Clover

[Mad Trapper]

I am clearing a several acre field that presently has goldenrod it in that I plan in making a destination field. While I will have strips of corn and brassica in it, I plan to put a large part of it in clover. With the warm weather we are having, we have been able to get the area mowed. I will have the lime truck come in and add a ton of lime/acre if the weather stays dry enough to enable him to get into the field. I am laying out the area and plan to have areas of brush (elder berry, plum, speckled alder, norway spruce, etc.) as well as plant some oaks, chestnut and fruit trees. I am trying to decide whether to try to get the clover planted this spring or to wait until fall. I am leaning toward planting the clover with oats as a cover crop this spring. What do you guys think? Was going to primarily use Alice and maybe mix in some Kopu2 and Jumbo Ladino as well as some Berseem. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

Many thanks

 

[LoessHillsArcher]

Some of my fall seedings didn't take well either thanks to the drought so I'll be frost seeding more seed into it in the next few weeks. Like Skip mentions...can't hurt and it's good insurance...:way:

Yup, just got in 12lbs of white clovers from Welter's yesterday... our fall clover seedings got to be about 1/2" tall and then disappeared when it didn't rain for a longgggg time. I have my doubts they come back so bought some "insurance" as you mentioned.

 

[dbltree]

I am clearing a several acre field that presently has goldenrod it in that I plan in making a destination field. While I will have strips of corn and brassica in it, I plan to put a large part of it in clover. With the warm weather we are having, we have been able to get the area mowed. I will have the lime truck come in and add a ton of lime/acre if the weather stays dry enough to enable him to get into the field. I am laying out the area and plan to have areas of brush (elder berry, plum, speckled alder, norway spruce, etc.) as well as plant some oaks, chestnut and fruit trees. I am trying to decide whether to try to get the clover planted this spring or to wait until fall. I am leaning toward planting the clover with oats as a cover crop this spring. What do you guys think? Was going to primarily use Alice and maybe mix in some Kopu2 and Jumbo Ladino as well as some Berseem. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

Many thanks

You can do it this spring, just be aware that spring plantings are often fraught with challenges and problems with wet spring weather and weeds. That said...it's been done successfully for years so not a big deal if you want to give it a shot.

My preferred method is to plant oats and berseem clover this spring, then till that under and plant the rye mix (see cereal grain thread) in late August and add the white clover then.

if you want to give it a shot this spring, go ahead and use the oats and berseem but just add 6-8#'s of white clovers (mix them if you wish) and then clip the oats and weeds off sometime in June. Be sure to clip high to avoid smothering the little clovers.

I also prefer to put 3 ton of ag lime on per acre...it will last longer and save you repeating the process as often and be sure to get P&K down per soil test results...:way:

 

[crs740]

I am planning on planting oats and berseem where I had planted brassicas last fall. I know berseem is prone to dying from a frost. Would it be best to wait until mid-may to plant them? When you till under the oats and berseem for the rye mix, do you spray the plants first or just disc the green plants under?

 

[Mad Trapper]

You can do it this spring, just be aware that spring plantings are often fraught with challenges and problems with wet spring weather and weeds. That said...it's been done successfully for years so not a big deal if you want to give it a shot.

My preferred method is to plant oats and berseem clover this spring, then till that under and plant the rye mix (see cereal grain thread) in late August and add the white clover then.

if you want to give it a shot this spring, go ahead and use the oats and berseem but just add 6-8#'s of white clovers (mix them if you wish) and then clip the oats and weeds off sometime in June. Be sure to clip high to avoid smothering the little clovers.

I also prefer to put 3 ton of ag lime on per acre...it will last longer and save you repeating the process as often and be sure to get P&K down per soil test results...:way:

Paul: I have used your rye mix with great sucess in other areas. As I recall, it does not include white clover, but includes red. Would you just substitute the white for the red? If so, do I need to adjust the amount of white clover used?

Many thank

 

[vrod]

I am planning on planting oats and berseem where I had planted brassicas last fall. I know berseem is prone to dying from a frost. Would it be best to wait until mid-may to plant them? When you till under the oats and berseem for the rye mix, do you spray the plants first or just disc the green plants under?

I wonder the same thing.

 

[dbltree]

I am planning on planting oats and berseem where I had planted brassicas last fall. I know berseem is prone to dying from a frost. Would it be best to wait until mid-may to plant them? When you till under the oats and berseem for the rye mix, do you spray the plants first or just disc the green plants under?

Sheesh...so many ??'s lol...j/k...

You are correct that berseem is not a cold weather clover so depending on where you live I would wait til about your last average frost date. Here it's about May 5th so I would plant about May 1st perhaps.

Paul: I have used your rye mix with great sucess in other areas. As I recall, it does not include white clover, but includes red. Would you just substitute the white for the red? If so, do I need to adjust the amount of white clover used?

I usually just add white clover to the red in the mix but this is optional...you can leave the red out, cut the rate or mix them but if your goal is to establish white clover...use the proper amount...6-8#'s per acre.

As mentioned above do not use berseem clovers in the fall...spring only. Keep in mind also that Whitetail Institute uses 30% berseem on their very expensive clover mix...another reason to avoid the "buck on a bag" seed and buy good quality white clover seed from Welters, DFT or your local seed supply....:way:

 

[crs740]

Sorry about all the questions, but what about tilling it under, do you spray it or disc it after it is mowed down to a couple of inches high?

 

[Bryan95]

Hey paul adding another ? What do you do for white clover if you cant till it in. I was thinking spray, im not sure with what and broadcast then maybe rake it in some but im not sure what do you suggest?

 

[dbltree]

Sorry about all the questions, but what about tilling it under, do you spray it or disc it after it is mowed down to a couple of inches high?

No worries on the ??'s...just funnin' you...

I don't spray it...I just till it under and depending on tillage tools you may need to mow it first to shred it up and make tilling easier.

I just till under white clover but with no til you might have to spray with 2-4D or 2 quarts of gly and 1 quart of crop oil several weeks before planting anything else. It's toughto kill with roundup

 

[dbltree]

Frost seeding clover

Depending on where you live, there is plenty of time to frost seed clover yet but generally when there is consistent freezing at night and thawing during the day. It is that "action" that helps tiny seeds make soil contact and when warm weather begins this spring the seeds will germinate quickly making frost seeding a great way to establish clover with out tillage being involved.

The drought last fall killed many emerged clover seedlings that were planted with the rye combination so I broadcasted a mix of some left over Winter White clover (from SucaSeed) and some Medium red clover...this being more for a cover crop then a long term clover planting.

White clover seed

Red clover seed (treated seed hence the grey color)

I sow 6-8#'s of white or 12-15#'s of red or any combination of the two such as in this case and I set the gate on the bag seeder to just allow seeds to pass thru to prevent over applying the seed. (won't hurt anything but no sense wasting seed)

I over seeded into the heavily grazed winter rye

The soil was just a little "sticky" so i walked it on (when possible do it while soils are froze at first light)

The tiny seeds are apparent on the bare earth

Overseeding into dead brassicas can be problematic because of allelopathic chemicals in the brassica roots that can inhibit tiny seeds from germinating but in this case deer completely wiped out the brassicas

very few root remnants remain

so in this case it should work....where it often doesn't is when the soil surface is covered with dead/uneaten brassica
leaves

if you have some thin areas in last years seeding or some areas you forgot to add clover seed to last fall, get out and get some frost seeding done this month and avoid dealing with wet fields later this spring! :way:

 

[crs740]

Will the alleopathic effects of brassicas prevent berseem clover from germinaitng if the brassicas are disced in and oats are used for a cover crop?

 

[dbltree]

Will the alleopathic effects of brassicas prevent berseem clover from germinaitng if the brassicas are disced in and oats are used for a cover crop?

Generally no because if the ground is tilled there is fresh soil at the surface...I have never had any problems except when frost seeding into dead brassicas.

 

[SWBUCKHNTR]

I am seeding about 3 acres into berseem/oats this april. It is sod now and I am gonna put down some 6-28-28 just wondering where you guys get urs and what you pay?

 

[loneranger]

Looks to me like frost seeding is about over. Spring is HERE! With Summer not far behind. Moisture too will be at a premium,,especially the farther west you go.

 

[dbltree]

I am seeding about 3 acres into berseem/oats this april. It is sod now and I am gonna put down some 6-28-28 just wondering where you guys get urs and what you pay?

I get everything in Keosauqua at Iowa-Missouri Hybrids...Aaron has seed, fertilizer and pel lime...price was around $20 a bag for fertilizer last fall but could be very different now. Ph is 319-293-3114

 

[Crimson Arrows]

I frost seeded heavily during that last winter storm March 4th and had all of it covered with a couple inches of snow. Was at the farm yesterday and noticed it appears that much of it is coming up already and last years seeding is booming.

Is it possible to see it starting to come up only 10 days after frost seeding?

What is the normal time period one should expect to see clover start coming up?

Thanks.

 

[Scott]

I frost seeded heavily during that last winter storm March 4th and had all of it covered with a couple inches of snow. Was at the farm yesterday and noticed it appears that much of it is coming up already and last years seeding is booming.

Is it possible to see it starting to come up only 10 days after frost seeding?

What is the normal time period one should expect to see clover start coming up?

Thanks.

Yep, seeded mine the same day and it's all up.

 

[jerred44]

we have a 2 year old acre of clover, after all this warm weather its really startting to take off, is it ok to spray some weed and grass killer this early or should we wait a bit?

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Looking good Scott! I don't think spraying Select This early would hurt a 2 year old stand but hopefully Paul will chime in.