Clover

[dbltree]

I sowed this Northern Sweet Spot mix last July and it was sorely in need of being clipped when I took this pic on June 20th. The clovers had gone to seed but otherwise it looked healthy enough.

I did not notice much chicory remaining, something I find common to all of my clover/chicory plantings because the clover is too aggressive.

The tall grasses are switchgrass that was already there...not High Sugar ryegrass. The HS ryegrass has not proven to be aggressive or spreading like the common ryegrasses we are used to which is somewhat of a relief as I was concerned about that when I planted it.

I mowed it and set up a trail cam so we'll see how it looks in a few weeks.

Deer are still hitting the Alice white clover hard!

I love white clovers because they are sooo easy to manage and such an inexpensive way to provide season long high quality forage.
Remember those thistles? Gone after a couple mowings...haven't sprayed a drop of herbicide on my Alice clover!

Did I mention that white clover is also awesome habitat for turkey broods? The blossoms attract insects and the clover is just the right height to hide poults but allow the hen to keep an eye out for danger!

So you tried planting your clover this spring, fought the mud to get it in and now the weeds are becoming a menace! Try fall planting with winter rye next time and you can skip all the aggravation!

In this area I am just letting the rye mature and wither away while the white clovesrs prosper!

Nary a weed to be found, no herbicide did I need, no mud did I fight and I fed my deer high quality forage within a few weeks of planting last fall without a break!

This is Alice white clover and Alta Swede Mammouth Red Clover planted with winter rye two years ago and deer are hitting this combination hard this summer!

I've been testing some white clovers for Grassland Oregon/Sucraseed and I guess the proof is in the pudding or so they say...

There are many great white clovers on the market that are available for $3.50 to $5 a pound so at 6#'s per acre it would seem unwise for any landowner to not make white clover a part of their habitat program. Look for a clover that fits your program and soils, one that is drought resistant and is dominate enough to keep weeds at bay yet not so tall and heavy that is difficult to manage.

Alice, KopuII, Durana, Patriot, Barblanca are just a few and with a little testing you can find the right one to fit your needs and help hold whitetails on your property year around... :way:

 

[dbltree]

Here is Sweet Spot High Sugar ryegrass/clover/chicory mix one year after being established.

I have clipped this a couple times and it's looking pretty good!

This is an actual High Sugar Ryegrass clump

I understand that the birdsfoot trefoil is being taken out of the mix do to a shortage of seed which is fine with me. The space is far better off IMO with clovers and chicory. There did seem to be a fair amount of chicory one year later.

Obviously deer seem to love this mix

I can't say it is better or worse then any other clover mix but the high sugar ryegrass seems to be very attractive to deer and there are high quality clovers and chicory in the mix to boot. Sweet Spot is carried at many seed retailers such as Welter Seed so check with your local seed source...

 

[dbltree]

Alice white clover has proven to be pretty dominant and so I don't have much problem with grasses and weeds if I start with a clean slate (kill sod with glyphosate first) The annual clovers however were getting over run with foxtail with all the heavy rain so we sprayed them with 8 ounces of clethodim and 1 quart of crop oil per acre.

Select 2EC, Arrow, Trigger and Clethodim 2EC are just a few of the names clethodim is sold under.

Clethodim is far more effective on grasses then herbicides like Poast and it's so safe to broadleaves that I spray it on our flowerbeds. So far I have never noticed so much as a whimper from the broadleaves and not once has any grasses of any size or age survived.

It usually takes two weeks but the grasses just wither and die and that's the end of it. Be sure that there is plenty of leaf on the grasses, don't mow and spray the next day...allow the grasses to grow enough so that leaves are clearly visable. Clethodim works through contact with the leaf so spraying "stems" would be useless.

Crop oil helps the product stick to the leaf where the product can be absorbed, COC is realtively inexpensive so don't attempt a shortcut. In a bind dish soap will do the trick however...

Always check locally for clethodim to avoid shipping costs but here is a source if you cannot find it in your area. Nannyslayer usually carries some so send him a PM if you need herbicide supplies also.

1 gallon Clethodim

You can mix 2-4DB with clethodim to kill broadeaves but it can reduce the effectiveness of the clethodim so that is something be aware of and you may try some test spraying combined and seperately to see what will work best for you... :way:

 

[dbltree]

I sprayed clethodim on some grasses around flower beds and after only a few days they are starting to die!

I also sprayed a friends clover where some grass was starting to invade

A boomless sprayer works well with no booms bouncing around and far fewer nozzles to plug up!

The clethodim should wipe out the invading grasses for another year!

 

[Nontypcl1]

anyone have any suggestions for controlling yellow nutsedge in clover?

 

[Fishbonker]

anyone have any suggestions for controlling yellow nutsedge in clover?

Goats.

I've been sprying my clover with 2,4-DB and I still have a lot of break through weeds. Maybe I need to up the dose or by a goat.

The 'Bonker

 

[Nontypcl1]

Goats.

I might just have to try that. I hear they clean up multiflora rose pretty well too:grin:

 

[Fishbonker]

Yeah and if you get skunked deer hunting, well, half the world eats goat meat and the other half wants to.

The 'Bonker

 

[dbltree]

A sweet spot for some Sweet Spot!

Obviously one could use any of your favorite clovers in a spot like this but since deer seem to really like the HS ryegrass/clover/chicory mix I thought I would plant this funnel area to it.

Couple things going on here...notice the egyptian wheat along the far right and established shrubs on the left. In between the Sweet Spot and EW is a new shrub planting and along the far right of the EW is still more shrubs planted as cuttings from Big Rock Trees.

This is somewhat of a natural funnel already and "leads" deer to a single runway (thanks to hiinge cut trees blocking multiple runways ) going by a tree stand.

In the past deer often cut thru the switchgrass and avoided the area depending on their "mood" that day so offering them plenting of screening and a nice sweet food source to beckon them in the right direction...proves most helpful.

Back to the subject of High Sugar ryegrass...I plant 80% of the strip to the actual Sweet Spot mix and the other 20% to Sucarseeds pasture mix containing the High Sugar ryegrass and then added my own clovers.

This planting should be just right by fall and perhaps a great spot for a trail cam as well.

Instead of being frustrated by deer wandering at will...combine some food and natural cover to funnel them by you as they travel between bedding/feeding areas...

 

[dbltree]

I sprayed 8 ounces of clethodim and 1 quart of crop oil per acre about 10 days ago and as usual it smoked the grasses!

You can see the yellowed grasses to the right

Didn't have much grass in this clover that was sown with winter rye last fall but it cleaned it up nicely. Even the nasty old fescue along the edge was easily killed and at probably the worst time of year to do so.

A lite does of roundup will clean up clover in the spring but this time of year when clovers are stressed from heat and dry weather I prefer clethodim (sold as Select E-2C or Select Max, Clethodim 2-EC, Arrow, Shadow and a host of other generics)

I mowed previously and allowed the grasses to re-grow so that there is plenty of leaf for the herbicide to stick to and it never fails to work very well.

Clethodim can usually be purchased for 80-90 bucks a gallon and at 8 ounces per acre it will last most plotters a long time. Crop oil is usually less then 20 bucks and it is imperative that it be used or the clethodim will be far less successful.

Large scale testing here in Iowa has proven that clethodim is far more effective that Poast/Poast Plus and I certianly have to agree!

 

[Cowvet]

This has got to be the greatest site on the web. On stop shopping for all your 411 about foodplots etc. I got here searching for info. on switchgrass that I intend to seed this winter. Thanks for the time you put into this DBLTREE. There are alot of people in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia that know about this site now.

My question deals with seeding clover. I have had great luck frost seeding Durana into small grain plots in March. The weeds however are a big problem in the establishment year. I have 2 areas about an acre each that have been "reclaimed" from pines. I have brushhogged and then double sprayed the heavy and I mean heavy fescue sod. It is dead now. The number of stumps and the nature of the fields make any tillage impossible. I intended to broadcast rye at about 100 lbs. around the first of Sept. and then frost seed Patriot clover in March. What do you think would happen if I just broadcast it on with the rye on Sept. 1? I also have a 2.5 acre plot of Durana and Chichory that I just finished mowing today. I would still like to spray it for broadleaves later. What can I use.

 

[dbltree]

This has got to be the greatest site on the web. On stop shopping for all your 411 about foodplots etc. I got here searching for info. on switchgrass that I intend to seed this winter. Thanks for the time you put into this DBLTREE. There are alot of people in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia that know about this site now.

My question deals with seeding clover. I have had great luck frost seeding Durana into small grain plots in March. The weeds however are a big problem in the establishment year. I have 2 areas about an acre each that have been "reclaimed" from pines. I have brushhogged and then double sprayed the heavy and I mean heavy fescue sod. It is dead now. The number of stumps and the nature of the fields make any tillage impossible. I intended to broadcast rye at about 100 lbs. around the first of Sept. and then frost seed Patriot clover in March. What do you think would happen if I just broadcast it on with the rye on Sept. 1? I also have a 2.5 acre plot of Durana and Chichory that I just finished mowing today. I would still like to spray it for broadleaves later. What can I use.

If you get timely rains the clover will probably germinate and do just fine broadcast on un-tilled soil. The problem arises when the tiny seeds germinate then don't have enough moisture to send roots down.

When seeds are firmly covered by even an 1/8" of soil they they are already in a moisture zone (with the exception of extreme drought of course)

I would give it a try because fall planting clover allows it to get a head start on weeds and then the clover can out compete weeds in the spring.

It's tough to find anything safe to spray on both clover and chicory....2-4DB is safe for clovers but will nuke the chicory. Possibly Raptor (check the label in the herbicide thread) but that stuff is like $500 a gallon!

 

[Cowvet]

Thanks for your response. Since I have 2 distinct areas I have thought about doing one each way. They are still close enough and similar enough that it would be a neat experiment. Raptor is the only thing I came up with also. Luckily, I have a cousin that is a Syngenta rep. that can probably call in a few favors and find enough to do about 2 acres. I'll give him a plug and say Fusion works great on grass in clover also. Don't know about the cost.

 

[dbltree]

Thanks for your response. Since I have 2 distinct areas I have thought about doing one each way. They are still close enough and similar enough that it would be a neat experiment. Raptor is the only thing I came up with also. Luckily, I have a cousin that is a Syngenta rep. that can probably call in a few favors and find enough to do about 2 acres. I'll give him a plug and say Fusion works great on grass in clover also. Don't know about the cost.

Let us know how the two plantings do...always something new to learn! :way:

 

[waylonb19]

I have been wondering how tall I should try to have my clover heading into late Oct. and through the winter. Curious if anyone has did any testing on this to find out if the deer prefer it taller during the later months. Just trying to decide if I should mow one more time this yr. or let it go. Anyone have any input on this?

 

[dbltree]

I have been wondering how tall I should try to have my clover heading into late Oct. and through the winter. Curious if anyone has did any testing on this to find out if the deer prefer it taller during the later months. Just trying to decide if I should mow one more time this yr. or let it go. Anyone have any input on this?

I find that deer are largely "opportunistic" and will browse and graze without too much preference to minute detail in fall months.

Given reasonable food sources within their habitat (bedding/living areas) they really aren't that choosey.

If standing soybeans are within a 1/4 mile or so there is no clover likely to compete but otherwise the height of the clover is not a huge factor. They will eat it if it's handy and will til it's gone unless they have other food sources.

I usually mow in late August and that encourages some lush re-growth as September cools down but honestly they would eat it either way. I have also tried fertilizing 1/2 the plot and that didn't seem to make a difference either.

I have surrounded my food sources with safe secure cover in the form of NWSG, shrub and conifer plantings and thick hinge cut areas and deer prefer to stay close to that cover and eat everything and anything I have planted.

The point I am trying to make here is that even if deer show a slight preference depending on height of the clover...who cares? I'm not being sacastic either but pointing out that the cover around your clover plots will dictate if they will stay there and feed not height, variety, fertilizer, etc etc.

Those things will only be a factor if you have a neighbor right across the fence with whom you have to compete...in that case I would be planting something far better then clover....

Clip yours in the next week or so and your clover should be as good as it can be by Oct 1st...:way:

 

[dbltree]

Fall planting tips for establishing white or red clover

For best results plant clover seed 4-6 weeks ahead of your average killing frost date. Frosts rarely kill clovers but cold weather can cause plants to go into dormancy before root reserves are established and may cause unacceptable mortality.

Last fall I sowed some tests plots of annual clovers in very late September and despite frosts and freezing temps 2 weeks later they not only survived but thrived the following spring, so clovers are pretty tough plants.

Sow with cereal grains at 4-6#'s of white clover seed per acre (10-12#'s of red clover or a mix of 2-3 white and 6-8 red), drill or till in the cereals roughly an inch deep, cultipack, broadcast clover seeds and re-cultipack.

If using a drill with large and small seed boxes it's easy to set the proper planting rate and if it has seed packing wheels your done in one pass, if not pull a packer behind if you can.

Seed from places like Welter Seed will come pre-inoculated but if not, purchase a bag and mix it with a slight bit of water or soda to help it stick before planting.

Soil tests should already have been done and fertilizer and lime tilled in before planting seeds but 200-400#' s of 6-24-24 (or something similer) will suffice to get your clover started.

Fall Maintenance

Clip established clovers for the last time about the same time as one would fall plant....4-6 weeks before your average killing frost. Clipping encourages the plants to begin growing and flowering again as the weather cools and the stand will usually go into the hunting season lush and palatable. Clipping also helps control weeds by keeping the clover thick and dominate.

If you find you constantly need to clip your clovers and they are lush and thick...fertilizer should not be needed. If however plants are weak and pale or severely grazed, adding 200-400#'s of 6-24-24 or 8-36-36 will keep them well fed and thriving.

In timbered areas with little or no other food sources, clovers may be hit hard negating the need for clipping and deer may dig through the snow to feed on the tender plants. In areas where ag crops are plentiful whitetails may walk right through clovers to feed on lush stands of alfalfa, standing soybeans, freshly combined corn or a new crop of acorns and for those reasons I would urge landowners not to over emphasis the importance of clover during fall hunting seasons.

I find clovers to be more important as a source of spring and early summer feed sources then for a fall attractant when there is so much other high energy feed available here in Iowa. Across the country landowners will have to test usage and determine how much clover they need in thier habitat program....

 

[waylonb19]

That is kind of what I figured. I mowed today. Figured it would be nice and lush come Oct. :way:

 

[dbltree]

Well..there you have it..."Monster Buck Clover"! :way:

Now if I could just kill that buck and drag em out in a patch of clover I probably could get on some "buck on a bag" advertisement!

Oh well...just your basic white clovers from Grassland Oregon and Alice white clover from Ampac...with a buck in it...

Deer are hitting the white clovers hard right now on three different farms including this one with standing soybeans next to it and alfalfa a few yards away. Good food source to have at least some of on our property year around but no need to spend a fortune on it...any good quality white clover will do, just chose on adapted to your area and soil conditions.

Now if only this buck will saunter out there in broad daylight next month...:way:

 

[scottonbuck]

The deer have my remaining clover mowed down. I disced under majority of it to make way for Brassicas and my Rye, pea, clover mix. The recent rains have jump started the rye. Bring on October