Cereal Grains and cover crops

jerred44 said:
is there any harm with not spraying the rye and just mowing in July?
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You certainly could mow it in July, but by then it will start dying off on it's own, so you may not have to even mow it.

FWIW, I left about a 4 acre spot of rye alone last spring and let it "grow itself out". The rye grew like crazy during this timeframe last year and got probably 5'-6' tall and was excellent cover for birds, deer, etc. I suspect it was a key part in helping me boost my pheasant numbers on my place as it provided great nesting cover and brooding cover.

I then just drilled over it in early September, actually Paul did :D, but it worked out fine AND after getting my soil tests back a week or so ago that area where I left the rye alone last year now has a higher organic content(OC) reading than anywhere else on my farm. I suspect that the rye that I just let go last year was a big part of the OC spike.
 
I know for me the issue is how do you control the residue if you don't have the ability to drill. I mowed my rye down in July of last year (3-4ft) and trying to till and replant my brassicas was nothing short of a nightmare. I ended up planting in 4-6 inches of residue (rye stubble) on top of the soil. My 7ft tiller and 80hp tractor did not like it at all. Maybe the drought hindered my effectiveness. I was considering mowing a little sooner this year. Any thoughts??
 
SoDakarcher said:
I know for me the issue is how do you control the residue if you don't have the ability to drill. I mowed my rye down in July of last year (3-4ft) and trying to till and replant my brassicas was nothing short of a nightmare. I ended up planting in 4-6 inches of residue (rye stubble) on top of the soil. My 7ft tiller and 80hp tractor did not like it at all. Maybe the drought hindered my effectiveness. I was considering mowing a little sooner this year. Any thoughts??
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Normally rye straw is very easy to till under once dry (if green it can wind up in a tiller) so i suspect the hard dry soil was the problem? That said the whole idea is to plant brassicas into the organic matter left from the rye straw/roots so that should have been a good thing.

Couple things to remember here...if tilling the rye under for brassicas (the main rotation involved here) we do NOT want the rye to go to seed!!! You'll have a mass of rye coming up in your brassicas which would cause terrible competition and the brassicas would likely fail.

Regardless if you spray or mow, do it before the rye plants set seed. If planting RR soybeans into rye, then it's not a problem but we want to avoid having to spray clethodim on the brassicas.

We spray the rye as it heads out but before the seed heads fill, the rye stays standing, provides cover and then we mow/shred in early July. In mid July we disc or till under the rye and red clover to plant brassicas and we want as much residue on top as possible. It is neither necessary nor helpful to "bury" the rye straw and clover, we want the organic matter on top.

Organic farmers simply roll the rye flat and plant into the straw mulch which then holds down weeds, conserves soil moisture and helps build organic matter...:way:
 
I planted straight rye last fall and then frost seeded white clover this early spring. I'm wanting to establish the clover. Do I spray clethodim only to kill the rye? Thanks
 
TDswitchback26 said:
I planted straight rye last fall and then frost seeded white clover this early spring. I'm wanting to establish the clover. Do I spray clethodim only to kill the rye? Thanks
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Yes...if white or red clover was planted with the rye last fall so it's well established by now we can add 6-8 ounces of glyphosate (Roundup) but if the clovers are tiny seedling, use only clethodim.

You can use up to a quart of clethodim per acre so higher rates will cause no harm to clovers (or other broadleaves) but expense would become an issue.

It's often hard to find clethodim in smaller quantities locally but always check your near by farm co-op first and they almost always will have crop oil and glyphosate.

The following are a couple sources for clethodim...

Rural King - clethodim source

Keystone Pest Solutions - clethodim source
 
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On a farm I acquired last summer I finally got the ok to plant food plots this winter. The property is only 78 acres. 42 acres of timber and 36 acres that were previously overgrown pasture but this year will be corn. I have a small area to plant my plots (2.6 acres) which was overgrown grass/weeds (120ft wide by 980ft long) separating timber from soon to be corn field. Of the 2.6 acres I planted 1.5 acres of clover (I now realize that was probably too much clover based on what you recommend). The rest will be split between brassicas and the winter rye mix. Im worried that won't be enough brassicas and rye. My question is could a guy go in early-mid sept and broadcast your winter rye mix in between corn rows and have it grow for the late season? If not, what would you recommend for a solution? Thanks for all the great advice.
 
eiowaarcher said:
On a farm I acquired last summer I finally got the ok to plant food plots this winter. The property is only 78 acres. 42 acres of timber and 36 acres that were previously overgrown pasture but this year will be corn. I have a small area to plant my plots (2.6 acres) which was overgrown grass/weeds (120ft wide by 980ft long) separating timber from soon to be corn field. Of the 2.6 acres I planted 1.5 acres of clover (I now realize that was probably too much clover based on what you recommend). The rest will be split between brassicas and the winter rye mix. Im worried that won't be enough brassicas and rye. My question is could a guy go in early-mid sept and broadcast your winter rye mix in between corn rows and have it grow for the late season? If not, what would you recommend for a solution? Thanks for all the great advice.
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Yes but late August would be best time
 
eiowaarcher - if you are not the one putting the corn in, you may what to check with the farmer as he may not appreciate the extra vegetation in the spring. It grows tall and quick in the spring!
 
Fawning cover

One of our landowners said "hey...when you gonna mow that rye?? I can't see any deer on my cameras??!!"



I told him..."we're not, we'll spray it so we don't kill any ones" because does love this fawning cover! In just one small field Jess saw three fawns run out while spraying and the landowner was real happy we didn't mow...



The combination of winter rye and clovers makes ideal fawning habitat and upland nesting cover to boot! Food and cover along with stuff that's hard for predators to hunt in!



Though killed by the clethodim/glyphosate/crop oil cocktail...the rye straw will remain standing until we shred it in early July to plant brassicas. The killed straw will not interfere with the red clover planted with the rye last fall allowing it to thrive, feeding deer all summer and fixing nitrogen for the brassicas as it does



The brassica/rye mix rotation is and outstanding combination because if properly done, it feeds deer year around, builds drought tolerant soils and...creates awesome fawning and nesting habitat at the same time...

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or crimson and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot...we use 50# each rye, oats and peas along with radish and clover seed all planted in half of each feeding area

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre

Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28 but for best results soil test and add only what is necessary.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year
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Had a buddy plant alice white and rye this past weekend.

Is there any reason to plant rye in the spring? I assume it will get to tall and

stemmy for the deer? If cut will it grow back?

I always wait for Labor day to plant mine but maybe he knows something that I don't

know?
 
Only reason I could see planting it now would be for a cover crop to sort of protect the clover from weeds, but usually oats are better for that. But you're right, the rye will get stemmy and thick, and unattractive to deer. Is he planning on keeping that plot just in clover or is he planning to till it under and plant something else?
 
I am thinking he is going to leave it in clover. I agree with using the oats as the nurse

crop.

I was just wondering if he knew something that I did not know.

One would think with all the food they have now that the rye would not even be a

very good attractant this time of year.
 
Rye can be grown as a spring cover crop but rarely is, not great advantage or anything, just mow off when mature
 
? What purpose do the oats serve? I've read in some of your posts that u noticed the deer seem to like oATS and rye about the same, back home on our farm in illinois nobody hunts until the last week of October, and by then the oats are dead. We have clover, brassicas, corn and beans also your cereal combo, do I really need to add the oats to it?
 
Last fall I planted the rye mix and it didn't germinate until mid October so it was a failure. So I went in early march and frost seeded Alice clover onto the bare dirt. Just a week ago I went down to mow those plots and the rye was 4' tall. I was expecting to see some lush clover with the rye but was shocked to see none at all?? Almost two acres of this mix and nothing to show for it! Any idea why the clover didn't grow? We've had ample moisture so far. I'm stumped.
 
impactarcher said:
Last fall I planted the rye mix and it didn't germinate until mid October so it was a failure. So I went in early march and frost seeded Alice clover onto the bare dirt. Just a week ago I went down to mow those plots and the rye was 4' tall. I was expecting to see some lush clover with the rye but was shocked to see none at all?? Almost two acres of this mix and nothing to show for it! Any idea why the clover didn't grow? We've had ample moisture so far. I'm stumped.
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I had this happen a few years ago. Just mow the rye down and the clover should come up nicely. It probably is under there just hasn't had enough sunlight to branch out.
 
SEIowaDeerslayer said:
I had this happen a few years ago. Just mow the rye down and the clover should come up nicely. It probably is under there just hasn't had enough sunlight to branch out.
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As an FYI, from an experienced "rye mower"...:D

4' tall rye can be pretty tough to mow down. The long rye stems will really want to wrap around the spindle/blades of a mower. Also, the sheer volume of matter from a thick stand of tall rye will also tend to choke out a mower too. (Note - I do not have a bar mower, so that might work fine.)

You may need to "flatten" the rye first and then let it die and rot a little to be able to get it mowed off with a conventional mower.
 
We used one of those big tractor mowers pulled behind our tractor, didn't seem to have an issue getting through the rye which at the time was like 5' tall. I definitely wouldn't take a small mower in to mow rye that tall! You're right, that stuff is stemmy and can be a pain.
 
Daver said:
As an FYI, from an experienced "rye mower"...:D

4' tall rye can be pretty tough to mow down. The long rye stems will really want to wrap around the spindle/blades of a mower. Also, the sheer volume of matter from a thick stand of tall rye will also tend to choke out a mower too. (Note - I do not have a bar mower, so that might work fine.)

You may need to "flatten" the rye first and then let it die and rot a little to be able to get it mowed off with a conventional mower.
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I agree with you totally Daver.

I took the route of spraying it this year.

It browned up nicely and I will start getting ready for my turnips here

at the end of this month.
 
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