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Future of CRP

Great discussion! Main point is that government doesn't subsidize other businesses when a person is terrible at investments. (Please don't chat about the govt bailout loans scams during covid)

My thought and Skip kind of brought it up is people that bring in 80 percent+ of income from putting crop in the ground may be eligible for CRP. Highly floodable land, river banks, etc...Something that actually benefits the environment.

Problem I have is investors buying up farm ground and putting 200 acres in CRP at 300 an acre. Or as in a couple people around me, the CRP actually makes their yearly payments! Hell of an investment if you never have to pay for it.

Yes they put the front end money down but so do you in your home. Does government give you money every month for just owning a home?

And if that CRP becomes public land removes people from the land welfare program and makes them pay for their "investment" then I'm all for it.

Some will still buy the ground because they are investors and not hunters. Win win for investors and hunters at that point.

Thanks all for being cordial in the discussion!
CRP could use some tweaks to the program, no doubt. $300/acre as you reference is a rare case. I would guess most are much lower than that and average around $150/acre
There were a few years where the pendulum swung out a little too far and they overshot the mark on what it should pay based on crop rental averages per county. Mine, for example pays $141/acre.

I think CRP should be as similar to what you mention, floodable areas, buffe programs, etc but also HEL ground that really has no business being farmed or high CSR ground. It would eliminate big fields of CRP that should be row crop to begin with.
 
Great discussion! Main point is that government doesn't subsidize other businesses when a person is terrible at investments. (Please don't chat about the govt bailout loans scams during covid)

My thought and Skip kind of brought it up is people that bring in 80 percent+ of income from putting crop in the ground may be eligible for CRP. Highly floodable land, river banks, etc...Something that actually benefits the environment.

Problem I have is investors buying up farm ground and putting 200 acres in CRP at 300 an acre. Or as in a couple people around me, the CRP actually makes their yearly payments! Hell of an investment if you never have to pay for it.

Yes they put the front end money down but so do you in your home. Does government give you money every month for just owning a home?

And if that CRP becomes public land removes people from the land welfare program and makes them pay for their "investment" then I'm all for it.

Some will still buy the ground because they are investors and not hunters. Win win for investors and hunters at that point.

Thanks all for being cordial in the discussion!

I’m going to predict we still have programs such as filter strips, wetland restoration, riparian buffers, & field windbreaks.

Not just for farmers … I think they scale down the program a bit . No public use option (required) it could be optional …

It might only be 5-20 acres per farm in the critical areas . That would not be conducive to allowing hunting on small acre areas…

Just my prediction
 
Ha. You should look into that statement a bit. Government "subsidies" as you call them are broad and plentiful. I wouldn't describe CRP as such, but even if you choose to it is definitely not unique in that regard.
Please enlighten us since you have time to laugh and save me the extra research.

As a guy who owns a company, what handouts do you take?

CRP is a government handout to not do work. Could you survive your investment without the handout? Ground is an investment IF u aren't using it as your main source of income.

But maybe Im just looking at it all wrong and where my tax money goes.
 
CRP is a tough one to define…. One group will say “they paying people not to plant their land”. Which is a fraction of the truth but yes, there’s some truth to that statement.
There’s no business or sector of society without massive government influence, subsidies, regs, etc etc. UNFORTUNATELY.

Tax what u want less of and subsidize what u want more will still pass any economics 101 discussion. The free market of supply & demand impacting prices can still apply.

So…. We spend $1.8 BILLION across the whole country on CRP…. I’m maybe a “8 or 9 out of 10” when it comes to fiscal conservatism…. With that said:
1) $1.8B across the country is a TINY expense. IS IT WORTH IT??????….. here’s some benefits…..
2) it increases commodity prices for farmers by lowering the supply. Is that artificially lowering it? To some extent- sure. IF it’s done on our most vulnerable soils that are lost + it keeps farmers selling commodities: MORE PROFITABLE, there’s VALUE in that, significant.
3) the ECONOMIC value CRP brings in hunting revenue alone… more game from birds to big game (even to fishing with cleaner waters) to whatever….. absolutely positively- that alone makes the program pay for itself in multiples. “Could or should there be other ways or let the free market dictate this?” Possibly…. But there’s zero ? That BILLIONS of hunting expenditures annually ripple through the economy due to CRP. Absolutely positively pays for itself right there alone & then some.
4) water quality & clean up…. Pays for itself again right here. We spend untold billions on pollution, clean up & incalculable amounts in health impacts from water pollution issues
5) top soil loss…. AGAIN this program pays for itself with this one item as well. Iowa for example loses (data to support this) over $1B a year in top soil loss. & that doesn’t include the fertilizer value or the clean up costs that go with it. If Iowa had all of its most vulnerable soil in CRP & kept the best ground out of CRP- this would be best bang for the buck in this state. But $1.8B nationwide & how much soil is saved & built from CRP… pays for itself again.
6) this RESERVES soils for a later date. If we need the production, say during a catastrophe or war or some weather event …. We saved & built soils we later can use. Soils that wash at high rates. Why even Iowas “flat black dirt” - HALF is gone in 150 years. HALF!!!!!!!! By slowing or reversing some of that- we are helping the future generations.
7) the $1.8B spent…. It’s not just “thrown out the window”… it goes into farmers & land owners operating budget….. they pay income taxes on those checks - so gov gets about a 1/3rd back! Then- they can use that pay for farm expenses, float operation, pay employees or buy equipment. All of which keep rippling through economy &
also create more tax revenue back. I fully realize gov spending $ has waste & inefficiencies…. But - $1.8B (small $!!!!) is injected right into the farm economy & keeps moving through economically.
8) none of this accounts for the ecosystem values. The pollination that improves food supply. The beauty of it. The little creatures that thrive & survive due to it. The carbon it sequesters. The fact that it gives a SLICE back to what was vast prairies that have all but been completely removed and destroyed. A land of bare corn & bean monocultures filled with pesticides…. That’s ALL some groups want. I farm- I get it. But a TINY TINY fraction of diversity…. Cmon …. This ain’t a hill to die on. Not a hill that costs $1.8B nation wide & pays for itself 5-10x over if we follow the butterfly effect of economics & value it creates. This is honestly an EASY one vs a gazillion frivolous expenses we MUST eliminate. This ain’t one that should go and I believe that to my conservative core.
 
Please enlighten us since you have time to laugh and save me the extra research.

As a guy who owns a company, what handouts do you take?

CRP is a government handout to not do work. Could you survive your investment without the handout? Ground is an investment IF u aren't using it as your main source of income.

But maybe Im just looking at it all wrong and where my tax money goes.
1.77 billion in CRP payments nation wide

400M in CRP payments in Iowa

Crop insurance subsidies 17 billion

Corporate subsidies about 100 billion depending on what source you look at.

Intel is about to get 8 billion for the chips act. That's 4 years of nation wide CRP payments!

A person could go pages and pages citing examples.

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CRP is less than a drop in the bucket with tons of positives. Hope it sticks around with some tweaks.
 
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