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Cereal Grains and cover crops

The rye seed will just lay there until it receives sufficient rainfall to germinate, even if that's not til late November since it will germinate down to 36 degrees and grow down to 34 degrees.

If rain comes late however, growth may not amount to much until spring....bummer! Sure hate to feed $16 beans to the deer! ;)
 
Risto- if u can resist- leave those beans. Ur rye will likely amount to little & w/this drought- ur food source will b even more rare & desirable.
 
Sure hate to feed $16 beans to the deer! ;)


Thanks for the dig Paul. :thrwrck: :D

I was not intending on cutting them until the prices kept going up.

Figured I could help pay off the loan a little quicker and still have feed for

the deer this winter. With no germination there will be nothing there for

them.

Skip,

It looks like I do not even have a choice right now. Started as a plot on a

new parcel acquired last year. With that bean price though I was hoping

for a kick back to pay it of quicker. Thanks for both your responses guys.
 
Dbltree-

Thanks so much for all you do to help myself and everyone. You are very helpful!

I have a question related to this statement: Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28

You say in a bind that 6-28-28 fertilizer would work. Would this hold true in Clarke County where the soil is that clay/sandy consistency? Thoughts? That's per acre too?

Thanks!
 
Thanks for the dig Paul. :thrwrck: :D

I was not intending on cutting them until the prices kept going up.

Figured I could help pay off the loan a little quicker and still have feed for

the deer this winter. With no germination there will be nothing there for

them.

Skip,

It looks like I do not even have a choice right now. Started as a plot on a

new parcel acquired last year. With that bean price though I was hoping

for a kick back to pay it of quicker. Thanks for both your responses guys.

If you have a loan to pay off...that would weigh heavily on cutting them IMO. Then you can feed more after that is taken care of.

Unless you are well off and the loan is very easy to pay....then I say leave the beans too.
 
Dbltree-

Thanks so much for all you do to help myself and everyone. You are very helpful!

I have a question related to this statement: Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28

You say in a bind that 6-28-28 fertilizer would work. Would this hold true in Clarke County where the soil is that clay/sandy consistency? Thoughts? That's per acre too?

Thanks!

The 6-28-28 is just an example of an analysis that will usually get enough P&K put on the urea (46-0-0) is a means of getting on enough nitrogen.

That said I you can't interchange the two, if that is what you means by "in a bind", you could use 400-500#'s of triple 19 and get all three NPK for instance but 6-28-28 is 28% P&K but only 6% N.

The best thing to do is soil test and determine your soils needs but in the absence of a soil test 400#'s of 6-28-28 (or something close) would most likely get your crop off and running, and yes...all figures I quote are "per acre"
 
October 4th, 2012

it's always interesting to (with the use of cams) watch how the strip plots and combinations of crops work in unison to keep deer coming year around yet not wipe one crop out, forcing them to seek out a new feeding area. That's often the problem with crops like corn and beans...alone they are short lived and easily decimated and soybeans are of no use while they turn and dry down, again forcing deer to move elsewhere.

The clover/brassica/cereal grain combinations used together in each feeding area never run out, never force deer to leave and usually within a year have habituated deer to depending on it and feeding there 365 days a year. Anyone with a lick of common sense can see the advantages of see that are adapted to using the same runways day after day...come hunting season.

In September deer begin to switch from clover to the succulent forage radish in the brassica blend

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Forage radish helps protect the rape and turnips as deer focus on it and in most cases they will ignore nearby ag fields in lieu of the highly palatable radish plants

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By late September the oats and rye reach an attractive state

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and as whitetails begin to wear out the radish plants...they eagerly turn on the cereals

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In this pic deer are literally feeding on each crop...clover in the background, brassicas in the center and the rye mix in the foreground...did I mention there is freshly harvest corn a few yards from this plot? Both standing and harvested corn...yet these deer are choosing the strip plot full of lush green forage.

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Here they are turning on the rye/oat/pea mix with a vengeance..note in each pic the plot is divided into strips of clover, brassicas and cereals that together keep them fed year around.

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Still very very dry here which slows growth but this is update on tow planting dates.... Right side August 22nd,left side September 6th...both dates within the parameters of planting times for my area.

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Update on the resiliency of winter rye...here no-tilled into a farm lane, no fertilizer, no rain, hard packed soil...not to shabby!

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If you would like to increase hunting success by adapting deer to feeding in the same place 365 days a year, while at the same time lowering fertilizer and herbicide costs and insuring against drought related failures...consider the following crop combinations planted in strips or blocks in each feeding area..... ;)

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year
 
October 11th, 2012

2012...tough year, a disaster for many and a huge disappointment for many landowners who ended up with little or no food on their hunting property. While I have been growing winter rye for nearly 50 years, at no time has the use of rye been more glaringly impressive then this year...keeping in mind that this is the worst drought since 1956 or the worst in my lifetime.

The attributes of winter rye over other cereals are many any equally impressive but the soil building, water retaining qualities of winter rye are beyond what even I would have though possible and because I use cereal rye in ALL of my rotations...we have crops where otherwise we would have...none....

The only places where rye was not grown are in new, first time plantings where sod was turned under or perhaps areas previously in ag crops and where those two meet....the difference is incredible!

This is a rye/oats/peas mix...foreground planted where rye/red clover was planted a year ago....back area (towards EW) was sod, tilled under and planted to oats this spring...unless one is stubbornly blind to the truth...it is obvious the benefits of planting rye!!

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Brassicas....right side followed rye, left side did not...left is very near a complete failure while right is about as good as it gets...and that in a record setting drought year!

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my friend Phil sent in these pics of his soybeans....no rye (note you can see the soil the beans are so thin)

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Rye last fall...here the beans are so thick and robust the soil cannot be seen

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Without a comparison one might think the soybeans with no rye did fine, but the side that followed rye is far better, thicker, higher yielding and Phil has planted beans here for 5 years in a row with nothing different other then adding rye last fall into the standing beans...right side no rye, left side rye

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Phil also noted that deer are pounding his rye he planted this fall

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Hard to beat winter rye....higher in protein on average then other cereals including wheat, grows at lower temps insuring that deer have an all winter food source and scavenges soil nutrients that other cereals use rather then store

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I always have to chuckle when someone thinks deer may like oats better then rye (for instance)...but they eat both to the ground and never once in all the years I have been planting cereals have they chose one over another....as you see here, they eat it ALL!

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Oats grow faster then rye and that's one of the reasons I use them in tandem, oats provide quick forage while the rye is catching up but in early winter the oats will freeze out leaving the rye to keep deer fed all winter, yet because I used oats and did not plant excessively high rates of rye...it will not suffocate the clovers in the spring. Another advantage of cereal rye is that is does not tiller like wheat, again allowing the clovers to grow rather then crowding it out like wheat in the spring.

The choice is yours...whitetails are opportunistic and will eat almost anything edible....why not plant crops that are better for both soils and whitetails.... ;)

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year
 
dbltreee,
my soil in west virgina is kinda acidic 5.4 ph. i had a one acre crop of buckwheat, sorgrum,soy beans and rape. i planted in may 1. it grew ok, not great but ok i guess. moday the 15 i will be down there where i will be discing in 2 tons of lime this go around. Along with the standing plot,whats left of it for some organic matter. gonna try and put in the rye/clover combo you use. think it has a chance of growing good? still a good month at least before the worries of killing frost. what about the spring. think the ph increase from the lime effect by that time will help my clover? thanks for your input and posts/pics. very inspirining you are!!!
 
dbltreee,
my soil in west virgina is kinda acidic 5.4 ph. i had a one acre crop of buckwheat, sorgrum,soy beans and rape. i planted in may 1. it grew ok, not great but ok i guess. moday the 15 i will be down there where i will be discing in 2 tons of lime this go around. Along with the standing plot,whats left of it for some organic matter. gonna try and put in the rye/clover combo you use. think it has a chance of growing good? still a good month at least before the worries of killing frost. what about the spring. think the ph increase from the lime effect by that time will help my clover? thanks for your input and posts/pics. very inspirining you are!!!

If you have a month before frost, then yes it should do fine...be better if the lime was on for a while longer but it should do the trick. Adding some fast acting pellet line could help speed up the process.

The rye will do fine, the clovers are the only thing that might suffer a little but if you get rains, should do ok :way:
 
Comments by others regarding the rye mix...

They are loving the new rye/pea/radish plot!!
I must add we've planted a variety of different plots the past couple years. This year was our first experience planting the famous 'Dbltree Salad Bar' and WOW! There are more deer hammering this plot than ever before! We were blessed with 4" of rain on the plot since planting, and Lord willing some more rain tomorrow would be great. But the deer are tearing this stuff up! And some big ole' target bucks are finding a taste for it... now to just get them to come out 30 minutes sooner..
Here they are turning on the rye/oat/pea mix with a vengeance..note in each pic the plot is divided into strips of clover, brassicas and cereals that together keep them fed year around.

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October 15th, 2012

My favorite time of year and a time when our habitat work is put to the test...80+ acres on 14 farms all with the same results....

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The winter rye/oat/pea/radish/clover mix is getting hammered....

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Right now tend to walk thru the brassica strips to feast on the succulent rye, oats and peas

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Areas close to improved cover (where significant amounts of hinging have been done) are in fact at risk of being grazed to the dirt!

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We received anywhere from 3-5" of rain across our area this past weekend which will help encourage growth to keep up with grazing

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When the corn, soybeans and brassicas are gone

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Winter rye will still be green and growing...

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and attracting whitetails from neighboring properties clear into spring

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and all the time scavenging soil nutrients that other cereal grains can not and sending roots down as much as 4 feet to help next years crops get beyond the hardpan. Whitetails don't care about any of that however...they just want a dependable source of food that they can count on every day...it's up to you to provide the right combination of crops to accomplish this.... ;)

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year
 
Building better habitat

I am very blessed to be able to build whitetail habitat for a living, but how can one build habitat for any type of wildlife if you don't truly understand the creatures you wish to help? Habitat for pheasants for instance is somewhat different then for quail and the average bird hunter often has no idea what either bird really requires to live, breed and survive.

So it is with whitetails...the average hunter/landowner is able to spend very little time studying, observing, gathering data and putting it all together to really understand how whitetails live year around. Usually they see them for a short period of time during hunting seasons and that tends to shape or mold their thinking about what whitetails really need, what makes them tick? How far do they travel? What are their needs? What makes them feel safe? Why do they live here and not there?

Plenty has been written on this subject but to often the writers have no more knowledge on the subject then any average hunter because they to must work and their days are spent in an office versus the fields and timber. Their views are often further skewed by advertising dollars that pay their salary, so in the end our own thoughts and views on habitat may be tainted by confusing and misleading information, causing us to make poor decisions when it comes to habitat.

For my part, one of the most important aspects of my job is really understanding whitetails and how I can capitalize on what I learn to create the optimum habitat that provides for their needs 24-7, 365 days a year.

I have learned that if all of a whitetails needs are met within a small area, they will travel very little and their needs are thick dense cover and reliable food sources immediately adjacent to the cover/bedding. Part of my job involves checking large numbers of trail cams on many farms which gives me a unique window into whitetail movement that few people would be privy too and often I go through 50,000 cam pics in an evening. Bucks especially become easy to pattern and their range limitations become quickly apparent, most traveling less then a 1/2 mile other then during the rut.

Families of white deer for instance yield valuable information that has allowed me to see that whitetails (whose needs are being met) may travel as little as a 1/4 mile or less, sometimes barely a few hundred yards make up their daily movements.

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You may wonder what, if anything all this has to do with growing food sources?? Knowing a whitetails habits and needs has everything to do with building better habitat and there is no one thing, no one crop, no single means of providing the kind of habitat that will cause them to travel...in very small circles.

Timber management and native warm season grass are two major habitat improvements that will do more to hold whitetails year around then any planted food source but when we combine optimum cover with a safe hidden food source ...we have the most successful combination!

Some try to minimize the value of cover and the proximity of cover to food, others fret about supposed palatablty concerns and hinge the success or failure of their habitat and hunting success on what they think deer like...all of which it could be said has them...barking up the wrong tree.

If deer are not eating your food sources you most likely have...

1) Very poor cover
2) Cover to far from feed
3) Few deer (because of poor cover)
4) Food sources that only offer food part of the year
5) Too much food for the number of deer using your habitat (including ag crops)
6) Food planted in open, insecure, unsafe areas

The pictures of deer that I share come from multiple farms and landowners but in each and every case we have created optimum cover thru the use of radical hinging and timber management techniques. We have created feeding areas of the appropriate size and number and then plant year around food sources within those fields and then...screen them so deer feel safe feeding there.

Deer literally bed yards away from the food source and eventually adapt to counting on that feeding area, eventually refusing to leave even when near by ag crops are harvested. You can create this exact same scenario on your farm but to do so, you must make thick dense cover...Job 1 and then provide feed adjacent to it.

Once that is accomplished...they will devour anything and everything you plant for them...this combination plot of rye/oats/peas/radish/clover on right and brassicas on left has already been demolished!

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Heavy, thick cover borders this protected, safe feeding area but I would also add that large fields of soybeans, alfalfa and corn surround this plot...not yards away, but feet!

The rye mix has been eaten to the ground!

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The brassica mix is now only a few inches high and alive only because deer have been focusing on the rye mix

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The clover element of the plot has also been grazed hard and only a few inches high

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Thick heavy cover then has EVERYTHING to do with plot usage and the proximity of the food source to cover of utmost importance!

Feeding areas should be screened, preferably with natural cover such as trees (conifers being ideal) but insulating whitetails from roads, buildings even just "wide open space" that makes deer feel uncomfortable using in daylight hours

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The rye mix planted in that pic was no-tilled in to an area where because of extreme drought, brassicas did not emerge and whitetails....though they have never eaten rye before in their lives....are lapping it up!

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The soil in this field is poor and contains little organic matter and this spelled doom for the brassicas planted there this year, but the same poor dry soil does not affect the rye mix in the slightest and shown here is the portion planted first on August 23rd.

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because of heavy grazing, the earlier planted crop is only slightly taller then the crop planted nearly a month later!

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Many places the rye and oats have been eaten off completely exposing the red clover that will keep deer fed next spring and summer

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Deer will readily eat all cereal grains and they show no preference between rye and oats nor wheat and triticale when I have added those. So why not just use rye?

I plant rye at 50#'s per acre so that I have no concerns about competition with the red clover the following spring, but 50#'s is not enough to feed hungry whitetails putting on fat reserves in the fall. I add oats to help fill that need knowing they will freeze off leaving only the rye behind. This works perfectly because oats grow rapidly, much faster then rye at first and help provide quick fall forage...because it grows faster, oats obviously will initially be grazed harder. They will be taller and have wider leaves early on until the rye catches up.

The taller plants on left are oats and the winter rye is in foreground....the average landowner usually can not tell them apart

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In this field they are not allowing the forage radish to put on much growth, keeping them grazed the ground as well

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Another farm, another feeding area, a different set of deer....same thick surrounding cover, same hidden, screened feeding are, same combination of year around food sources (clover, brassicas and the rye mix)...same results!!

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The rye/oat/pea/radish/clover mix is getting pounded!

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Those deer know they can count on food being in that spot, every day, year around...they don't care there is corn, alfalfa and soybeans a short walk away...they don't care what forages are planted here...they are opportunistic animals that take advantage of any food source that they can safely feed on and...become adapted to coming here 365 days a year!

Of course...where the does are...so are the bucks...

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and right now these "bulls" could care less about food...

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They make their home in the NWSG and thick surrounding cover

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No amount of food of any kind, size or shape...will draw them away from the girls

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Don't be confused by people who place all the emphasis on food, or types of food...

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provide for all their needs and your property will soon have more deer then you ever expected...

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and done right...perhaps...the buck of a lifetime too boot...

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The following are the crop combinations that have worked well for me and now, hundreds of other landowners across the country. Together...they provide year around food sources, lower herbicide and fertilizer needs, build organic matter and adapt whitetails to coming there day in and day out, making them incredibly easy to harvest.... ;)

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year
 
Continued Drought?

A warmer/drier then normal winter seems at first not such a bad thing but it could spell continued disaster for the ag industry and failures for landowners hoping to provide food sources for their whitetails. The NOAA Winter Outlook is definitely not in our favor...

Drier-than-average conditions in the upper Midwest, including Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa and northern Missouri and eastern parts of North and South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, and western Illinois.

What happens in the Pacific can change everything of course but as it stands now, this is the outlook

NOAA’s 2012 U.S. Winter Outlook

With much of the nation still in severe to exceptional drought, the prognosis for a warm dry winter is disconcerting at best...

U.S. Drought Monitor

We can not change the weather but we can provide some insurance against continued drought and those wise enough to include winter rye and red clover in their crop rotation will have a fighting chance at successfully growing a crop during hot dry conditions next summer.

In most of zone 5 or points south there is still time to overseed some winter rye into corn, soybeans, thin brassicas or any other situation that might leave so room for the rye seed to germinate and grow. Unlike other cereals cereal rye will grow down to 34 degrees and will germinate as low as 36 degrees...this allows it to be broadcast on top in late fall yet still provide a tremendous cover crop next spring.

nearly 400 miles of root systems that can penetrate subsoils, grow as much as 4' deep hold water and scavenge nutrients that can be used by ensuing crops. The sheer size and immensity of the root systems set winter rye apart from other cover crops providing tons of biomass to build up organic matter and give crops a fighting chance even in severe, extended drought.

Any cover crop is a plus, even weeds provide a source of organic matter and crops like forage radish can also help break up hardpan but no other crop can provide the massive benefits of...winter rye...and be an extremely palatable, high protein food source at the same time

When overseeding 50-150#'s of rye can be sown but in most cases 50#'s is plenty and with a warm wet week in the forecast this is a perfect time to get some seed on.

Meanwhile....the rye/oat/pea/radish/red clover plantings....

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Continue to be grazed to the dirt!

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You can plant almost anything because whitetails will eat almost anything, but...when possible...plant the best combinations that can survive severe weather conditions and insure you won't be on the list of disappointed landowners next spring.... ;)

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year
 
I have been amazed at the rye mix and how deer are using it!!

Looks like a bunch of hogs have been in the plot!!

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I guess so Phil!! :way:

Report from Scott in MI

. I have always planted brassicas, clover and oats but not like yours, I tried your rye, oat and pea mix this fall and am totally amazed with the results. Tonight I sat and watched deer feed through my brassicas and almost run to the cereal grain mix and eat there for over a hour. My cereal plot is starting to look like a fairway on a golf course
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from Brad in Missouri

My food plots are looking awesome the deer like the brassica's but are really hammering the rye mix.
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Fred in Iowa..

I am a believer in the cereal grain mix now, my deer are pounding it, crazy how many deer were in it
Note the beautiful stand of switchgrass surrounding Fred's plots (established by frost seeding)...perfect setup!

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Usage however is relevant to the deer density on any give property and contrary to popular opinion you can't "pull" whitetails from a mile away (winter/deep snow being an exception), so what to expect with lower deer numbers?

Here's an example...44 acres that was previously in pasture, with the exception of some cedars it's almost exclusively hedge trees and locusts and pretty open. It can be improved of course but it is what it is for now...10 acres of crop in corn this year and roughly 3 ac of feeding area. Due to budget constraints I was asked to skip fertilizer and just no-till in the rye mix.

With only 15-20 acres of mediocre, unimproved cover....we can not expect this feeding are to be mowed to the dirt, there simply are not that many deer here...yet...

Several doe groups

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and some giant bucks call this small property home...

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Freshly combined corn means deer have food a plenty

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and a well hidden feeding area that is larger then needed for the deer living on this property

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We can not reasonably expect...

A) that deer will not travel to the corn stubble to feed on the scattered corn
B) that the feeding area will have 30 deer in it every evening

We can however expect that deer will visit the feeding area daily...note the grazed cereals

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Forage radish with no nitrogen are not likely to thrive and in this case it remains to be seen if the smaller number of deer living here will even hit them this fall?

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The clovers in the mix will keep them fed next spring and summer and as the cover thickens, red cedars fill in the old pasture areas and the supply of year around feed (where there has never, ever been any before) adapts deer to living there...things will begin to change!

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Points here are as always...COVER is most important and as you build better,thicker clover surrounding the feeding area....deer numbers will increase and plots barely touched at first may 3 years later be eaten to the dirt. Properties with poor or no cover will have few deer and in turn food sources of any kind will see limited use...the food source is not to blame, yet to a man...landowners think that switching to this food or that will "fix" their problem...it won't, not now or ever. Fix you cover and then be ready...because deer will be as Phil says...in there like hogs!

The property mentioned is for sale so if you are looking for a diamond in the rough...check it out on Whitetail Properties and give Rich Baugh a call. I love working with places that at first seem to have little to offer and then watching them turn into an amazing whitetail oasis in a few short years and every year...that piece is only going to get better!


Create great cover with NWSG and good timber management utilizing hinging techniques and then plant year around food sources in hidden well screened areas and you'll have a winning combination....


Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year
 
sod buster radish

This year I tried planting radish around the outside edges of my corn and soybean plots.My local coop said that they could get me groundhog radish but when it came in it was sod buster. They have done very well even with the lack of rain. My question is my deer dont seem to be eating any of them. I amtrying to figure out if they were the wrong radish our if i just have to much food. This is what i have, 5acre of clover,5 acre alflfa,6 acres of corn and soybeans stripped 4 rows corn 4 rows beans,in the bean rows planted rye. I know this is tough question without knowing alot more of the facts just wanted to know yor thoughts. Thanks for all your info.
 
Dbltree

When you state this about the cereal grain combo "Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28" can you please clarify something for me. If I am starting a new plot (next year) do you mean to put down 100-200#s of urea and also add 400#s of 6-28-28. Or for the new plot just do the 6-28-28. Just curious if the extra urea was needed with the fertilizer...wasn't sure based on your wording. Thanks for your help!
 
This year I tried planting radish around the outside edges of my corn and soybean plots.My local coop said that they could get me groundhog radish but when it came in it was sod buster. They have done very well even with the lack of rain. My question is my deer dont seem to be eating any of them. I am trying to figure out if they were the wrong radish our if i just have to much food. This is what i have, 5acre of clover,5 acre alflfa,6 acres of corn and soybeans stripped 4 rows corn 4 rows beans,in the bean rows planted rye. I know this is tough question without knowing alot more of the facts just wanted to know yor thoughts. Thanks for all your info.

Sodbuster is fine, it's just another forage radish so if deer aren't eating yours I'm guessing to much food and they have never eaten a radish plant before. Lot's of weather ahead...when it gets colder and they have less feed...they may get to liking them just fine...;)

When you state this about the cereal grain combo "Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28" can you please clarify something for me. If I am starting a new plot (next year) do you mean to put down 100-200#s of urea and also add 400#s of 6-28-28. Or for the new plot just do the 6-28-28. Just curious if the extra urea was needed with the fertilizer...wasn't sure based on your wording. Thanks for your help!

If you are starting from scratch I would add 100#'s urea and 400#'s 6-28-28...

When rotating 1/2 the plot to brassicas I fertilize the brassicas heavily and only use 100#'s urea...if any at all on the rye. Brassicas are like corn and require heavy amounts of NPK to thrive but the cereals can get by with far less once initial nutrient levels have been drought up to par.
 
bad pic

bad pic, sorry, buck eating on the cereal grain mix got this from my brother ths morning off his cell, and then rt after that a text that said gotta go field full of deer, and a lot more horns,



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Thanks for sharing the pic Jerred :way:


November 4th, 2012

The rut is just getting started here in Iowa and across much of the country for that matter so i won't be checking the feeding areas for some time now and but the bucks will be checking the does using them. I'll be hunting the funnels leading from cover to food waiting for cruising bucks or a hot doe with buck in tow....

I often remind landowners that whitetails will eat almost anything and a friend of mine sent me a pic of deer feeding in a mix of nothing more then cool season grasses, something we would assume they might never eat.

deereatinggrass.jpg


Whitetails are adaptable creatures and will take advantage of any and all available food sources and I see my own deer spend hours foraging thru the NWSG fields despite lush food sources and freshly combined crops. That doesn't mean they ignore those food sources of course, far from it but they are certainly willing to take advantage of all types of other native food sources and browse.

The idea then that deer might be so picky or finicky that they may choose one cereal over another is, well...a myth at best. Use common sense and don't let ads and unproven/unverifiable comments sway your choices, whatever they may be.

Update on the rye mix no-till drilled into mowed white clover...

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Because the drought slowed the clover growth the mix did fairly well...note that this clover survived because there was rye there last year

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a little too much competition for the radish plants but some did ok

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While clovers fix a tremendous amount of nitrogen, little of it is available to other plants until they are killed and begin to decompose, not a big deal for the cereal's but radish plants are heavy N users.

Grazing is obvious...

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and the rye and oats in the mix are competing well with the clovers...with another drought very possible next year, the rye may very well allow the clover to flourish despite the dry weather.

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On the normal strip plot areas the rye mix is doing outstanding thanks to some fall rains and better yet....the clovers in the mix ate doing great as well!

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The red clovers in the mix unfortunately are the most overlooked by those choosing to plant this mix, yet are one of the most important aspects both for soil building, nitrogen fixation and providing year around food sources in each centrally located feeding area

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The forage radish in the mix has reach a height where it is attractive and deer are focusing on them at this point

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Deer eat the rye and oats evenly and at no point, ever do they choose on over then other. The reason I use both oats and rye then has NOTHING to do with preference but rather practicality...oats grow quickly in the fall and produce forage quicker to help provide early fall forage. In December they freeze out leaving only the winter rye to feed deer thru the winter and early spring but because it's planted at a lower rate (without oats I would need to double the rate) the rye will not suffocate clovers in the spring. Because rye does not tiller like wheat it is a perfect companion for the clovers and provides outstanding fawning cover if left standing.

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The combination of brassicas and the rye mix helps insure year around food sources and deer forage back and forth between the two, this helps keep them from decimating either one and insures that the brassica mix will provide a late December thru mid winter food source from both tops and roots.

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Loads of feed right now but it's always interesting to come back and see these feeding areas in January...after 50-60 deer have been foraging in them every day and night!

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The combination of clover around the edges and/or odd areas within the feeding area, brassicas and the rye mix provides and outstanding source of food and together keeps them coming year around.

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This is Iowa...it goes without saying that every feeding area I plant has corn and soybean stubble a short distance away...yet the first place they visit is the feeding areas they have adapted to coming to...365 days a year

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They may visit the stubble fields during the night but that is temporary and bucks know they can count on finding does in and around the feeding areas.

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Bucks don't spend much time feeding this time of year but...after the rut they will be gaunt and hungry and they will return to these food sources, especially when the snow starts flying! It is a myth as well that one needs corn or soybeans when the snow gets deep...these deer will plow thru knee deep snow for everything planted in these plots....

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With few exceptions (that being places with few or no deer) corn and soybeans will have short lived usefulness and will be quickly decimated, once gone...so will be the deer. The food sources listed below however will together, provide food sources year around and adapt deer to feeding there every day of the year. Because winter rye can grow down to 34 degrees (something no other cereal is capable of) it can provide continued growth far later and earlier then any other cereal. Combined with the fact it is higher in crude protein then other cereals it has distinct advantages that set it apart and make it one of the key components of mixes noted below.

Have a safe and successful season all :way:

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year
 
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