Clover

[Snooter]

Appreciate the feedback guys. My plot is about 1.25 acres. Let's say I do end up going spring planting with oats for a cover, from what I can gather from previous posts, I'm going with 50-100 #'s of forage oats per acre. With the oats I've got 25#'s of a clover mix to go with it (mix of platinum and jumbo ladino with a couple of red clover types). I'm thinking maybe leaning towards the 50 #'s of oats considering I'm going heavy with the clover seed. Sound reasonable?

Finally, it sounds like I should plan on clipping the oats down somewhere mid-summer and possibly look at a shot of clethodim shortly after that if needed for grasses and 2-4DB for weeds.

 

[Tmayer13]

Appreciate the feedback guys. My plot is about 1.25 acres. Let's say I do end up going spring planting with oats for a cover, from what I can gather from previous posts, I'm going with 50-100 #'s of forage oats per acre. With the oats I've got 25#'s of a clover mix to go with it (mix of platinum and jumbo ladino with a couple of red clover types). I'm thinking maybe leaning towards the 50 #'s of oats considering I'm going heavy with the clover seed. Sound reasonable?

Finally, it sounds like I should plan on clipping the oats down somewhere mid-summer and possibly look at a shot of clethodim shortly after that if needed for grasses and 2-4DB for weeds.

Thats a lot of clover seed for an acre IMO...I would think something more like 15lbs of your mix would be sufficient. With being said you wont really be out much with the heavy seeding other than a little bit of money.
As far as mowing and spraying....
using herbicides to control weeds in clover is definitely not a must...I let most of clover go this year because of drought and i have some really beautiful stands. So here is my suggestion...
Plant your clover via frost seed in Feb/March...come back in and spread your oats as the coil temps warm....then walk away....then depending on your weed situation, control it all with mowing. Once you mow clover it will take over "most" weeds and suppress them on its own...I have taken some pretty ugly clover and made it look like brochure cover stuff just with a mower.
Another thing you could do would be to leave your current plot....come back sometime in september/early oct and spread the whole this with about 125lbs of rye....that will give you a beautiful stand to frost seed your clover into and then you could easily let that go all summer long and let the rye control the weeds for you
Tons of ways to skin this cat...clover gives you tons of options

 

[Bassattackr]

My thoughts are along the same lines as TMayer, spring seeded clover would be my last choice of the 3 options (fall establishment, frost seeding or spring planting). The "problem" with perennial clover is how long it takes to establish compared to its competition. Even increasing the seeding rate I don't think will help much. For spring planted clover, the weed competition is going to be intense.

I like the frost seed + add oats as soon as you can (post frost) later option as well. I've gotten some beautiful stands from frost seeding.

 

[Bassattackr]

Aug 15th, 2021

Converted another section of this 5 acre fallow hay field for a perennial clover planting. Another (perhaps quicker) option for spraying to remove sod forming CSGs is to use a bottom plow. Most farms have a 1 or 2 bottom plow laying around, luckily my neighbor had an old 2 bottom I could use, just needed to dig it out of the weeds!

Photo taken back in June.

Rotary mowed, then bottom plowed 2 weeks previous to let the CSG sit out and bake in the heat, then came back with the disc to slice and clean up this 1.3 acre section. Missed plowing a couple of small areas (can see some CSG in bottom right of photo) but otherwise creates a pretty "clean" slate.

- 100# cereal rye (75# / acre)
- 4# RWW Clover/Chicory Blend (Ladino, Will White, FSG 402 Red & chicory)
- 4# Durana Clover (Approx 6# / acre perennial clover total)
- 80# Calcium Sulfate

Also had some buckwheat laying around I threw on some of the sections with some surviving grass. Next year I will disc and plant a thick stand of millet, buckwheat and sorghum on a couple of small areas to swallow up any CSG survivors

Ever inspired by the "teachings" of Paul Knox, I plan plant an E Wheat screen about 12' off the edge of the field to the left. Creating a nice corridor for feeding turkeys or deer, maybe right along a stand or two I have.. Like this Dbltree "Sweet Spot" funnel..

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Aug 15th, 2021

Converted another section of this 5 acre fallow hay field for a perennial clover planting. Another (perhaps quicker) option for spraying to remove sod forming CSGs is to use a bottom plow. Most farms have a 1 or 2 bottom plow laying around, luckily my neighbor had an old 2 bottom I could use, just needed to dig it out of the weeds!

Photo taken back in June.



Rotary mowed, then bottom plowed 2 weeks previous to let the CSG sit out and bake in the heat, then came back with the disc to slice and clean up this 1.3 acre section. Missed plowing a couple of small areas (can see some CSG in bottom right of photo) but otherwise creates a pretty "clean" slate.

- 100# cereal rye (75# / acre)
- 4# RWW Clover/Chicory Blend (Ladino, Will White, FSG 402 Red & chicory)
- 4# Durana Clover (Approx 6# / acre perennial clover total)
- 80# Calcium Sulfate

Also had some buckwheat laying around I threw on some of the sections with some surviving grass. Next year I will disc and plant a thick stand of millet, buckwheat and sorghum to swallow up any CSG survivors



Ever inspired by the "teachings" of Paul Knox, I plan plant an E Wheat screen about 12' off the edge of the field to the left. Creating a nice corridor for feeding turkeys or deer, maybe right along a stand or two I have.. Like this Dbltree "Sweet Spot" funnel..

You're a brave man plowing! Gives my a headache or hernia just thinking about going back over it... haha.

Looks great though!!

 

[Bassattackr]

I'm always impressed with how well it does, one of the few applications for a bottom plow that works well - eliminating cool season sod forming grasses! One scenario where the "sod forming" property can be used against it. Combine that with flipping it in the heat of the summer and it's in serious trouble.

This was another area where I planted milo, millet and a few sunflowers after bottom plowing a thick fescue stand. Walked the entire acre strip 2 or 3 weeks later (photo below), only found one or two patches of fescue remaining green that I ended up flipping by hand. Just a few patches/edges of the dead grass remain.. You're right IBH1983 - the first pass with the disc after is quite the rodeo..

"

 

[Bobcat]

I have clover fire breaks around my CRP field that are older and have become grassy. I want to try to intercede with imperial Whitetail clover.
I sprayed with Cleth/crop oil last weekend.
My question is do I just interseed the clover or should I also drill Rye with it??
Thanks

 

[Tmayer13]

I have clover fire breaks around my CRP field that are older and have become grassy. I want to try to intercede with imperial Whitetail clover.
I sprayed with Cleth/crop oil last weekend.
My question is do I just interseed the clover or should I also drill Rye with it??
Thanks

If it's already existing and you just want to "thicken" it up, I would say you do not need to add the rye

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[Bassattackr]

Looking for another clover to add to a Winter Wheat / Crimson Clover fall planting to cover the late spring thru summer portion of the gap. I know Dr. Craig Harper has experimented with these mixes some..

Anyone use either of these - Arrowleaf (Blackhawk) or a Medium Red to fill the summer gap? For me, crimson doesn't get browsed much after bloom. Also would be curious to learn more about either of these varieties and when / what their strengths are? Any others I should be looking at?

 

[Tmayer13]

Looking for another clover to add to a Winter Wheat / Crimson Clover fall planting to cover the late spring thru summer portion of the gap. I know Dr. Craig Harper has experimented with these mixes some..

Anyone use either of these - Arrowleaf (Blackhawk) or a Medium Red to fill the summer gap? For me, crimson doesn't get browsed much after bloom. Also would be curious to learn more about either of these varieties and when / what their strengths are? Any others I should be looking at?

So I have and had several different clover plots with several different varieties....here is the one thing that I have learned about clover and what deer like....the whitetail institute clover seems to me to be the best clover out there that is the most sought after....I have never been much of a proponent of "buck on bag" seed but this stuff just seems to be far more superior. On my lease I have 3 clover plots, two of them I did mixes of reds and whites, medium red, Alice white, ladino and jumbo ladino...and one plot in the WI clover....I get FAR more pics on the WI and it is the furthest from the best cover...
I know I am not answering your question exactly, but what I am saying is that make clover simple!
All of this is just my opinion

 

[Bassattackr]

So I have and had several different clover plots with several different varieties....here is the one thing that I have learned about clover and what deer like....the whitetail institute clover seems to me to be the best clover out there that is the most sought after....I have never been much of a proponent of "buck on bag" seed but this stuff just seems to be far more superior. On my lease I have 3 clover plots, two of them I did mixes of reds and whites, medium red, Alice white, ladino and jumbo ladino...and one plot in the WI clover....I get FAR more pics on the WI and it is the furthest from the best cover...
I know I am not answering your question exactly, but what I am saying is that make clover simple!
All of this is just my opinion

Probably because of the Berseem.. The only clover that's more/as desirable than alfalfa from what I'm reading... I'm actually going to experiment with a fall planting in another area, will winterkill but I'm fine with that.

WI Tag:

32.42% Alex Berseem Clover
22.21% Insight Ladino Clover
10.75% Excel Ladino Clover

 

[Tmayer13]

Probably because of the Berseem.. The only clover that's more/as desirable than alfalfa from what I'm reading... I'm actually going to experiment with a fall planting in another area, will winterkill but I'm fine with that.

WI Tag:

32.42% Alex Berseem Clover
22.21% Insight Ladino Clover
10.75% Excel Ladino Clover

Correct but the berseem is an annual, so the plot I planted last fall say is probably only the ladino blends and it truly is a night and day difference

 

[Bassattackr]

FWIW - I have good usage in my RWW Clover/Chicory plots as well, they are about 60% ladino as well..

 

[Sligh1]

Do yourselves a favor & plant some Alice white. Berseem is great as u guys said & annual as u said. Has its place.
red is always part of my planting.

mine is exactly this… or get this when I can take the time to mix it…. Wish list
White:
Alice white
Ladino
Kopu II

annual:
Berseem & crimson or maybe a Balansa.

Red clover & I might add a bit of alsike if wetter ground.

& if wanting to do alfalfa in a mix- leafier variety at 5 -10 lbs to acre in mix. Touch trickier if add alfalfa but doable.

if you want SIMPLE & solid: ladino, red & one other like Alsike or an annual. Minimum 3. 1 has to be white. 1 red & one other ideally for basics. Most purchased blends do offer this. Cost more but they do cover the basics with at least that plus a couple others like above. .

 

[Bassattackr]

Skip (Or anyone) - See much preference in Durana use vs Alice?

I ended up using Durana to water down my RWW clover (post #1224) because my local seed store didn't have Alice. Part of it is going to be plowed down next summer so more of a curiosity question..

Going to plant some Alice, ladino and a red in a more "permanent" area I intend to leave and mow for at least a couple years..

 

[Sligh1]

Splitting hairs. Durana will not have quite the palatability, leaf matter & protein as Alice or ladino. It’s resilient & can tolerate some “rougher conditions”- such as heavy grazing or acidic soils. I like it. Alice white has about the same benefits though Edge to Alice white but really are splitting hairs.

 

[Tmayer13]

Heres a video I made yesterday of establishing clover around my plot

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[Bassattackr]

September 2nd, 2021

Nice carpet of rye coming up on high edge.. Very odd, not seeing much clover sprouts yet. Been almost 3 weeks.. 2 different decent 0.5" rains in that time.. hmm. And two different sources of clover, inoculated.. One local, one BOB.. thought I seeded a touch "heavy" too.. Maybe burnt up in the heat, back to the seed store for some insurance

 

[Bassattackr]

September 5th, 2021

Well looks like it's coming through after all, didn't look closely enough. I always forget how slow perennial clover is to establish..

Just to be safe, overseeded a bit more on the 1.3 acre strip:

- 6# Ladino
- 3# Kenland Red

Kind of pretty now. Enjoyed a sunny morning at the farm.

 

[Sligh1]

Bingo!!! Looks good!! Yep- late summer/fall clover rarely looks like much. I looked at mine yesterday - tiny little plants. Wouldn’t hardly notice if didn’t look close. Great job

For anyone - now is the time to establish…. Right when it starts cooling down. I just seeded some last bits over last few days. It’ll sit until rain…. Cooler temps & rain will getter established & be way ahead of the game next spring. Be one of first things to green up when deer need it.