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Gun hunting ethics question......

I have never ran into any bowhunters, ml hunters, coyote hunter, pheasant hunters, that had such disregaurd for other peoples property as this past weekend. I wasn't hunting, just filming a guy (on his own property) and helping another landowner keep people off.

The main statement that I heard this weekend was, "I've hunted this farm for years, your not going to tell me when or where I can hunt." Legally, no, I do not have rights, so all I could do is wait on the landowner to get there and by that time, the 17 man group was gone. That was just the first group.

We called the CO, but sadly he was tied up with other matters at that time.

I am definitly not putting shotgun hunters as a group into this category, I know several groups that do it right, and are good hunters that do everything by the law. But down here, the bad groups outnumber the good groups, and there is not enough law enforcement to keep them from doing it. Hell, most of them wanted to fight over it.

I think bowmakers comment is great. There are bad apples in every group, but when you have that many groups crammed into 2 weeks, you get to see all the bad, and not much of the good. I know of quite a few guys that have had problems with some jerk off bowhunters in the past, so it is not the season, just the people that you deal with.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nannyslayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> But down here, the bad groups outnumber the good groups, and there is not enough law enforcement to keep them from doing it. Hell, most of them wanted to fight over it.</div></div>

Absolutely.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bowmaker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every one certainly has the right to choose what they want to participate in and at what level as long as it is legal. What I don't care for is some of the blanket statements about shotgun seasons and hunters. This fall I have read several stories about these same type of things with bow hunters. I remember one about a teenager shooting his first deer with a bow, a nice buck. The buck ran off onto a neighbors land and the boy and father couldn't follow it that night and decided to wait until morning. The next morning they found where another bow hunter on that property had found the dead deer that night while he was walking out, dressed it, tagged it, and hauled it home. Even after being contacted by several sources, the low life refused to give up the deer. There was another on just this morning about a guy shooting a big buck while on a drive. He field dressed and tagged it and continued on with the drive. Then when he went back to retrieve his deer he found it with the head cut off, with the head and his tag gone. Some people even blamed the hunter, saying it was his own fault because he didn't stop the drive and take the deer back to his truck. Where have we gotten to?

I also read lots of similar stories about bow hunters tracking their bucks and finding them with the heads cut off. There were also stories about trespassing, and hunting from others stands and lots of stolen stands, so there are a lot of disrespectful bow hunters as well.

The biggest difference between bow season and shotgun seasons, as far as ethics, in my opinion is just the numbers and the time frame involved. There are around 40,000 bow hunters spread out all over the state for more than 2 months before gun season. There are about 250,000 gun hunters pushed into 12 days in December, so it is only natural that there are more "JERK" stories during the gun seasons. I am not trying to indite any hunters, either bow or gun hunters, only the jerks and neither group has a exclusive on them. A unethical jerk is an unethical jerk no mater what weapon he chooses to hunt with. He might not be an illegal jerk, but many are, but he certainly is an unethical jerk. </div></div>

No doubt about it, there are bad eggs in every dozen. But honestly I have never really had a problem with any bowhunters in my area blatantly trespassing into the middle of any of our properties to shoot deer. Shotgunning has been another story.

Every bowhunter I know is far more dedicated to the sport and many of them spend countless hours practicing and studying their deer. Which I believe has increased the ethics of these individuals as well. Whereas I dont know a single guy who solely shotgun hunts that scouts their deer, hangs more than one walmart treestand, or is hardly even educated about the animals. Although there might be a select few out there. It also seems to me that it is just an easier sport than bowhunting and everyone can invite their brothers in law to go out on opening day and pump lead all day. Not to say there aren't bowhunters out there that have no clue either, but they don't get as lucky.

Which one would you have a harder time keeping out and dealing with year after year; one DumbA bowhunter or 12 DumbA shotgun hunters?? And which one would you be more worried about ruining your deer hunting on your properties; one trespassing bowhunter who will more than likely not shoot anything, or a group of ignorant leadslingers that will be marching on every square foot and poppin off more shots than vietnam?? 40,000 hunters or 250000 hunters?

I guess I just worry more about the orange army than I do about bowhunters. But then again maybe its just that I know more people who are weekend warriors, than people who are 1 weekend a year warriors. Which is strange considering there are 150000 more of em.. They probably just don't talk about deer hunting as much though. There are some outstanding shotgun groups out there, but those aren't the ones we're talkin about.. They stay low key, like hunters.
 
Some what of an update. I don't gun hunt because I personally enjoy bow hunting and the challenges it brings with it. I was told that first blood it is your deer. If my son had not shot this deer first the person who drove off with it would not of had a chance to get it, because it would have been long gone if not being put down by him first. This guy's son was with him too, nice thing to teach your kid take a deer from someone you are older than. The funny part is the guy that took the deer told his kid "that I saw him running on the side of the hill and dropped him" WOW-what a flat out lie! My boy did tell him he was full of crap and that he's lying- "the deer was lying there not going anywhere and you shot an already downed deer". He said "oh must have been another deer". Talk about clueless. This guy will go home and mount this deer and somehow feel good about it. Lord help us all.
 
Well said Bowmaker.

Before you bowhunters slam all gun hunters, how did you start hunting?
Don't lump all gunhunters togeter, like others have said, there are bad apples in every group, bow, muzz, shotgun, duck.
I've spent the last three evenings in a stand with my daughter trying to fill her youth tag. She has passed several small deer and has had more then her share of bad luck. Like tonight, had 6 deer in front of us but none would come closer then 100yrds. Don't try to tell me that you try harder then she is. I take offense at some of these posts, just cause I don't bow hunt doesn't mean I am some how less of a hunter then you, I choose not to bow hunt. I did before but I enjoy pheasant hunting with friends and family more then bow hunting alone, differant is not always wrong.
I think some of you need to get off your high horse.
 
I started by bowhunting, if thats what you're asking. Always will bowhunt. If its brown its down just isnt my game. No highhorse here.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've spent the last three evenings in a stand </div></div>

So have I, which paints a little different picture then the ethics brought to question in this thread.

We are all hunters, regardless of weapon but...there is sometimes a big difference in the ethics that come in to play with different styles of hunting.

I know some very responsible small groups who hunt safely and with reasonable ethics but those who choose to hunt as an individual are less often called for foul play.

I have observed many larger groups who have not the slightest shred of ethics or morals and sadly they come to represent "shotgun season" to many of us.

"Chasing" deer is perfectly legal but it sure leaves a bad taste and leads to accidents and unethical situations such as mentioned.

Just an unfortunate fact every season that we all have to live with like it or not. It does make me appreciate all ethical hunters no matter the season... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Musky Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well said Bowmaker.

Before you bowhunters slam all gun hunters, how did you start hunting?
Don't lump all gunhunters togeter, like others have said, there are bad apples in every group, bow, muzz, shotgun, duck.
I've spent the last three evenings in a stand with my daughter trying to fill her youth tag. She has passed several small deer and has had more then her share of bad luck. Like tonight, had 6 deer in front of us but none would come closer then 100yrds. Don't try to tell me that you try harder then she is. I take offense at some of these posts, just cause I don't bow hunt doesn't mean I am some how less of a hunter then you, I choose not to bow hunt. I did before but I enjoy pheasant hunting with friends and family more then bow hunting alone, differant is not always wrong.
I think some of you need to get off your high horse. </div></div>

I've spent 30 days this year in a bow stand, but I agree completely with what you just said. It is obvious that shotgun season can sometimes bring out the worst in people, but I think it is ignorant to lump every gun hunter into the 'unethical' category.

Some of what people have said here is true, but the problem isn't with the shotgun season it is with some of the hunters that participate in it. That isn't going to change. All that is getting accomplished here is giving some darn good info for anti-hunters to use.
 
My place down south was bombarded with hunter. I shot my deer early, knowing that there was more than likely going to be trespasser problems. We saw groups with uncased guns driving trucks across property they had no right to be on. I have never been so frustrated, scratch that, pissed in my life!

One group said the owned last to my west and told us they were going to respect my place and just drive across the field area and push theirs! Later, we went to the other side of the farm to find both their trucks parked on the east side of my timber which the pushed to theirs! Guess a man's word just ain't worth anything anymore! Well, I filmed their trucks and plates, and they just may becoming the Trespassing stars of our DVD! Hope it was worth it! Not to mention their uncased guns, on of which appear to be a rifle!

Yet another group actual yelled at us for nicely informing them that they were not to be on the property, and continued on their way. Oh, and that was in front of a 15 yr old kid in their group!

Put it this way, I have a new found hate for drives, and deer hunters. I have never seen some many people go so crazy for deer. Heck they even shot a deer we bumped as we were leaving while still on my ground!!!! Gun season is a joke, and I will be finding ways to stop in next year.... If you know me and no my property and plan to trespass it, beware, there will be spike strips on ever gate!!! Your tires will be flat.....

Want the sad part, I have always enjoyed shotgun season, I will pry never shotgun hunt Iowa again. SO congrats to the a$$es, they have successfully taken gotten another good hunter to stop hunting that season. Next year I will be on patrol, will as much law enforcement as I can round up! WHAT A JOKE!!!!


P.S. I had no trespassing problems during bow season! I am sure their are great gun hunters, but they are far outweighed by the morons who show up! All over stupid deer.............. Seriously? What is wrong with people.
 
This is my third year deer hunting. I hunt mostly public land in Linn County. I don't use a bow, I'm a gun man, for those of you who aren't ex Military like I am, this video should explain why we like our guns so much:
http://www.youtube.com/v/2G551KpNnA0

I don't party hunt, I prefer a solitary, sniper shot. I also don't care about antlers, and I guess i'm lucky that way, because it seems like that drives men crazy. I just want to shoot does, i'm in it to enjoy a good hunt and because I love to eat deer meat.

Gun season 1 is so short, Gun season 2 has too many people. There's no deer where I can hunt, and plenty of deer where I can't hunt. I can certainly see why it gets so intense and brings out the worst in people. I bought a muzzle loader last year, so that I could spend more time out in the field, increase my chances of being successful, but I wish I could use my 12 gauge (I call her betty) instead. Using the muzzy just feels like cheating on my betty. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

I know im a rookie, and I can see that there has been alot of work put into trying to make the hunting seasons work for everyone.
 
Bunch of "looters"...no, bunch of losers. I have been Shotgun hunting in Ringold County this week and have run accross 12-15 drivers who do not have any respect for deer hunting or others persons privately owned land. I witnessed them firing in all directions having no idea what ethical deer hunting is all about. They have a complete disregard for the owner of the property as they "drive" from one property to the other tresspassing. They believe they own all the property in the county. From their mannerisms, it appears the alchohol flows all day long. I know I wouldnt take part in this activity.

Shotgun hunting for me in Iowa is over. What a Joke!
 
honestly everyone here has a point and everyone else knows that.... 50,000 bow hunters in iowa spread over almost 3 months compare to 250,000 gun hunters jammed into 12 days. idk what causes ppl to do the things they do. just like every other season or type of hunting you have the bad groups but when your talking iowa shotgun for whitetails its by far the most popular and one of the easier things for amateurs to pick up on but the ones with no ethics ruin it for everyone. everyone knows what ethics and respect means but during those few weeks alot of ppl just throw it out the door just for some damn deer like come on is it worth killing someone or being killed
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Huntin' Fool</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bunch of "looters"...no, bunch of losers. I have been Shotgun hunting in Ringold County this week and have run accross 12-15 drivers who do not have any respect for deer hunting or others persons privately owned land. I witnessed them firing in all directions having no idea what ethical deer hunting is all about. They have a complete disregard for the owner of the property as they "drive" from one property to the other tresspassing. They believe they own all the property in the county. From their mannerisms, it appears the alchohol flows all day long. I know I wouldnt take part in this activity.

Shotgun hunting for me in Iowa is over. What a Joke!


</div></div>


Bet some where driving white chevy's!!!

And a gray dodge, oh, and one red chevy too!!!!
 
I saw a 8 point buck down south that had broken off the right half of his rack. I didn't take a shot at him as it was November Antlerless. I talked to one of the locals about it and he said something like "if the other antler got blown off then he wouldnt legally be an antlered deer".

Since my truck is cold when I leave, I drive with my overalls on till it warms up and I pull over just before I hit the main highway and strip down to just my normal cloths. I was parked next to the highway, and the same guy comes by in his truck and stops and talks to me. They ask where I had been hunting. I told them at the public land, and he asked where I was parked. Its in a spot that you can't see from the road. He said "up top" and I said "yes". They then lectured me about not trespassing, acting if I was going somewhere else. Went on about some other guy that likes to hunt everywhere. The guy he was with I had talked to last year and got permission to hunt his land, he didn't remember me. I didn't hunt his land this year, if I intended to I would have asked for permission for this year.

I dont trespass. I might get lost occasionally when out in 200 acres where the shape of the land is irregular and fences or posts are nowhere to be seen, but I don't deliberatly trespass.

Getting a lecture from a guy who was out spotlighting with his buddy having a handgun in his bib pocket was pretty disturbing.

I think they didn't like that I was from out of town hunting their public land.
 
yes, i dont believe in giving people permission to hunt on ground that i dont own or rent myself, especially to out of staters.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: big+tall+mass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes, i dont believe in giving people permission to hunt on ground that i dont own or rent myself, especially to out of staters. </div></div>

Heard you guys had alot of fun with some people this weekend.
 
put in some long hours in the timber and have been through this with gun hunting before!!! now i stick to the bow and when it comes time for gun season... i head back into the corn and goose hunt! hang em low
 
i to quit shotguning deer, for these exact reasons. i talked to some land owners on monday about hunting late muzzy, and obtained permission from some , they called the local co's on game in fractions, called sheriffs for hunters trespassing, NO responce!its like the officers want these once a yr warriors to thin our deer out , then wait and fine us for tagging our game in the wrong spot!dont get it. not saying all hunters are bad , but when it comes to shotguning(DEER). some havent seen there shotguns since last December! It ends up being a group party, instead of traditional party hunting, that ruins it for the rest that hunt all yr long, turkeys, bow, uplandgame, ect. my dad lives in the country, and you wouldnt beleive what we see.A big group of hunters walk a sqare mile next to my dads, his cousin owns the farm, posted like crazy, but its in the middle of the section where they need blockers, stop and ask,--HECK NO , LETS DRIVE 20 TRUCKS ACROSS THE PROPERTY , DROP THEM OFF, MAKE RUTS TO WHO LAID THE RAIL, did they ever think a family memeber might be there hunting?call the sheriff, , no show,to busy, its time for ALL LAND OWNERS TO CARRY A CAMERA IN THERE TRUCKS , AND START TAKING PICS OF LIC PLATES , ADD EVERY OTHER DOORKNOB THAT VIOLATES YOUR PERSONAL BELONGINGS, OR VIOLATES GAME LAWS.That just might curb there appitite!
 
Its much easier for CO's to chase the simple violation here or there than actually attack the core problem.I don't think they get any benefit out of stopping trespassers and as scarce as they are its very unlikely they can respond to the volume with this many people in the field.
The DNR and the state just need to put their foot down and enforce the laws without the BS of "i didn't know where their property was" etc.If their budgets could be bolstered by doing so I'm sure they would be more than willing to aggressively prosecute.
I believe there is truth to the idea that they want the slaughter to happen as they have no easy means other than that to control the population.
If I had a substantial tract of property I probably would lease the hunting rights out if I wasn't a hunter myself.That way I can control who and how many people are trouncing around my property.As a hunter I don't like it but I can't blame them for doing so.I think alot of the time that is why they lease.I don't think the money is that much of a factor,its just a nice bonus.
 
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