Cereal Grains and cover crops

[risto2351]

By golly they can move a lot of snow when they get hungry enough!

Paul,

Now I just need to figure out what incentive I can think of to
get them to move the snow on my lane. :grin:

BTW- I have a turnip, brassica, GFR plot right next to this one that was getting hammered also.

7 more inches of snow fell last night with more coming.

 

[dbltree]

Seeing is believing they say and I have to admit had I not seen this with my own eyes even I wouldn't have believed it!

Headed for my Lick Creek Blind at noon today hoping to waylay a good buck heading for my milo/soybean field where I saw them a few days ago.

I knew they would be inclined to move mid day so I just sat down and took a little snooze, snug and warm against the winds. Sure enough...opened my eyes at 2:00 p.m. to see the winter rye full of deer!

By dark I had counted (conservatively) 54 deer foraging in the winter rye/oats/forage peas/forage radish/clover combination planting.

Nothing about any of that really surprises me...watched 40-50 deer feeding in rye many times

What completely blows my mind is that not one single deer ever entered the milo/soybean plot only yards away

It got up to 35 and the snow melted off so I can only surmise that the deer took advantage of the green forage while they could? I did have strips of brassicas that were decimated early on and I overseeded rye and Groundhog forage radish into the brassicas and that rye of course was much shorter and deer concentrated on it despite the fact it is grazed to the dirt!

Bucks...not sure how many actually came out but enough I lost count

The all grazed contentedly at 30-50 yards from the blind

Chowing down on the rye

and not giving the beans a second glance??

Always gets the heart pumping when another "rack" emerges from the timber

One was tempting although the pic is a little blurry

All of this just points again to the attractiveness of winter rye to whitetails and it's versatility planted as a combination with peas and radish or overseeded into standing crops like soybeans.

Rye and radishes overseeded into standing soybeans offer the best of both worlds and as we can see here...sometimes they prefer the green...over the grain....

 

[risto2351]

Paul,
The buck you are waiting for must be a real hog.

Question I am wondering though is aren't you a little worried about
shooting them right in the plot?

 

[dbltree]

Paul,
The buck you are waiting for must be a real hog.

Question I am wondering though is aren't you a little worried about
shooting them right in the plot?

Normally I don't hunt food plots, preferring instead to hunt narrow travel corridors leading to them with archery equipment. This time of year however these deer just lay in the timber and NWSG right next to the feed and don't travel so I hope to shoot one buck...big difference then going out there and blazing away at does....

 

[dbltree]

wondering if temperatures have an influence on a deer’s selection

Absolutely! They were hammering the beans and milo last week when it was cold and ground snow covered but when it warmed up slightly to 35 the rye was exposed and they turned on it with a vengeance! Next week it will be bitter cold and the ground snow covered again so if any beans and milo remain they will surely hit it hard again.

Slow nite last night...only 45 deer including a couple that did appear in the milo/soybean portion of the plot. Interesting...they just kind of "slither" under the poly wire now that the fencer is off. Note the tent blind in the soybean stubble on the neighbors place in the background....every day I have been watching deer for an hour (they start coming out at 1:30) before the hunter even walks out to his blind. Having safe secure hidden plots makes a huge difference!

The rye was a busy place once again and I am just having a blast observing and taking pictures

Over the years deer have adapted to my year around food sources and just camp out in the NWSG and hinged tree cover surrounding the food sources once the weather gets bad and food sources become scarce.

The deer rarely even pick their heads up to look around

and just graze furiously on the winter rye

Saw about 15 bucks

with as many as 8 at one time on the rye

They do a little sparring now and then

and every one is an easy target

The tall NWSG keeps them well screened

My friend Rich Baugh aerial seeded winter rye into his corn something farmers do on a large scale so they can pasture cattle on the rye but I need to find out the cost. Overseeding winter rye into standing soybeans and corn just creates an absolutely awesome food source combination that I would dare anyone to find something that could compete!

Any grain crop (corn, soybeans and milo) or root crop (turnips and beets) will eventually be decimated but not rye...it's simply not possible and they will graze it to the dirt and keep returning.

We have snow storm moving in so east winds will keep me out of this plot for a few days and when I return we should have 4-6" of snow and bitter cold temps. I'll be able to observe if deer return to the milo/soybeans or continue to feed on the rye...should be interesting! I've killed a nice buck and my freezer is filed to the brim with does taken early in the season so I'm just having fun taking pictures and observing deer...if a whopper walks out I may pull the trigger but if not I will still have had a blast watching the...winter rye..... :way:

 

[Skully]

Love this post Paul! Your shed hunting season looks to be promising also! :way:

 

[Daver]

Those are great pictures! I would be curious to have a guessing contest on the age of some of those bucks. Paul - do you have a good sense of the age on some of those guys?

 

[dbltree]

Those are great pictures! I would be curious to have a guessing contest on the age of some of those bucks. Paul - do you have a good sense of the age on some of those guys?

The one in the blurry pic I believe is for certain at minimum a 4 1/2 or older buck with the others being 2 1/2 and 3 1/2. Aging is always a guess without positive history but I have learned a lot on this subject from Kip Adams (QDMA Biologist) and the aging articles in Quality Whitetails so I feel I am in the ball park.

5 1/2 and 6 1/2 yr old deer are rare in any neck of the woods so unless I have history or pretty positive body characteristics I am reluctant to put one in that class nor do I see one in those pictures. If I do...you'll see it up close and personal in the Harvest forum...

 

[dbltree]

Now that we have snow again it was interesting watch deer feeding and their choices...they still spent plenty of time in the winter rye

Hours in fact

all of the deer observed either chose rye and clover or beans and milo but not a single deer fed in both???

When the snow was off they fed like crazy solely in the winter rye but now...they spent a great deal of time in the clover as well??

The combination of food sources will keep them here all winter and rye being the very first to green up will help gestating does and winter weary bucks rebuild body reserves that will soon be needed for antler development.

Winter rye...it's not just for hunting season but part of a complete habitat program... :way:

 

[dbltree]

December 29th,2010

This time of year is what it's all about...all the hard work all the past year to attract and hold whitetails on our property and then enjoy hunting them! My friend Walt and I have worked hard on his place for 3 years now and he has established 3 acres of tree plantings, screens, 6 acres of Cave In Rock switchgrass, 3 apple and pear orchards, hybrid oaks, hinged bedding areas and 6 acres of food plots centrally located.

Monday around noon Walt slipped through his Egyptian Wheat screen into his blind to enjoy the fruits of our labors.

Whitetails...everywhere!

These are just a few young bucks he snapped pics of deer foraging in the rye/pea/radish combination

So many deer covered the field by dark it was impossible to count them all!

He was thrilled to see so many deer and so many bucks to boot!

The day is wrong but the time is right as the cam caught deer pouring into the field

Watching deer is a blast and taking pictures fun but...putting one on the wall is the best! Walt picked out a good buck and dropped the hammer on him at 100 yards.

That buck and 50+ other deer were not there just because of rye, but because of multiple food sources that keep them there year around. They live there because of safe sanctuaries, screened fields, hinged bedding areas and 6' tall switchgrass. They weren't on the TV celebrities farm across the fence because....they don't do any of those things.

Use all the tools together to create a year around complete habitat program and in time you too will reap the rewards.... :way:

 

[dbltree]

This just a series of cam pictures that show both the rye/oat/pea/radish combination growth and continued deer usage on various dates. You can see how they used it none stop, both bucks and does and how much they grazed it down in a month!

This mix when combined with red or white clover is one of the few that can literally feed deer year around with one planting making it easy, inexpensive and practical for everyone regardless of budgets or time constraints.

Having used winter rye for decades I don't bother with exclusion cages, grazing is more then obvious even without trail cams but anytime you plant first time crops or compare crops or plant crops in a new location, be sure to set up a wire exclusion cage and stake it down. I tried just setting them on the ground one year but they eventually uprooted them to get at the rye growing inside....

 

[dbltree]

January 12th, 2011

A look at the winter rye/oat/forage pea/forage radish/red clover planting in January without snow cover

The oats are of course dead (appears as the brown stems and leaves) while the winter rye is still green and attractive

Even though planted at 100#'s per acre in most places the forage peas have long ago been devoured but it is possible to find a little Ground Hog Forage radish remnants here and there.

With the snow on it's obvious they are still foraging in the combination of food sources

Evidence of them eating the radish roots now

Still green next to the ground

Some places the oats actually headed out although that would be the stage they least care for them

The brown stems sticking up are the dead oats so at this point the winter rye is what they seek out

Day...

and night (this buck had just shed one side)

and as the snow gets deeper and less forage is available...they keep moving in on even the less palatable plants previously left in front of this cam.

This buck is gleaning what he can from a patch of Alice white clover but the strips in the foreground are either pure winter rye (green/bare areas) or rye/oat/pea/radish strips and they clearly show that the rye has been grubbed clean to the dirt!

The combination planting keeps drawing them back

and will the rest of the winter

and with the first hint of spring the rye will leap to life and provide a great source of feed when winter weary deer need it most

Guess where I'll be doing some shed hunting....

 

[dbltree]

February 1st, 2011

In December I witnessed deer piling into the winter rye combination plots and ignoring all other food sources...so what's going on here? The rye is on the far right and they are not touching it but they are eating the clover and turnips...what's going on???

They have simply eaten it all!

What is left is dead oat stubble

the rye grazed to the dirt

We are sometimes mislead by occasional observations simply because the food source may be gone. Winter rye would be a foot or more tall if ungrazed, so be sure to use an exclusion cage to tell for certain.

Remember this pic? The rye and oats are knee high close to the trail cam but only inches high back further

This is now...even the tall stemmy leftovers are gone now!

They will graze rye all winter only if there is some left to graze of course but in these small plots there is not much left, although that doesn't stop them from trying.

This fawn managed to scare up and uneaten GHFR but for the most part all the other elements of this mix (oats, peas and radish) are gone leaving only the rye and clover to come up in the spring.

When the sun first whispers spring onto the frozen earth...winter rye will be the first to spring to life right when desperate deer need it most. The corn and beans long gone, the wheat not yet awake, the clover and alfalfa picked bare...but rye will be the center of attraction as soon as the frost leaves the ground....

 

[IQDM]

I mix the following:
Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas 20-80#'s per acre (4010 or 6040 field peas will work fine for 1/2 the price)
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre
Plant seeds roughly 1-2" deep, and then cultipack to cover, broadcast clover seed and re-cultipack
Plant fall grains no earlier then the last week of August through mid September, earlier is better when adding peas and clover

So do you plant a total of 297 lbs of seed per acre? or do you cut the seeding rates down since it is in a mix? From the pictures, it looks like you don't have any problems with the seeds out competing eachother....

 

[dbltree]

So do you plant a total of 297 lbs of seed per acre? or do you cut the seeding rates down since it is in a mix? From the pictures, it looks like you don't have any problems with the seeds out competing each other....

I plant usually a little over 200#'s of seed per acre and much of it got 200#'s of nitrogen and 400#'s of 6-24-24 and they ate it all to the dirt...

 

[IQDM]

I plant usually a little over 200#'s of seed per acre and much of it got 200#'s of nitrogen and 400#'s of 6-24-24 and they ate it all to the dirt...

Perfect!... I have been talking to my seed suplier, and he has access to a forage radish that he described to be very similar to your GHFR... does it have to be GHFR or do you think any FR would work? Also, last year I did an August planted mix of Oats, Peas, Soybeans, and Brassicas which worked well for me. What is your thoughts on adding soybeans to your oat-pea-GHFR-w.Rye mix? I know your deer density is higher than mine, but the cerial grains seemed to take a little pressure off the soys until they were ankle high.

 

[dbltree]

does it have to be GHFR or do you think any FR would work?

Forage radish = Daikon radish and there is no difference except for the price, the seed should be under $3 a pound so just use caution because some unscrupulous dealers are attaching fancy names and charging 6 bucks a pound.

It's ALL VNS seed (variety not stated) grown by the same farms in NZ...the seed is the same....the price often is not.

You certainly can add soybeans although they of course will be dead at first frost, otherwise they'll draw like crazy until then...:way:

 

[dbltree]

Just a reminder that if you didn't sow clover with your fall cereals then frost seeding is a great option. Mid March is usually about right in my area but it may be 2 weeks earlier or later depending on where you live. Wait til the ground is freezing at night and thawing during the day and frost seeding will work like a charm!

If you plan to turn the plot under for brassicas in mid summer or for more rye in late summer then an inexpensive red clover is a great option.

If you want to establish a long term patch of white clover then choose a good white clover instead. Remember however to not waste dollars on an expensive mix like Imperial Whitetail clover if you plan to frost seed. That mix contains 33% berseem clover which cannot be frost seeded.

Welter seed has a great selection of clovers both white, red and alsike and you can order by the pound if you need small quantities.

Welter Seed

My favorites are Alice white clover or Alta-Swede red clover but there are of course numerous options to choose from many of which are most likely available at you local co-op....

 

[DH1]

frost seeding clover into cereal grains:

white clover; last fall I ended up trying a mix of Kopu II and Alice with rye and forage radishes, heard many good things about both, here is a link on Kopu II.
http://www.agriview.com/articles/2004/03/12/crop_news/producer01.txt

Welter Seed; I try to buy from my local seed coop, good prices and support the local area, but many times they sell seed VNS. With Welters, you know what your getting, you can select the variety that works for your situation. Not only that, but I've found that they are equal or better on price and the folks are great to work with, they'll hold an order for you to ship when you need it to. Like dbl tree said, they'll work with smaller orders too. So if you put in a variety of small plots (clover, brassica, trefoil) for deer, they turn out to be a great source for seed.

On the forage radishes with the rye last fall, put them in a little late to get the full growth, but the deer still leveled them, it was plain as day. Nice too have a combination that's late season hearty.

 

[Scott]

Welters is awesome, placed my order over the phone and had the seed sitting at my house the next day. Very easy to work with.