Way I read it is no "High Fence". That pretty much some's it up
If deer can have a way to escape out of a area and roam freely as they wish with no obsticles keeping them from escaping then I consider it free chase.
If they are "pinned" in a area so to speak then I feel that it is not free chase.
If deer can have a way to escape out of a area and roam freely as they wish with no obsticles keeping them from escaping then I consider it free chase.
If they are "pinned" in a area so to speak then I feel that it is not free chase.
J
J Becker
Guest
i dont know what you mean by the real definition but my personal definition is:
Fair Chase is no high fences. No human made or placed baricades to dilibretly direct or steer deer. No Vehicles. Overall... the deer having equal or better odds of surviving than you have of killing him.
Just my opinion...
HunterMan
![157RAtinybuck-thumb[1].gif](http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/157RAtinybuck-thumb[1].gif)
Fair Chase is no high fences. No human made or placed baricades to dilibretly direct or steer deer. No Vehicles. Overall... the deer having equal or better odds of surviving than you have of killing him.
Just my opinion...
HunterMan
NebraskaWhitetail
New Member
blake
Life Member
ReinertsonTaxidermy
Well-Known Member
NOT putting 8 guys on a timber edge and having 8-10 guys pushing the deer right to them. In my opinion the deer has little or no chance for escape which makes it "unfair" chase.
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NOT putting 8 guys on a timber edge and having 8-10 guys pushing the deer right to them. In my opinion the deer has little or no chance for escape which makes it "unfair" chase.
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Using that logic, then how about secluded food plots with deer stands at every entrance and exit spot? Just because you don't like pushing, doesn't mean it isn't fair chase.
NOT putting 8 guys on a timber edge and having 8-10 guys pushing the deer right to them. In my opinion the deer has little or no chance for escape which makes it "unfair" chase.
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Using that logic, then how about secluded food plots with deer stands at every entrance and exit spot? Just because you don't like pushing, doesn't mean it isn't fair chase.
ReinertsonTaxidermy
Well-Known Member
In the food plots the deer still has a choice which way it wants to go, it's not forced. Nobody is pushing that deer into the food plot either. If you put someone at every trail on that foodplot there would be so much human scent around that the deer wouldn't even go there anyway.
dbltree
Super Moderator
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NOT putting 8 guys on a timber edge and having 8-10 guys pushing the deer right to them. In my opinion the deer has little or no chance for escape which makes it "unfair" chase.
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I'm not crazy about it either but somethings are up to the indvidual and their own ethics...or lack of it
Sitting over a clover plot is not much different then sitting over a hay field...the deer still have the option of when (day or night) or if to feed there.
The hunter still must be in the right spot at the right time.
Driven deer have few choices...I've seen them tear fences down trying desperately to escape and then gunned down enmasse. Perfectly legal but not my personal version of fair chase
Having said that I will add that someone who shoots a longbow might look upon my compound as unethical or unfair chase.
Lot's of "gray area" for a person to sort thru and decide for themselves what is fair or not.....
NOT putting 8 guys on a timber edge and having 8-10 guys pushing the deer right to them. In my opinion the deer has little or no chance for escape which makes it "unfair" chase.
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I'm not crazy about it either but somethings are up to the indvidual and their own ethics...or lack of it
Sitting over a clover plot is not much different then sitting over a hay field...the deer still have the option of when (day or night) or if to feed there.
The hunter still must be in the right spot at the right time.
Driven deer have few choices...I've seen them tear fences down trying desperately to escape and then gunned down enmasse. Perfectly legal but not my personal version of fair chase
Having said that I will add that someone who shoots a longbow might look upon my compound as unethical or unfair chase.
Lot's of "gray area" for a person to sort thru and decide for themselves what is fair or not.....
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In the food plots the deer still has a choice which way it wants to go, it's not forced. Nobody is pushing that deer into the food plot either. If you put someone at every trail on that foodplot there would be so much human scent around that the deer wouldn't even go there anyway.
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The deer are forced by their hunger, without interruption they will come to the food plot on a very routine schedule, to the point where you can set your watch. My whole point is, just because you may or may not like shotgun hunting, does not mean it is not fair chase. Personally if I had the means to support several hundred acres for no other purpose other than to hunt it, I could pattern deer to the point of when and where I wanted to harvest them. It all depends on your viewpoint, just don't chastise others who don't agree with you. I hunted Caribou in the far north, these Caribou had never seen humans, so had no reason to fear them, it was almost embarrassing to have these animals walk within a few feet of you with no hesitancy at all, infact several would get curious and walk closer to you, basically just sat still and picked out the ones we wanted to shoot. Was that fair chase?
In the food plots the deer still has a choice which way it wants to go, it's not forced. Nobody is pushing that deer into the food plot either. If you put someone at every trail on that foodplot there would be so much human scent around that the deer wouldn't even go there anyway.
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The deer are forced by their hunger, without interruption they will come to the food plot on a very routine schedule, to the point where you can set your watch. My whole point is, just because you may or may not like shotgun hunting, does not mean it is not fair chase. Personally if I had the means to support several hundred acres for no other purpose other than to hunt it, I could pattern deer to the point of when and where I wanted to harvest them. It all depends on your viewpoint, just don't chastise others who don't agree with you. I hunted Caribou in the far north, these Caribou had never seen humans, so had no reason to fear them, it was almost embarrassing to have these animals walk within a few feet of you with no hesitancy at all, infact several would get curious and walk closer to you, basically just sat still and picked out the ones we wanted to shoot. Was that fair chase?
ReinertsonTaxidermy
Well-Known Member
I don't beleive I chastised anyone, just giving my viewpoint on fair chase like the post asked. This is a touchy subject, but one I feel strongly about and I know not everyone will agree with me.
The bottom line for me is: if there is no high fence and the animal you are hunting has a CHOICE of what to do, it is fair chase. We owe that to the animal to give them a chance to ellude us, that is the thrill of the hunt.
So yes, the caribou hunt was fair chase because those animals had the choice of what to do, they weren't pushed to within feet of you.
The bottom line for me is: if there is no high fence and the animal you are hunting has a CHOICE of what to do, it is fair chase. We owe that to the animal to give them a chance to ellude us, that is the thrill of the hunt.
So yes, the caribou hunt was fair chase because those animals had the choice of what to do, they weren't pushed to within feet of you.
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I don't beleive I chastised anyone, just giving my viewpoint on fair chase like the post asked. This is a touchy subject, but one I feel strongly about and I know not everyone will agree with me.
The bottom line for me is: if there is no high fence and the animal you are hunting has a CHOICE of what to do, it is fair chase. We owe that to the animal to give them a chance to ellude us, that is the thrill of the hunt.
So yes, the caribou hunt was fair chase because those animals had the choice of what to do, they weren't pushed to within feet of you.
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Have you ever gun hunted?
I don't beleive I chastised anyone, just giving my viewpoint on fair chase like the post asked. This is a touchy subject, but one I feel strongly about and I know not everyone will agree with me.
The bottom line for me is: if there is no high fence and the animal you are hunting has a CHOICE of what to do, it is fair chase. We owe that to the animal to give them a chance to ellude us, that is the thrill of the hunt.
So yes, the caribou hunt was fair chase because those animals had the choice of what to do, they weren't pushed to within feet of you.
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Have you ever gun hunted?
shadowpeople
Active Member
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The bottom line for me is: if there is no high fence and the animal you are hunting has a CHOICE of what to do, it is fair chase. We owe that to the animal to give them a chance to ellude us, that is the thrill of the hunt.
So yes, the caribou hunt was fair chase because those animals had the choice of what to do, they weren't pushed to within feet of you.
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In response to this statement I can't say that I agree. Our group maybe has 8-10 guys and the patches of timber we hunt aren't very large (less than 20 acres). The deer sure seemed to elude us more times than I can count on one hand and any shots at deer were much much farther than a few feet, more like a hundred yards or more. We only got 3 deer the whole weekend. I guess if you feel that it wasn't fair chase that is your own opinion.
The bottom line for me is: if there is no high fence and the animal you are hunting has a CHOICE of what to do, it is fair chase. We owe that to the animal to give them a chance to ellude us, that is the thrill of the hunt.
So yes, the caribou hunt was fair chase because those animals had the choice of what to do, they weren't pushed to within feet of you.
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In response to this statement I can't say that I agree. Our group maybe has 8-10 guys and the patches of timber we hunt aren't very large (less than 20 acres). The deer sure seemed to elude us more times than I can count on one hand and any shots at deer were much much farther than a few feet, more like a hundred yards or more. We only got 3 deer the whole weekend. I guess if you feel that it wasn't fair chase that is your own opinion.
ReinertsonTaxidermy
Well-Known Member
I have gun hunted, that is where I got my views on this subject. I hunted with my dads group for 3 years and it was a fine tuned machine. 15-20 people doing calculated deer drives where the only way a deer got though the ambush site was if they were missed. I stopped going because I saw no sport in it. I know some people only have a few days a year to hunt so they drive deer to fill the freezer. Just not my cup of tea. My views seem to be similar to dbltree's post.
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I have gun hunted, that is where I got my views on this subject. I hunted with my dads group for 3 years and it was a fine tuned machine. 15-20 people doing calculated deer drives where the only way a deer got though the ambush site was if they were missed. I stopped going because I saw no sport in it. I know some people only have a few days a year to hunt so they drive deer to fill the freezer. Just not my cup of tea. My views seem to be similar to dbltree's post.
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Then chances are your group was not killing mature bucks. A mature buck will outsmart most deer drives year in and year out. Personally I would rather bow hunt, and do, I shotgun/pistol hunt out of respect for the land owner, however, that being said, I would never consider it to be un-sportsman like or un-fair and consider your opinion very biased. We all would be much better off to support each legal hunting endeavor, instead of getting righteous, as was stated before, I know a long bow shooter that thinks my new Bow Tech bow is unfair to use during bow season, and should be only allowed during the shotgun season.
I have gun hunted, that is where I got my views on this subject. I hunted with my dads group for 3 years and it was a fine tuned machine. 15-20 people doing calculated deer drives where the only way a deer got though the ambush site was if they were missed. I stopped going because I saw no sport in it. I know some people only have a few days a year to hunt so they drive deer to fill the freezer. Just not my cup of tea. My views seem to be similar to dbltree's post.
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Then chances are your group was not killing mature bucks. A mature buck will outsmart most deer drives year in and year out. Personally I would rather bow hunt, and do, I shotgun/pistol hunt out of respect for the land owner, however, that being said, I would never consider it to be un-sportsman like or un-fair and consider your opinion very biased. We all would be much better off to support each legal hunting endeavor, instead of getting righteous, as was stated before, I know a long bow shooter that thinks my new Bow Tech bow is unfair to use during bow season, and should be only allowed during the shotgun season.
dbltree
Super Moderator
The cool thing about this forum is sharing sometimes "thought provoking" ideas and challenging each other to be better sportsmen and ethical hunters.
I read NW's link and I think these words kind of sum up the fact that we all have differing thoughts on fair chase and ethical hunting.
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Within the bounds of legality there may exist hunting practices which some consider as unethical when measured against their own personal code
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I have some very close friends that have driven deer on opening weekend of shotgun season since...forever
I think no less of them or anyone on this site...however I should not be expected to agree with them on what I feel is ethical hunting practice.
I challenge myself to a higher standard then that which is "legal"...but that is a personal choice and I try very hard to pass those high standards on to my son.
I would like to know about those foodplots that bring deer in "like clockwork"
Heck...I can't get em to even show up half the time, let alone at the same time and anywhere near the stand I'm in
I read NW's link and I think these words kind of sum up the fact that we all have differing thoughts on fair chase and ethical hunting.
[ QUOTE ]
Within the bounds of legality there may exist hunting practices which some consider as unethical when measured against their own personal code
[/ QUOTE ]
I have some very close friends that have driven deer on opening weekend of shotgun season since...forever
I think no less of them or anyone on this site...however I should not be expected to agree with them on what I feel is ethical hunting practice.
I challenge myself to a higher standard then that which is "legal"...but that is a personal choice and I try very hard to pass those high standards on to my son.
I would like to know about those foodplots that bring deer in "like clockwork"
Heck...I can't get em to even show up half the time, let alone at the same time and anywhere near the stand I'm in
NebraskaWhitetail
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
The cool thing about this forum is sharing sometimes "thought provoking" ideas and challenging each other to be better sportsmen and ethical hunters.
I read NW's link and I think these words kind of sum up the fact that we all have differing thoughts on fair chase and ethical hunting.
[ QUOTE ]
Within the bounds of legality there may exist hunting practices which some consider as unethical when measured against their own personal code
[/ QUOTE ]
I have some very close friends that have driven deer on opening weekend of shotgun season since...forever
I think no less of them or anyone on this site...however I should not be expected to agree with them on what I feel is ethical hunting practice.
I challenge myself to a higher standard then that which is "legal"...but that is a personal choice and I try very hard to pass those high standards on to my son.
I would like to know about those foodplots that bring deer in "like clockwork"
Heck...I can't get em to even show up half the time, let alone at the same time and anywhere near the stand I'm in
[/ QUOTE ]
Well said, Paul. The regulations are a minimum standard. Above and beyond that, each of us has our own "personal code" of individual hunting practices that we choose to engage in.
Ethics are how you behave when nobody else is watching...
The cool thing about this forum is sharing sometimes "thought provoking" ideas and challenging each other to be better sportsmen and ethical hunters.
I read NW's link and I think these words kind of sum up the fact that we all have differing thoughts on fair chase and ethical hunting.
[ QUOTE ]
Within the bounds of legality there may exist hunting practices which some consider as unethical when measured against their own personal code
[/ QUOTE ]
I have some very close friends that have driven deer on opening weekend of shotgun season since...forever
I think no less of them or anyone on this site...however I should not be expected to agree with them on what I feel is ethical hunting practice.
I challenge myself to a higher standard then that which is "legal"...but that is a personal choice and I try very hard to pass those high standards on to my son.
I would like to know about those foodplots that bring deer in "like clockwork"
Heck...I can't get em to even show up half the time, let alone at the same time and anywhere near the stand I'm in
[/ QUOTE ]
Well said, Paul. The regulations are a minimum standard. Above and beyond that, each of us has our own "personal code" of individual hunting practices that we choose to engage in.
Ethics are how you behave when nobody else is watching...
Willie
PMA Member
Great thoughts and could be debated forever. Here's my take...
A few years back a buddy and I started to hunt the early muzzleloader season. We never harvested any large bucks and most generally tagged out on does. It was fine for us because shotgun season is too crazy for our liking. Well one day a then highschool student, walks up to my buddy and says to him "You guys never shoot any big bucks, you should come hunt shotgun season with us and we'll show you the deer." My buddy laughed and knowing how this kid and his hunting group "drove" deer (literally) responded by saying, "Son when you and I can sit down with our local Conservation officer, and over a cup of coffee, tell him about our individual hunts in exact detail is when I'll respect you as a hunter". Unfortunately the kid didn't get it and to the day his group continues to hunt this way. All I can say is what comes around goes around and they'll have their day! I could never understand how someone could have a buck on the wall of their home or office and live with the everyday reality that he took that deer's life illegaly. I guess the horn means more than the hunt and their conscious isn't genuine.
My $0.02
A few years back a buddy and I started to hunt the early muzzleloader season. We never harvested any large bucks and most generally tagged out on does. It was fine for us because shotgun season is too crazy for our liking. Well one day a then highschool student, walks up to my buddy and says to him "You guys never shoot any big bucks, you should come hunt shotgun season with us and we'll show you the deer." My buddy laughed and knowing how this kid and his hunting group "drove" deer (literally) responded by saying, "Son when you and I can sit down with our local Conservation officer, and over a cup of coffee, tell him about our individual hunts in exact detail is when I'll respect you as a hunter". Unfortunately the kid didn't get it and to the day his group continues to hunt this way. All I can say is what comes around goes around and they'll have their day! I could never understand how someone could have a buck on the wall of their home or office and live with the everyday reality that he took that deer's life illegaly. I guess the horn means more than the hunt and their conscious isn't genuine.
My $0.02
J
J Becker
Guest
I personally really don't believe in driving deer durring shotgun season. While most hunters are ethical... there are still those out there who are not. Its the guys that shoot at anything brown however far it is or how fast it is running. I don't care how good of a shot you think you are or how good your gun is on... you are not going to be able to hit a dinner plate (like you should be able to in order to be ethical in my book) at those even 70+ yard shots with the deer running full speed. Not only is this not safe, it is not ethical. You could hit a deer anywhere, if you even hit it at all. I killed a buck last weekend that had been shot 4 times the day before, which is why I shot him. Now, I'm not talking about the entire shotgun community... just those few bad apples that don't think like we do here...