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HR 43 and 44

I agree with you on expanding the coon season. They cause just the same amount of crop damage if not more than deer, it's just deer get blamed. Although I'm not sure if making the season year round is going to accomplish a lot. Trappers and coon hunters aren't gonna wanna kill coons if they're not primed, but what I find bad is that you need a furharvester license just to shoot a coon. I get why you need one to sell the fur but it's also just a varmint. Many states you can shoot them year round with any license but here we are preserving something that provides very little for the ecosystem it lives in.
 
Thats why they need a bounty. Gopher feet can be turned in for a bounty, why not coon. 5$ a coon and people would thin them out. They breed like rats anyway. Add prime fur price and no license and it would be more lucrative than shed hunting.
 
I'm just playing Devil's advocate obviously but does it not make sense in a state where things are apparently so fragile as it would seem they are to an outside reader like myself.

As an outsider looking in, if I were to make an assumption about populations etc based solely on the responses of some, then things are teetering on the brink of disaster there.

Unfortunately, Kaare, it is mostly only a doom and gloom crowd that you are responding to. Biologically speaking, it is not fragile, nor is it anywhere near teetering on the brink of disaster.

Fragile? It is too bad that you have read that in here. It is laughable to me when I read that when we are talking about the deer resource in Iowa. Pheasants maybe, maybe some other resources too, but whitetail deer? The only thing all of these worries when talking whitetails is the "big buck" resource, and competition. The whitetail resource in Iowa is far from being a fragile resource. Human interference has historically been the only threat, and other threats, have not. High populations make all other threats worse. Human hunting interference only helps this concern. Human interference and lower populations help those concerns, not hurt them.

Teetering on disaster? We harvested more deer with fewer tags in the 2014 season than in the 2013 season. We have seen habitat destruction for over 100 years but saw whitetail populations do nothing but grow until tags and hunter numbers grew. Even less habitat has little to do with the spread of the whitetail population. We proved that in the late 90s. Only hunting and more tags slowed the population growth. With that said, I am not promoting a lower deer population, but to those who say fragile or disaster? Nope.
 
Unfortunately, Kaare, it is mostly only a doom and gloom crowd that you are responding to. Biologically speaking, it is not fragile, nor is it anywhere near teetering on the brink of disaster.

Fragile? It is too bad that you have read that in here. It is laughable to me when I read that when we are talking about the deer resource in Iowa. Pheasants maybe, maybe some other resources too, but whitetail deer? The only thing all of these worries when talking whitetails is the "big buck" resource, and competition. The whitetail resource in Iowa is far from being a fragile resource. Human interference has historically been the only threat, and other threats, have not. High populations make all other threats worse. Human hunting interference only helps this concern. Human interference and lower populations help those concerns, not hurt them.

Teetering on disaster? We harvested more deer with fewer tags in the 2014 season than in the 2013 season. We have seen habitat destruction for over 100 years but saw whitetail populations do nothing but grow until tags and hunter numbers grew. Even less habitat has little to do with the spread of the whitetail population. We proved that in the late 90s. Only hunting and more tags slowed the population growth. With that said, I am not promoting a lower deer population, but to those who say fragile or disaster? Nope.

I guess this is a matter of perspective and opinions may vary, and I really am not interested in getting into an on-line argument over the meaning and nuances of words and phrases. But I too see the Iowa deer herd as potentially fragile.

I cannot count the number of Iowa hunters that I have spoken with and/or read their thoughts on sites like this that over the past 2-4 years have shared their disappointment and discouragement at the dramatic reduction in deer #'s AND quality in the form of mature bucks. IMO, apart from a significant EHD factor in 2012 and 2013, the main driver in the "fragile" state of the Iowa herd has been regulations. Regulations that allowed and even encouraged harvest totals well beyond what could be sustained year to year without seriously degrading the quantity and quality of the deer herd.

Unless you are fortunate enough to hunt in an area that is privately held, well managed and large enough to buffer against adjacent harvest patterns...I think you more than likely just watched "your" deer herd go down by 50%-75%, or more, in the last 2-5 years. (Granted, I am of the belief that the population did need to drop from where it was 5-8 years ago. BUT, IMO it did not need to drop anywhere near the level it did in huge parts of this state.)

I guess I don't see myself as a "doom and gloomer", but as someone that tells it like it is. And by any meaningful measure that I can think of, our herd is nowhere near where it ought to be in probably 80%+ of the state...unless you are a "kill 'em all" farmer or insurance company rep.

Who knows, maybe fragile is the wrong word...but if it is, I would be curious to know what description you would provide. Is the herd healthy, acceptable, over-populated, etc, in your mind? Are we having a disagreement over semantics or do you see things as "good to go" at this time?
 
Unfortunately, Kaare, it is mostly only a doom and gloom crowd that you are responding to. Biologically speaking, it is not fragile, nor is it anywhere near teetering on the brink of disaster.

Fragile? It is too bad that you have read that in here. It is laughable to me when I read that when we are talking about the deer resource in Iowa. Pheasants maybe, maybe some other resources too, but whitetail deer? The only thing all of these worries when talking whitetails is the "big buck" resource, and competition. The whitetail resource in Iowa is far from being a fragile resource. Human interference has historically been the only threat, and other threats, have not. High populations make all other threats worse. Human hunting interference only helps this concern. Human interference and lower populations help those concerns, not hurt them.

Teetering on disaster? We harvested more deer with fewer tags in the 2014 season than in the 2013 season. We have seen habitat destruction for over 100 years but saw whitetail populations do nothing but grow until tags and hunter numbers grew. Even less habitat has little to do with the spread of the whitetail population. We proved that in the late 90s. Only hunting and more tags slowed the population growth. With that said, I am not promoting a lower deer population, but to those who say fragile or disaster? Nope.


- You attend any of the meetings the DNR put across the state last year? Vast majority were folks expressing their feelings, in areas with exceptionally low deer #'s, very few deer sightings period & pleading with the DNR to do away with the late antlerless season. Why do you think the season went away? Do you think that was an easy thing to happen? Of course not, it went away because masses of hunters, across the state saw the hunting deteriorate at a rapid rate. SIMPLE & SHORT ARGUMENT - there had to be EXTREME FORCES to win a fight against Farm Bureau to get rid of late antlerless and change our path. The ONLY way that happened was from masses of grass roots hunters voicing outrage at our direction and current circumstances.

-We can all look at our deer herd from the scope of the block or 2 we hunt. I am fortunate enough to be able to travel the state and see the landscape from the "lots of deer" areas to "deer deserts" and I absolutely will claim there's vast (MAJORITY) of the state where deer #'s have hit extreme lows. Many of my friends that hunt in areas like the ag lands around Waterloo, Northwest Iowa, Mason City area, Forest City, etc- almost unanimously said "dude, we got hit hard, it's very tough hunting" in some form of that (kinda like what you hear from pheasant hunters). I hunt pockets with "high deer numbers", I hunt medium population areas & I walk a lot of buddies land that is "pretty low" (as in, it could hold & support 5-7 times the amount of deer if I had to assess based on my knowledge, not advocating it should be there but it easily could). That "pretty low or not really worth hunting sentiment" pretty common in TWO THIRD'S THE STATE. If you're stuck in a county with 50% timber, great, I'm sure you see plenty, but if you're in one of many counties (majority) with 2% timber, I bet you have a different perspective on deer #'s and how close we are to screwing things up. (and screwing things up can mean anything in the spectrum of: having very few deer to hunt - all the way to simply ruining the age structure, etc).

-How a state with 5-7% timber & tens of thousands of acres of CRP habitat being taken out and put into row crops isn't fragile - I don't know a better definition I guess? I guarantee you, frigin bet the farm, no one 20-30 years ago thought PHEASANT HUNTING had any major threats. Bet they'd say "what, those things are everywhere, it's a tourism craze, it's the definition of Iowa - great pheasant hunting"..... In 20 years or less (I'd say it's been bad for at least 10) for a variety of reasons pheasants aren't even thought of for a great recreation in Iowa. Kinda like iowa as a destination boating & skiing location- not really on the map (ok, maybe never was for that one). I own farms here and my love of pheasant hunting would create a trip to SD or ND where the hunting is great. Pheasants and other examples are impacted for some different reasons, sure, SOME. But, a lot revolves around our changing habitat, attention put on those animals, dollars involved, etc (the list is vast) - pheasants can drop off the map in a decade. For some similar reasons or different, why we don't think, at a MINIMUM, our state couldn't mirror Michigan's deer, Missouri's, Minnesota, Illinois, etc or be worse, I don't get how anyone couldn't see we could easily see our hunting go down the tubes with a few bad regs......

****Where we define "down the tubes" or "FRAGILE" (results of being fragile) is where I think we fundamentally disagree (150's sentiment above).... I do actually, like I expressed earlier, think we have those vast areas that have been trashed, shot to piss and made hunting "pretty poor in general" (kinda like pheasants and why folks quit hunting them). Then, we have IOWA now..... A REPUTATION as a shining example of common sense management that has "good hunting or great hunting" in many areas of the state (yes, concentrated and the shows on TV show them on the best places & farms that exist in the state, not really a good representation but whatever). We have a reputation for a good balanced age structure, guys who pass bucks to get to maturity and a "good chance at a mature buck". That's rightfully how I and many others view Iowa (A HECK OF A LOT BETTER THAN SURROUNDING STATES!!!). Why folks from surrounding states flock here and why we have a waiting list, 3-4 years long to bowhunt here (vs going there is over the counter but vast amounts of them want to leave to come here). We are 1, 2, 3 regulation changes away (whatever and depends what they are) from being the exact same as Missouri, Michigan, Minnesota, etc. - crap (IMHO). (PUT YOUR NAME AS "150" on a MI website - you'd be the guy who folks would think is hunting for a Sasquatch there cause they are almost like a myth). FRAGILE.... You do ONE thing - you put gun season Nov 15 here, this place would "go down the tubes" for all that Iowa stands for, guaran-frigin-tee it. You put 30,000 more guys out during archery season with crossbows (making this up), add 3 more weeks to our deer season, create all these new weaponed seasons, WHATEVER- all these put a lot at stake on our state's resource and I've seen the results living in those situations in other states and they are a joke. Places like Canada can get away with anything because so few people live and hunt there. Iowa is different, every block here gets "continuous heavy pressure all season" to varying degrees but I'd venture most on here would agree there is no area lacking substantial pressure in iowa. IF We ruin it here, I mean, maybe guys - where do you go? Maybe run across down to Kansas or up to Canada BUT, I mean, I've been through all the other states like: MI, NE, IL, etc- I've spent years there- Ive seen what happens from regs, politicians, special interests, $, etc. If we ruin this place, keep messing with the regs, you will wake up 1 year or 1 decade (who knows) and put deer & pheasants in the same category, the "man, it used to be good here, what the heck happened???!?!!??!" It can happen over night & don't believe anyone who says it can't! Don't let it happen, don't continue to mess with our regs. Defend Iowa, keep Iowa Iowa by the definition we have now because it is fragile.
 
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I guess this is a matter of perspective and opinions may vary, and I really am not interested in getting into an on-line argument over the meaning and nuances of words and phrases. But I too see the Iowa deer herd as potentially fragile.

I cannot count the number of Iowa hunters that I have spoken with and/or read their thoughts on sites like this that over the past 2-4 years have shared their disappointment and discouragement at the dramatic reduction in deer #'s AND quality in the form of mature bucks. IMO, apart from a significant EHD factor in 2012 and 2013, the main driver in the "fragile" state of the Iowa herd has been regulations. Regulations that allowed and even encouraged harvest totals well beyond what could be sustained year to year without seriously degrading the quantity and quality of the deer herd.

Unless you are fortunate enough to hunt in an area that is privately held, well managed and large enough to buffer against adjacent harvest patterns...I think you more than likely just watched "your" deer herd go down by 50%-75%, or more, in the last 2-5 years. (Granted, I am of the belief that the population did need to drop from where it was 5-8 years ago. BUT, IMO it did not need to drop anywhere near the level it did in huge parts of this state.)

I guess I don't see myself as a "doom and gloomer", but as someone that tells it like it is. And by any meaningful measure that I can think of, our herd is nowhere near where it ought to be in probably 80%+ of the state...unless you are a "kill 'em all" farmer or insurance company rep.

Who knows, maybe fragile is the wrong word...but if it is, I would be curious to know what description you would provide. Is the herd healthy, acceptable, over-populated, etc, in your mind? Are we having a disagreement over semantics or do you see things as "good to go" at this time?

Daver - I don't care to get into the on line argument either. I do admit again that some people's definition of "fragile" or "delicate" makes me laugh when we are talking about the whitetail resource in the Iowa environment. That is where I am getting hung up. I just do not see it that way. History has and continues to prove that. That is just my opinion. The whitetail resource in the Iowa environment is a hardy one. When you hint and mention it might be the wrong word, I do think it is.

I'll answer your last paragraph questions. Is the herd healthy? In my opinion, yes. Acceptable? If you are asking about health, yes. Overpopulated? Far from it. I will add that it is far from being underpopulated. The population is probably higher today then it was for 90-95% of the 20th century. Does that mean it is where it should be in today's society, opinions will vary. I am one of those who think the population reduction efforts worked but that we need to slow it down (and the DNR and we have done that).

If we say regulations make the resource fragile, our society would not let it get to that point. We proved that unregulated hunting could all but wipe out the resource. We are its biggest real threat, far ahead of Mother Nature or other threats.

Daver - Thank you for your respectful reply.
 
Interesting little tid bit here, the routes that are driven every year to get a head count on the deer population were actually an after thought. The routes were set up to count 'coons to predict the fur harvest. Since then the routes have changed to more deer friendly areas instead of creek bottoms. The routes may still be published somewhere.
 
Once again, just sounds like we'll get hung up on: 1) how you want to define what Iowa is OR 2) how it could be with some bad regulations: "fragile", "unbalanced", "not worth hunting" (like what happened to pheasants), "nothing compared to what it used to be", extreme lows in population, ERRATIC (short term and long term - our population in iowa has had huge peaks and valleys over the last 100 years), etc, etc. Pretty broad spectrum that could describe our resource & threats- however you want to define it.

Though you might want to hold tight that Iowa's resource couldn't be drastically changed in a short period of time - I guess it's obvious we'll just disagree on that and I obviously hold a 100% different view from yours, which is fine. To the rest that see Iowa as something we need to defend, be ready the next legislative session as the bombardments are not going to end. I actually think deer hunting is going to get better (since we removed some seasons, etc) and that's going to create even more Bills, special interest pushes, new seasons, etc and could go right back down the wrong path. At least from what I saw at the DNR meetings, I'm glad most the state's hunters now see what's going on - our eyes from the "everyday guy" really got opened the last 5 years IMO. Keep on it guys.
 
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Broken record, ok, it comes from passion though! ;)
I was reading this article a bit ago while waiting at the doctor for our baby appt.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/artic...need-to-know-about-the-national-deer-alliance

I will keep my dues to IBA but interesting how things are organizing across the country to come up with a united voice to fight against all the threats to deer (Not meant to be a JAB - but threats some don't think exist ;) ). One quote from the article....

"A combination of aggressive herd management and disease, including two consecutive summers of devastating EHD outbreaks, has cut harvests by half since the mid 1990s in some of the country's top states" It just got me further thinking how fast our deer landscape and resource can change. Those are likely in states with tons of cover (which has to be the case.... as in - more cover than Iowa for sure as we have some of the lowest amount of the country). HALF the # for deer harvests in many states. It also really reinforced how powerful Farm Bureau, Special Interests and all these political pimps with $ in mind & their political relationships can shape a deer herd. Huge power and threats in any state. Just really more evidence that even reinforced my thinking that was pretty ingrained obviously. My $, time & energy will be with the IBA (for sure IBA but will look into this organization as well) but it's interesting how this trend has actually rippled through the whole country and even folks in other states and across the country are "waking up" and organizing to all the threats and damage that has and can occur anywhere to our resource.
 
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I was reading this article a bit ago while waiting at the doctor for our baby appt.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/artic...need-to-know-about-the-national-deer-alliance

I will keep my dues to IBA but interesting how things are organizing across the country to come up with a united voice to fight against all the threats to deer (yes, not to JAB - but threats some don't think exist ;) ). One quote that I think is right from the article....

"A combination of aggressive herd management and disease, including two consecutive summers of devastating EHD outbreaks, has cut harvests by half since the mid 1990s in some of the country's top states" It just got me thinking how fast our deer landscape and resource can change. Those are likely in states with tons of cover (which has to be the case as in - more cover than Iowa for example). HALF for deer harvests in many states. It also really reinforced how powerful Farm Bureau, Special Interests and all these political pimps with $ in mind & their political relationships can shape a deer herd. Huge power and threats in any state. Just really more evidence that even reinforced my thinking that was pretty ingrained. My $, time & energy will be with the IBA but it's interesting how this trend has actually rippled through the whole country and even folks in other states and across the country are "waking up" and organizing to all the threats and damage that has and can occur anywhere to our resource.

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I shot my first deer with the bow in 6th grade with a draw weight of 35 pounds. I do not think there is much need for youth to have cross bows
 
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