in perennial white clover. The area in rye and brassicas will be rotated yearly between the two so that both will always be in the field yet never planting the same soil twice in a row to either crop.
The rye strip around the exterior has a clear well worn path where they have traveled it as they graze the rye mix
The field is of course surrounded by cover and I could observe the whole field from an elevated blind. The first buck walked out and grazed the rye mix first and then headed to the brassicas
He ate there for a few minutes then grabbed a few bites of soybeans as he walked across the field
Upon reaching the rye mix on the other side he again stopped to feed
At no point did he show a preference nor did he "turn up his nose" at any of the food sources. A doe fawn came out next and she stayed in the rye mix only feet from the soybeans for 20 minutes feasting on the lush rye and oats and eventually fed for perhaps 5 minutes on the soybeans.
Eventually it got to dark to take pictures but another buck entered the field and repeated the same process as the first buck...one might think if soybeans were the preferred food source they would skip the others and go straight to the beans...but such was not the case as I have shown in previous posts.
Field two...
This field is divided into strips of brassicas and the rye mix
all of which lay right beside a large corn field of which a substantial area has been left standing
Despite the standing corn and stubble field to feed in...they have eaten the brassicas literally to the dirt
and there are beaten paths thru the rye mix
Note here the heavily grazed rye mix is till lush and green, including the common spring oats in the mix which despite what you are led to believe are very winter hardy until temps stay in the lower teens.
The first deer to enter the field again, grabbed a few bites of the rye mix, then fed in the brassicas until he left
This buck could easily have chosen the corn field but he ignored it completely
As it got darker I observed more deer including several large bucks entering the field, all of who fed about equally in both rye and brassicas but only one buck eventually walked up and entered the standing corn.
None of this is meant to imply that either corn or soybeans are not effective....they certainly are but on the other hand they are not necessary either, so no landowner should ever feel like they are "missing the boat" if you budget or capabilities won't allow planting these crops.
Because deer are opportunistic they will adapt to food sources closest to safe bedding as long as the feeding areas are also safe and secure. The weather here has been cold and at times snowy with temps dropping down into the single digits at times and still you can see via these pictures what I saw and others have shared the sane observations.
if there was only (insert crop), corn, beans, brassicas, rye, clover...etc.) they would still come to the same place and eat that crop. The reason for planting multiple food sources is to holed deer year around and adapt them to ALWAYS coming to that one place...not because a combination brings deer from miles around.
Sometimes it takes time for deer to adapt to a new feeding area and some landowners have observed deer walking thru standing beans to get to a corn field for instance (again...showing the power of adaption). utilizing white clover in every feeding area helps adapt deer to coming there starting in the spring and eventually they will be less nomadic as they realize they no longer have to "search" for food.
All of this is merely information to help you make the choices that are right for you, your budget and your habitat....
I have the unique opportunity every year to not only observe my own feeding areas but those of others for whom I help manage their habitat. Sometimes on doe control and others simply sitting in a blind with a camera and observing where deer enter/exit and how deer utilize the food sources. The following are some recent observations where deer have the rye/oats/peas/radish/clover combo along with brassicas and either standing soybeans or standing corn. This post then is not about rye or even cereal grains but rather how one can use a combination of crops that requires neither corn or soybeans to be successful.
Field one...
We have a field devoted to a corn/soybean rotation in which the crop is left standing each year and a portion is divided in half with part in the rye combination mix and the other 1/2 in brassicas. We planted the rye combination all the way around the exterior and added KopuII white clover along with the red clover and will leave that area in perennial white clover. The area in rye and brassicas will be rotated yearly between the two so that both will always be in the field yet never planting the same soil twice in a row to either crop.
The rye strip around the exterior has a clear well worn path where they have traveled it as they graze the rye mix
The field is of course surrounded by cover and I could observe the whole field from an elevated blind. The first buck walked out and grazed the rye mix first and then headed to the brassicas
He ate there for a few minutes then grabbed a few bites of soybeans as he walked across the field
Upon reaching the rye mix on the other side he again stopped to feed
At no point did he show a preference nor did he "turn up his nose" at any of the food sources. A doe fawn came out next and she stayed in the rye mix only feet from the soybeans for 20 minutes feasting on the lush rye and oats and eventually fed for perhaps 5 minutes on the soybeans.
Eventually it got to dark to take pictures but another buck entered the field and repeated the same process as the first buck...one might think if soybeans were the preferred food source they would skip the others and go straight to the beans...but such was not the case as I have shown in previous posts.
Field two...
This field is divided into strips of brassicas and the rye mix
all of which lay right beside a large corn field of which a substantial area has been left standing
Despite the standing corn and stubble field to feed in...they have eaten the brassicas literally to the dirt
and there are beaten paths thru the rye mix
Note here the heavily grazed rye mix is till lush and green, including the common spring oats in the mix which despite what you are led to believe are very winter hardy until temps stay in the lower teens.
The first deer to enter the field again, grabbed a few bites of the rye mix, then fed in the brassicas until he left
This buck could easily have chosen the corn field but he ignored it completely
As it got darker I observed more deer including several large bucks entering the field, all of who fed about equally in both rye and brassicas but only one buck eventually walked up and entered the standing corn.
None of this is meant to imply that either corn or soybeans are not effective....they certainly are but on the other hand they are not necessary either, so no landowner should ever feel like they are "missing the boat" if you budget or capabilities won't allow planting these crops.
Because deer are opportunistic they will adapt to food sources closest to safe bedding as long as the feeding areas are also safe and secure. The weather here has been cold and at times snowy with temps dropping down into the single digits at times and still you can see via these pictures what I saw and others have shared the sane observations.
if there was only (insert crop), corn, beans, brassicas, rye, clover...etc.) they would still come to the same place and eat that crop. The reason for planting multiple food sources is to holed deer year around and adapt them to ALWAYS coming to that one place...not because a combination brings deer from miles around.
Sometimes it takes time for deer to adapt to a new feeding area and some landowners have observed deer walking thru standing beans to get to a corn field for instance (again...showing the power of adaption). utilizing white clover in every feeding area helps adapt deer to coming there starting in the spring and eventually they will be less nomadic as they realize they no longer have to "search" for food.
All of this is merely information to help you make the choices that are right for you, your budget and your habitat....
SWBUCKHNTR
Member
I figured I would share some pictures. I posted in the management form that I had the guy skip out on planting my fall food plots this year. I had the field sprayed and ready to go for him and he never showed. Anyway the field was sprayed in the middle of july.
As you can tell from the picture I was left with a field full of foxtail. It is crazy when you burn a field off how fast the foxtail can take over.
After a couple hours with a mower and a tiller I had it looking decent and ready to be planted. I used a truax trillion and planted winter rye. I planted it at 150 pounds on a little over 1.5 acres.
I like the view from the stand. We just need to get a little rain to get it kick started. I know it is far better to kill it off before you till it under but I decided in the last few days to do it so I didnt have the time. I also wanted to get it in before the rain on monday. I did get it planted but it rained probably less than a 1/10 of an inch. Praying for more rain. I will keep you guys posted on how it comes in. It was planted on 9/26/11
I missed out on any measurable rain untill the first week of november. So needless to say my rye never grew. I want to turn this field into half brassicas and half rye/clover mix next fall. What are my best options this spring oats/red mix? Oats/berseem mix?
dbltree
Super Moderator
I like oats and berseem or crimson clover or you can mix the two but either way the annual clovers are fast growing compared to red clover for a spring planting that you will till under.
Next fall add red clover to your rye planting and let's hope we don't endure another drought like 2011
Clover seed
dbltree
Super Moderator
Unfortunately most people are not only uninformed but misinformed by unscrupulous advertisers...:thrwrck:
The pictures don't lie...:way:
December 18th, 2011
The winter rye mix continues to hold deer in large numbers regardless of where we have it planted or what other crops may be in the area. The mix of rye, oats, peas, radish and red clover looks something like this in mid December after temps down into the single digits
The oats are starting to slowly freeze out as planned
While the rye remains green
They are working the Groundhog forage radish over...pulling some literally out of the ground as they eat the tops. The peas are all but gone but note the red clover seedlings that will take over in the spring!
I don't add turnips in the fall planting for this reason...too little growth, but they will eventually devour every last morsel nonetheless.
Meanwhile deer continue to stream into the rye mix...
and this field is unique because most of the deer..
A) walk thru winter wheat to get to the rye mix
B) walk beside a corn stubble on the way
C) could choose to go to a field standing soybeans a few hundred yards away
From that you can draw your own conclusions...
The well worn runway is obvious
I sat in a blind with my camera and caught this big boy hungrily devouring the rye mix
Deer don't travel far if they have good bedding cover close by and doe groups come from the same places nightly
With year around food sources they quickly become adapted to it and become very predictable
As the light fades the picture quality does as well but the various groups are recognizable from literally thousands of cam pictures and reveal their habits as they utilize the same runways day after day.
In this picture you can see an area where I didn't get the oats and rye mixed evenly...the oats are slowly freezing out while the winter rye remains green and deer are focusing on it now.
I utilize oats to provide extra forage in October thru mid December knowing they will freeze out leaving the winter rye to feed deer all winter yet not suffocate the young clover in the spring. The rye will acts as a nurse crop and unlike wheat, does no tiller and wreak havoc on the growing clover. If left standing the rye also makes outstanding fawning cover and deer will readily feed on the clovers in the standing rye. If oats were not added and the rye planted at heavier rates it would need to be chemically or mechanically killed in the spring...by planting the mix each landowner has options depending on time and budget and if necessary the rye can simply be left standing and eventually the rye/clover mix can all be tilled under for the next crop of brassicas....
The pictures don't lie...:way:
December 18th, 2011
The winter rye mix continues to hold deer in large numbers regardless of where we have it planted or what other crops may be in the area. The mix of rye, oats, peas, radish and red clover looks something like this in mid December after temps down into the single digits
The oats are starting to slowly freeze out as planned
While the rye remains green
They are working the Groundhog forage radish over...pulling some literally out of the ground as they eat the tops. The peas are all but gone but note the red clover seedlings that will take over in the spring!
I don't add turnips in the fall planting for this reason...too little growth, but they will eventually devour every last morsel nonetheless.
Meanwhile deer continue to stream into the rye mix...
and this field is unique because most of the deer..
A) walk thru winter wheat to get to the rye mix
B) walk beside a corn stubble on the way
C) could choose to go to a field standing soybeans a few hundred yards away
From that you can draw your own conclusions...
The well worn runway is obvious
I sat in a blind with my camera and caught this big boy hungrily devouring the rye mix
Deer don't travel far if they have good bedding cover close by and doe groups come from the same places nightly
With year around food sources they quickly become adapted to it and become very predictable
As the light fades the picture quality does as well but the various groups are recognizable from literally thousands of cam pictures and reveal their habits as they utilize the same runways day after day.
In this picture you can see an area where I didn't get the oats and rye mixed evenly...the oats are slowly freezing out while the winter rye remains green and deer are focusing on it now.
I utilize oats to provide extra forage in October thru mid December knowing they will freeze out leaving the winter rye to feed deer all winter yet not suffocate the young clover in the spring. The rye will acts as a nurse crop and unlike wheat, does no tiller and wreak havoc on the growing clover. If left standing the rye also makes outstanding fawning cover and deer will readily feed on the clovers in the standing rye. If oats were not added and the rye planted at heavier rates it would need to be chemically or mechanically killed in the spring...by planting the mix each landowner has options depending on time and budget and if necessary the rye can simply be left standing and eventually the rye/clover mix can all be tilled under for the next crop of brassicas....
dbltree
Super Moderator
A friend sat in a blind overlooking a plot that contains strips of white clover, brassicas and soybeans overseeded with rye and noted via texts that they were eating the "green stuff". Over the years I have found that once deer become adapted to feeding in a plot, they then become adapted to eating the crops planted there, where previously they where adapted to eating crops in surrounding fields out of a need to survive.
The way to adapt deer to feeding in one plot is to always provide food there and you can never accomplish this with one crop. Time after time I see people who continue to plant clover in one plot, corn in another and brassicas in the back 40 and so on and then they wonder why deer sightings are poor.
The simplest, most economical yet most effective way to plant yer around food sources in ONE field is to use a combination of clover, brassicas and the winter rye combination (winter rye/oats/forage peas/radish and red clover). Those crops together, planted in ONE field can, over most of the nation provide year around food sources and very quickly adapt deer to always feeding there.
A very simple way to accomplish this is to plant strips of those crops within that one centralized feeding area and then screen the food sources. Here we have a strip or winter rye/oats/peas/radish and red clover and a strip of brassicas screened by Egyptian Wheat
Landowners also often make the mistake of planting the plot to far away from heavy, safe bedding area, so be certain to keep you feeding area adjacent to bedding.
These strips will keep deer fed literally all fall, winter, spring and summer....
How is that possible??
The brassicas will provide both tops and roots and the latter will feed them well into mid winter
The winter rye combination will literally feed them from late August for a full year if necessary....the oats until mid December, the peas and radish until they are eaten or well into winter, the winter rye all winter and into spring, the red clover all spring and summer until it is tilled under and rotated to brassicas in mid July.
White clover has been established with the rye around the field perimeter to round out the year around food supply and diversify our food sources but this "green stuff" is drawing deer from even the neighbors combined grain fields and they are beating a path to it.
These deer are already adapted to finding all of their needs met and because this field is surrounded by NWSG and timber they will bed there, have their fawns there and literally spend there lives there.
In the spring the dead brassicas will be tilled under and planted to oats and berseem clover which will in turn be tilled under to rotate to the rye combination. Planting multiple crops in one field not only adapts your deer to always coming there but allows us to rotate crops yearly, build up organic matter, control weed problems, lower fertilizer and herbicide inputs and increase hunting success.
Planting one crop is a recipe for failure because once the crop is gone...so are the deer...
If you desire to succeed I would urge you to avoid these common mistakes...
1) Planting multiple plots
a) Plant ONE centrally located feeding area per 80-120 acres
2) Planting only one food source
b) Plant a combination of crops (not all mixed together but separately within the plot)
3) Planting multiple crops but in different plots
c) Plant ALL the crops within ONE feeding area, divide the feeding area into strips or blocks and plant all crops in one field
4)Planting in an open area too far from cover
d) To the extent possible, locate your single feeding area immediately adjacent to bedding cover and then screen any open areas with Egyptian Wheat, sorghum and eventually conifers for a permanent screen.
5) Poor or no bedding cover
e) People are often perplexed when they see few deer which usually stems from the fact they have wide open timber where deer do not feel safe. Utilize timber management and hinging techniques to improve bedding and plant open fields to NWSG.
6) Success is determined solely by observation
f) No landowner can observe deer on their property 24/7 and because many of the previously noted problems may not have been addressed, deer are often nocturnal. Use trail cams with field scan modes to determine real usage of your feeding areas as well as deer using your property altogether.
7) Planting too much feed in relationship to cover
g) Our goal should be 90-95% cover which may be a combination of timber and NWSG, so those with 50-80% food and little cover will experience poor results. In some cases due to agriculture operations there is little one can do except be realistic about deer sightings and hunting success. Work on creating the very best cover you can and minimize your feeding area and encourage fall tillage of ag crop fields after harvest.
Success is a combination of many factors based on the culmination of a great deal of knowledge put into practical use but often people ignore this and place all their hopes on one crop (for instance) and then wonder why they failed. I have had many failures in my lifetime and learned the hard way, I refused to listen and stubbornly ignored people who tried to teach me. Eventually I figured out that my Dad and my teachers were right and I enlisted the help of people willing to teach me (in this case math skills).
I'm willing to help anyone and everyone I can, be successful just as others helped me decades ago, so if you have questions that don't seem to get answered in this forum, please feel free to email me at dbltree2000@yahoo.com. Look over the "problems" and see if you have addressed those completely and never consider habitat changes a failure after only one year, I tell landowners to expect three years for complete results so have patience as well....
The way to adapt deer to feeding in one plot is to always provide food there and you can never accomplish this with one crop. Time after time I see people who continue to plant clover in one plot, corn in another and brassicas in the back 40 and so on and then they wonder why deer sightings are poor.
The simplest, most economical yet most effective way to plant yer around food sources in ONE field is to use a combination of clover, brassicas and the winter rye combination (winter rye/oats/forage peas/radish and red clover). Those crops together, planted in ONE field can, over most of the nation provide year around food sources and very quickly adapt deer to always feeding there.
A very simple way to accomplish this is to plant strips of those crops within that one centralized feeding area and then screen the food sources. Here we have a strip or winter rye/oats/peas/radish and red clover and a strip of brassicas screened by Egyptian Wheat
Landowners also often make the mistake of planting the plot to far away from heavy, safe bedding area, so be certain to keep you feeding area adjacent to bedding.
These strips will keep deer fed literally all fall, winter, spring and summer....
How is that possible??
The brassicas will provide both tops and roots and the latter will feed them well into mid winter
The winter rye combination will literally feed them from late August for a full year if necessary....the oats until mid December, the peas and radish until they are eaten or well into winter, the winter rye all winter and into spring, the red clover all spring and summer until it is tilled under and rotated to brassicas in mid July.
White clover has been established with the rye around the field perimeter to round out the year around food supply and diversify our food sources but this "green stuff" is drawing deer from even the neighbors combined grain fields and they are beating a path to it.
These deer are already adapted to finding all of their needs met and because this field is surrounded by NWSG and timber they will bed there, have their fawns there and literally spend there lives there.
In the spring the dead brassicas will be tilled under and planted to oats and berseem clover which will in turn be tilled under to rotate to the rye combination. Planting multiple crops in one field not only adapts your deer to always coming there but allows us to rotate crops yearly, build up organic matter, control weed problems, lower fertilizer and herbicide inputs and increase hunting success.
Planting one crop is a recipe for failure because once the crop is gone...so are the deer...
If you desire to succeed I would urge you to avoid these common mistakes...
1) Planting multiple plots
a) Plant ONE centrally located feeding area per 80-120 acres
2) Planting only one food source
b) Plant a combination of crops (not all mixed together but separately within the plot)
3) Planting multiple crops but in different plots
c) Plant ALL the crops within ONE feeding area, divide the feeding area into strips or blocks and plant all crops in one field
4)Planting in an open area too far from cover
d) To the extent possible, locate your single feeding area immediately adjacent to bedding cover and then screen any open areas with Egyptian Wheat, sorghum and eventually conifers for a permanent screen.
5) Poor or no bedding cover
e) People are often perplexed when they see few deer which usually stems from the fact they have wide open timber where deer do not feel safe. Utilize timber management and hinging techniques to improve bedding and plant open fields to NWSG.
6) Success is determined solely by observation
f) No landowner can observe deer on their property 24/7 and because many of the previously noted problems may not have been addressed, deer are often nocturnal. Use trail cams with field scan modes to determine real usage of your feeding areas as well as deer using your property altogether.
7) Planting too much feed in relationship to cover
g) Our goal should be 90-95% cover which may be a combination of timber and NWSG, so those with 50-80% food and little cover will experience poor results. In some cases due to agriculture operations there is little one can do except be realistic about deer sightings and hunting success. Work on creating the very best cover you can and minimize your feeding area and encourage fall tillage of ag crop fields after harvest.
Success is a combination of many factors based on the culmination of a great deal of knowledge put into practical use but often people ignore this and place all their hopes on one crop (for instance) and then wonder why they failed. I have had many failures in my lifetime and learned the hard way, I refused to listen and stubbornly ignored people who tried to teach me. Eventually I figured out that my Dad and my teachers were right and I enlisted the help of people willing to teach me (in this case math skills).
I'm willing to help anyone and everyone I can, be successful just as others helped me decades ago, so if you have questions that don't seem to get answered in this forum, please feel free to email me at dbltree2000@yahoo.com. Look over the "problems" and see if you have addressed those completely and never consider habitat changes a failure after only one year, I tell landowners to expect three years for complete results so have patience as well....
Do you beleive it is necessary to use both oats and winter rye where your deer population is not the same as you have in Iowa? I do not have a huge number of deer that use my property (but will be higing a of trees this winter to help with more cover) so I am not sure it is necessary to plant both. I was thinking of planting rye/peas/radish/clover. When you mentioned mechanically killy rye, I assume you mean by cutting it, correct? So that the clover can estalish itself?
dbltree
Super Moderator
The oats may not be necessary in your situation but you may want to increase the percentage of peas. They are the candy in the mix and will help adapt deer to your plot.
For those not sure of what "mix" we are referring too...this is what I have found to be most effective....
SWBUCKHNTR
Member
Hold on I spoke too soon. I was on this farm first shotgun season and there was no evidence of rye growing at all. I went back today for the first time since and had to snap a picture. I know it is really hard to see but there are sprouts of rye everywhere. Is it possible this stuff is growing with the upper 40 to 50 degree weather? I figured the soil temp would be way too low. Now I am wondering will this continue to grow next spring or will it sprout and die with the colder weather ahead?
SWBUCKHNTR
Member
I am having a hard time figuring out why it is growing now? It was planted on sept 26th never got rained on untill the first week of november and then another time the second week of november. There were a lot warmer temps then and it never sprouted. Why did it decide to grow now?
Daver
PMA Member
That is one of the strong points of rye...almost nothing grows later into the late fall than rye. Similar to your situation, I received essentially no rain on my rye either...until about 4-5 weeks after I had broadcast it. It too has grown about like what your pictures show and all of that growth was in late October into November.
dbltree
Super Moderator
Rye will germinate at 36 degrees and grow at 34 so since it didn't receive rain until November, it waited to germinate until it did. As Dave mentions that's just one of the great attributes of rye and in the spring it will probably take off and grow like mad!
dbltree
Super Moderator
December 23rd, 2011
The concept of planting ALL the food sources in one centralized feeding area is confusing for some who have developed bad habits that are now hard to break (something I know all about by the way...) Even if you are forced to plant several small plots (because of topography/field size/family etc.) you can still plant ALL the food sources in each field.
I have repeatedly mentioned that the reason for this is to adapt deer to always, always ALWAYS coming to ONE place, adapting them to using the same runways coming from the same bedding areas, 24/7, 365 days a year. Unfortunately there is always someone who was sleeping in class (been there done that) so they plant one thing and then are disappointed and frustrated with the results."How does dbltree get all these deer to come into those plots EVERY day and I can not? I guess I'll plant wheat...that will fix it....
No crop alone can "fix" the problem although white clover comes very near being the one crop that can help adapt deer to one feeding area for the longest period of time.
This pic is a cross section view of a very small area where I have a strip of winter rye/oats/peas/radish and clover, a strip of perennial white clover (Alice) and a strip of brassicas
We'll come back to that "view" but note that everything is grazed to the ground even though....when I turn in place it reveals standing soybeans!
That's crazy...right??! You mean deer will eat the rye combination, brassicas and white clover with standing soybeans ripe for the pickin'!?!? You bet!! They are eating the big Purple Top Turnips like they were Red Delicious apples!!
and mowing the rye combination to the dirt!!
"Gee...I heard/read that soybeans would trump almost anything!?"....guess not huh?
I NEVER advise planting only ONE crop unless it is a case of having no equipment in which case pure white clover can be the next best alternative. It's possible to frost seed it and maintain it with herbicides via a backpack sprayer so there are ALWAYS exceptions to every rule but for most people....there is usually no good nor valid reason to ever plant only one crop in one field. So when someone comments..."I planted rye and was disappointed" ...well....I know who was sleeping in class....
Let's go back to that first view...time after time people say "I didn't observe as many deer"...which of course leads one to wonder all kinds of questions because many people have a lot to learn about hunting itself. Other then in the late season sitting on a food plot is a low odds place to kill a mature buck so one should not be "observing" it in the first place. Secondly, as we all now (or should) there are dozens of factors that affect daylight deer movement, everything from moon phases, weather, roaming dogs, trespassers hunting pressure and the list goes on, so "observing"...while important, is a very ineffective way to determine plot usage or deer living on your property.
Most movement is likely to be nocturnal...especially if you are hunting the plot itself!
Trail cams then are the only really 100% effective means of allowing us to determine the success of our habitat program...in this pic they are feeding on the brassicas (at this point turnips)
here...the rye/oats/peas/radish combination
note the difference in only a mere 2 minutes...what we miss without cams
I hate to make derogatory or insulting comments but frankly....unless one is blind or living under a rock, it would impossible to look at thousands of pictures showing hundreds of deer on farms spread over several counties and not see how effective these crop combinations are. It would also be a stretch to say..." I don't know about rye...I think they like wheat better"....those people have pinned their hopes completely on one thing and then are missing out on ALL the other habitat improvements necessary to have a complete and successful program.
In this view the cam takes thousands of pictures a week of deer eagerly feeding on a strip of rye/oats/peas and radish as well as a strip of white clover....all of which is right beside a field of standing soybeans....
It doesn't matter how bad the weather gets
nor that I am not there to "observe"....the camera reveals the undeniable truth
They take advantage of ALL the food sources in part because they are adapted to coming there
and are just as content eating the white clover on the right
as the winter rye combo on the left
or soybeans in the background
Day or night....they are here....365 days a year
Friends....I have been disappointed and frustrated too so I know how you feel but I found real solutions and they have allowed me to be successful....
Don't pin your hopes on one crop or even food plots themselves but rather on ALL the habitat improvements and tools necessary to be successful at increasing your odds of harvesting mature bucks. Learn new hunting tactics that are far more productive then watching a food source by hunting funneled runways leading between bedding and feeding areas. Screen your property and plots with Egyptian Wheat, conifers and shrubs, create thick bedding areas using TSI and hinging and allow deer to feel secure by edge feathering the timber. Use trail cams to monitor funneled runways and feeding areas to have a better handle on what deer are actually living on your property.
Utilize the following crop combination in one centralized feeding area per 80-120 acres and adapt deer to always coming there, giving them no reason to ever leave your property (other then rutting bucks)
The concept of planting ALL the food sources in one centralized feeding area is confusing for some who have developed bad habits that are now hard to break (something I know all about by the way...) Even if you are forced to plant several small plots (because of topography/field size/family etc.) you can still plant ALL the food sources in each field.
I have repeatedly mentioned that the reason for this is to adapt deer to always, always ALWAYS coming to ONE place, adapting them to using the same runways coming from the same bedding areas, 24/7, 365 days a year. Unfortunately there is always someone who was sleeping in class (been there done that) so they plant one thing and then are disappointed and frustrated with the results."How does dbltree get all these deer to come into those plots EVERY day and I can not? I guess I'll plant wheat...that will fix it....
No crop alone can "fix" the problem although white clover comes very near being the one crop that can help adapt deer to one feeding area for the longest period of time.
This pic is a cross section view of a very small area where I have a strip of winter rye/oats/peas/radish and clover, a strip of perennial white clover (Alice) and a strip of brassicas
We'll come back to that "view" but note that everything is grazed to the ground even though....when I turn in place it reveals standing soybeans!
That's crazy...right??! You mean deer will eat the rye combination, brassicas and white clover with standing soybeans ripe for the pickin'!?!? You bet!! They are eating the big Purple Top Turnips like they were Red Delicious apples!!
and mowing the rye combination to the dirt!!
"Gee...I heard/read that soybeans would trump almost anything!?"....guess not huh?
I NEVER advise planting only ONE crop unless it is a case of having no equipment in which case pure white clover can be the next best alternative. It's possible to frost seed it and maintain it with herbicides via a backpack sprayer so there are ALWAYS exceptions to every rule but for most people....there is usually no good nor valid reason to ever plant only one crop in one field. So when someone comments..."I planted rye and was disappointed" ...well....I know who was sleeping in class....
Let's go back to that first view...time after time people say "I didn't observe as many deer"...which of course leads one to wonder all kinds of questions because many people have a lot to learn about hunting itself. Other then in the late season sitting on a food plot is a low odds place to kill a mature buck so one should not be "observing" it in the first place. Secondly, as we all now (or should) there are dozens of factors that affect daylight deer movement, everything from moon phases, weather, roaming dogs, trespassers hunting pressure and the list goes on, so "observing"...while important, is a very ineffective way to determine plot usage or deer living on your property.
Most movement is likely to be nocturnal...especially if you are hunting the plot itself!
Trail cams then are the only really 100% effective means of allowing us to determine the success of our habitat program...in this pic they are feeding on the brassicas (at this point turnips)
here...the rye/oats/peas/radish combination
note the difference in only a mere 2 minutes...what we miss without cams
I hate to make derogatory or insulting comments but frankly....unless one is blind or living under a rock, it would impossible to look at thousands of pictures showing hundreds of deer on farms spread over several counties and not see how effective these crop combinations are. It would also be a stretch to say..." I don't know about rye...I think they like wheat better"....those people have pinned their hopes completely on one thing and then are missing out on ALL the other habitat improvements necessary to have a complete and successful program.
In this view the cam takes thousands of pictures a week of deer eagerly feeding on a strip of rye/oats/peas and radish as well as a strip of white clover....all of which is right beside a field of standing soybeans....
It doesn't matter how bad the weather gets
nor that I am not there to "observe"....the camera reveals the undeniable truth
They take advantage of ALL the food sources in part because they are adapted to coming there
and are just as content eating the white clover on the right
as the winter rye combo on the left
or soybeans in the background
Day or night....they are here....365 days a year
Friends....I have been disappointed and frustrated too so I know how you feel but I found real solutions and they have allowed me to be successful....
Don't pin your hopes on one crop or even food plots themselves but rather on ALL the habitat improvements and tools necessary to be successful at increasing your odds of harvesting mature bucks. Learn new hunting tactics that are far more productive then watching a food source by hunting funneled runways leading between bedding and feeding areas. Screen your property and plots with Egyptian Wheat, conifers and shrubs, create thick bedding areas using TSI and hinging and allow deer to feel secure by edge feathering the timber. Use trail cams to monitor funneled runways and feeding areas to have a better handle on what deer are actually living on your property.
Utilize the following crop combination in one centralized feeding area per 80-120 acres and adapt deer to always coming there, giving them no reason to ever leave your property (other then rutting bucks)
Another year has came and went....I hope yours was successful and and enjoyable! I wish all of you a blessed Christmas and a happy and prosperous New Year..... :way:
SWBUCKHNTR
Member
Hey paul I was wondering if you have ever broadcast a fall mix into soy beans right as they are losing their leaves? I am wanting to get as much food in one area this next year and was wondering if this is an opition?
dbltree
Super Moderator
I overseed rye, radish and red clover as the leaves start to yellow....oats do not germinate well on the soil surface. Peas can also work fairly well IF you get plenty of rain.
Overseed rye at 100-150#'s per acre, radish at 5#'s and red clover at 12-15 (for spring forage(
I tell you what, I am glad I didn't put all my eggs in one basket this year for a billion reasons BUT one additional.... I LOVE beans late season BUT, with this warm weather and no snow- they are not the ticket right now, I wish I had even more turnips, radishes, rye, clover, etc. I knew that warm winters would put them on the forages, cereals & brassicas BUT I sure had no idea we'd get this poor/warm weather. Thank goodness of the Dbltree Buffet approach with a variety of food plot types/plantings. Geesh.