Clover

[dbltree]

Re: Clover - September 24th

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> when you spread fertilizer, does it take many weeks or possibly a month or more for it to really sink in and start getting absorbed?
</div></div>

I spread it before we got the "hurricane rains" so it is certainly at "root level" and being absorbed.

I have a trail cam on this plot but deer haven't shown any preference so far. It one of those things any of you could try and see what you think.

Wal-Mart has been marking down fertilizer and small 5000 sq ft. bags were only 4 bucks the other day. Every time I'm in there I walk out with an armload...... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">some claim the "deer can tell" but I am just not sure of course </div></div>

Don't believe anything you hear and...only half of what you see.......... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

[impactarcher]

Re: Clover - September 24th

How much growth should I expect before frost on newly planted Alice white clover (Planted August 15th.)?? My clover is still very tiny and we've had good rains to get them started. STEVE

 

[dbltree]

Re: Clover - September 24th

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steveolson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much growth should I expect before frost on newly planted Alice white clover (Planted August 15th.)?? My clover is still very tiny and we've had good rains to get them started. STEVE </div></div>

Clover should grow well now with cooler weather and plenty of soil moisture, however it is not going to yield much in the way of available forage this fall.

If your counting on a fall food plot from clover alone then a late July planting will give you a little more and adding some berseem clover will help short term also.

I prefer to plant with oats and let the oats be the attraction the first fall and the following spring the clover will come on like gangbusters!

This is 3 week old Alice and oats...

Now...even if we have 2-3 more weeks of growing weather, it's not going to look like this until next year...

Each situation is different, due to soil, nutrient and moisture variations but I'm guessing yours will be roughly 3-5" high by the time it quits growing, but let us know or better yet post a pic later... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[dbltree]

Re: Clover - October 10th

These are some pics comparing Alice and IWC planted Sept.1st and pics comparing late mowing dates.

Alice White clover seedlings planted 9-1-08 with Jerry oats for fall grazing. They have been hammering the oats but the clover is looking mighty tasty as well... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Imperial Whitetail Clover planted the same time, same plot, same fertilizer, same oats...nothing extrodinary thus far...

This shows some of the Berseem Clover in the IWC mix...senseless in a fall or frost seeding because the berseem will die in a few weeks and 33% of this very expensive seed mix goes right down the drain....... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

This is IWC with chicory (and Jerry oats)...lovin' the oats but the chicory...not so much..... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

This is the IWC mix that includes brassicas....I've already shared in the brassica thread that planted early enough to get maximum growth from the brasicas, that they can over power clover.

Planted in late fall...they won't hurt anything but growth isn't sufficient to warrent the cost of the seed mix. You can see they have been murdering the Jerry oats while leaving the Wintergreens untouched.......

My advice on that subject is to plant clover and brassicas seperately and at proper planting times.

This is Alice clover clipped in late September....

Compared to Alice clover clipped in late August......

They are pounding the plot mowed in August because it has had time to regrow and is tender and lush but there is still time enough for the September mowed plot to grow and I'll be watching it (literally) to see how much it gets used.

I'll continue to pots pics that compare Alice and IWC to see how they stack up side by side and how a Sept. 1st type planting will fare as far as growth and usage through out the fall.

One can easily see however that including oats insures usage even though the clover is tiny at this point.

Will late mowing hurt white clover? Will it affect usage this fall?

Stay tuned........ /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[dbltree]

Re: Clover - October 31st

Temps dropped to 25 degrees the third week in October but now are back in the 70's, just right to keep cool seasons like clover green and attractive to deer.

My Alice White Clover is still being hit hard although they are always in the alfalfa right next to the clover plot.

This time of year deer head for high energy sources like corn and acorns but the combination of protein and energy is important and that leads us back to legumes like clover and alfalfa.

Dairymen know the importance of protein and energy and combine rations of alfalfa and cron silage to balance rations. Topping it off with soybean meal to increase protien levels is expensive and this is why agronimists develop alfalfa with the highest protein levels and then methods of storing it that will preserve the protein.

When clover is grazed we don't need to worry about "storage" only that we maintain it at a height that keeps it at "pre-bloom" for highest nutritive value.

This chart shows that while alfalfa is slightly higher in CP and TDN's there isn't that much difference.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> DM CP TDN Ca P
Hay Samples1 Avg2 (Range)3 Avg (Range) Avg (Range) Avg (Range)Avg (Range)

Alfalfa 364 88 (63-95) <span style="color: #FF0000">18.5 (6.1-33.1)</span>61 (37-78)1.25 (.56-2.07).31 (.19-.43)

Clover 45 87 (68-93)<span style="color: #CC0000">14.0 (6.1-21.3)</span>56 (31-66)1.12 (.55-1.93).27 (.09-.50)
</div></div>

Personally I feel that age and genetics have more affect then worrying over slight protein differences in food sources but some seed sources would have us believe otherwise.... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

I'll just keep a running log with updates as to how long the clover lasts as weather turns colder and how usage compares to other food sources because...inquiring minds want to know... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Re: Clover - October 31st

Keep us updated. They have hit my clover LIKE MACHINES the last 2 weeks. Looks like it was just mowed with the brush hog /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[Limb Chicken]

Re: Clover - October 31st

Lots of tracks in the clover/rye... Here is Nov. 2

 

[dbltree]

Re: Clover - October 31st

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Limb Chicken</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lots of tracks in the clover/rye... Here is Nov. 2

</div></div>

Your gonna have an awesome clover patch when that takes off next spring!

Keep us posted next spring and summer with pics on how the clover and rye get along as the rye matures.

You can mow, spray it or just leave it go and clip it later in the summer, lots of easy options with the clover/rye combination. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[SEIowaDeerslayer]

Re: Clover - October 31st

Just an update from today, a group of does that I had seen on the neighbor's cut corn are now using one of my 1/2 acre clover plots as part of their daily routine and we have been getting consistent freezes around Burlington. One of those does took a ride in the Silverado around noon today. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[dbltree]

Re: Clover - Late November

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SEIowaDeerslayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just an update from today, a group of does that I had seen on the neighbor's cut corn are now using one of my 1/2 acre clover plots as part of their daily routine and we have been getting consistent freezes around Burlington. One of those does took a ride in the Silverado around noon today. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

/forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

They had been hitting my clover really hard but now the 12 degree temps have wilted it flat and with tons of other feed including alfalfa that is still standing...it's really hard to say if they are eating it or not.

This is established Alice as of late November:

This is just an example of Sept 1 seeded clover for future reference, not much growth as far as a fall attraction but if planted with oats and rye that's really not a concern.

This is Sept 1 seeded IWC and oats that I'll be comparing next year to Alice clover and alflalfa.

This is Alice seeded right beside the IWC on the same day, same way, same fertlizer

This is some IWC with chicory...they haven't touched the chicory at this point but we'll watch it next year and see how these various plots compare.

Clover is a great, easy to grow high protein food source but how does it stack up to other food sources late in the fall?

We see that the clover is now flattened by the single digit temps but here is...

alfalfa

brassicas

Oats and rye

There is no "one size fits all" food plot...that's what we plant several different food sources that will provide high quality forage year around.

This also gives us a means with which to rotate crops to hold down disease and pests, so make a clover a part of your habitat program but not the only part... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[dbltree]

Re: Clover - Mid December

It's been very cold with temps down to at least 8 degrees many night now and taking a look at the clover plots we can see why they are not the ultimate late season food plot.

These pictures are taken of the same clover/same spots as previously posted and include all types of white clovers including IWC...they all look the same /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Not being used and flat as a pancake...

Now that doesn't mean they won't scratch around in it later on when they get a little more desperate but it's hardly a viable draw for late season hunting.

All of these plots were being hammered all fall, so nothing wrong with clover but it's just not a late season food source compared to alfalfa...

Just another reason why we don't put "all our eggs in one basket" and plan for different food sources to be available at different times.

Check on your own clover plots and share how they look and if they are still attracting deer from December into January. Every situation is different and mine should not be the only examples we have to refer too. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[dbltree]

Re: Clover - January deep freeze

No digging around in the snow to get at clover like they do for rye or even alfalfa...nothing but snow......

I scraped off the snow and there sure isn't much to dig for either...

The alfalfa and...

rye are still green under the snow and still attracting deer...

Frost seeding time isn't that far away!(late Feb/early March) Pickup some inexpensive red clover to frost seed into your previous brassica plots, worn out alfalfa stands or you cereal grains.

Let it grow for a season or till it under to re-plant fall crops...either way you win by having some free nitrogen to till under and some great deer feed in between.

A rye plot is a great place to frost seed some white clover that will make a great source of protein for 3-4 years with out tilling this spring.....don't forget to soil test and get some lime on if needed. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Soil sampling and testing

Using Lime

 

[bjkpharmd]

Re: Clover - January deep freeze

Paul- I know that we are on the same page it seems. If I were to compare all the late season use of any plots compared to the cost, not thinking about other season use or nutrition year-round value, I would hands down plant rye. They ate turnips and such but I always found it easy to grow rye in the fall- they just seemed to love it.

 

[NWBuck]

Re: Clover - January deep freeze

Our clover is getting hit pretty hard, but I think part of the key is variety. It is located right between a bean plot on one side and a corn plot on the other. So many times we watch deer come out in one area, and over the course of an evening, migrate through all 3 plots. The clover is seeing quite a bit of scratching/digging, as the deer and turkeys have cleaned up most of the grain in the corn and bean plots.

NWBuck

 

[Crimson Arrows]

I had a couple quick questions before I go off to buy seed if anyone has any tips.

1) Is this week a good week to frost seed or too early? we have snow in Lee co at the time and wasn't sure if I should wait until it melts more, gets a bit warmer, or snow is gone? Or is snow better?

2) How much white clover per acre? It is going good now but really want to THICKEN it up. Is just white Ok and how much per acre. My notes I took this year off my reading here says about 4-6# per acre?

Thank you!

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> 1) Is this week a good week to frost seed or too early? we have snow in Lee co at the time and wasn't sure if I should wait until it melts more, gets a bit warmer, or snow is gone? Or is snow better?</div></div>


It's plenty early...I prefer late Febuary to early March and little or no snow cover.

Broadcasting clover seed now means it has to lay around for nearly 3 months before germinating and a LOT can happen to it in that time.

Switchgrass is a different story and can be put on anytime now.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2) How much white clover per acre? It is going good now but really want to THICKEN it up. Is just white Ok and how much per acre. My notes I took this year off my reading here says about 4-6# per acre? </div></div>

It won't hurt to add some clover seed to thicken up a plot, several people have done it and have awesome plots after doing so.

4-6#'s should be plenty if adding to an existing plot but if frost seeding a new plot 8 might be better.

I prefer white only for most plots because it is easier to maintain then red clover. If your going to have someone bale it like alfalfa then red is awesome feed also.

If I were you I would sow 4#'s of Alice White Clover and 2-4#'s of chicory which works well with clover. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Thank you Paul! They are all actually existing stands and fairly thick. I will add 6-8 of alice white /acre but should I still add the chicory? Will it affect the plot overall if its all clover now?

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> should I still add the chicory? Will it affect the plot overall if its all clover now?
</div></div>

Chicory is just an option that can provide a little "dry weather " insurance as chicory thrives during dry spells when clover may go dormant.

Alice White Clover is very drought resistant however so I haven't really found chicory to be that beneficial.

Something you might want to try on a small area and see if you think it's worth it or not... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[TMHC]

How y'all doin...I'm new and this is my first post.

I am amazed at the wealth of knowledge contained here and glad I found this thread. I 've learned a lot from reading y'alls discussion.

I have been planning a spring clover/chicory plot and have an acre to work with in a couple months. I'm sure most of the recommendations on here can be applied in Arkansas. I am wanting to get something established and don't want to wait until fall with this plot. I'm planning a mix of Alice, Durana, Berseem clover and oasis chicory. My question is at what rates should I mix these for a 1 acre plot? I have already recieved my soil test results and I will have my lime down in about 2 weeks weather permitting. Also, when I disc in the lime should I disc in my fertilzer at the same time?

I am really impressed with what I have read about the white clovers...Alice and Durana in particular. I would think the Berseem would get a jump on things and help the other two get established. The chicory for a little variety. Can y'all help a clover rookie out?

 

[Crimson Arrows]

For one thing...Doubletree is the one you should check all INFO with as he has forgot more than I will ever know about this stuff. He helped me alot last year and things grew pretty well considering I have very poor soil. I really like ALICE WC as it grew when other varieties did not. I used 4-6# per acre and a HUGE advantage was using Volunteer (generic Select) mid summer which killed the grasses and really helped my clover take off. Planting in spring was tough as i fought grasses/weeds ALL summer but the fall clover/rye planting (I highly recommend) worked great and I am frost seeding soon. The Rye will go away eventually and the clover will be lush. Good luck and welcome to IW!!