Buck Hollow Sporting Goods - click or touch to visit their website Midwest Habitat Company

HSB 764 Discussion

Thanks for the responses….just having that words “physically reside” was my concern…
Dbltree
Good point, will the time from 30 -180 days really make a difference. I have read Mark Drury is from St Louis area and claims resident status in Iowa to hunt his farm. I’m sure he is doing it by the letter of Iowa law. Will that timeframe really matter?? I’m not really up on all the in’s and out’s of state residencies, but why would someone be switching back and forth throughout the year?? I would think I could become an Iowa resident… Iowa driver licenses, Iowa voting, Iowa taxes, etc and still have a second home in Michigan, Texas, or any state. I'm sure many Iowa residents have homes, cabins, beach houses, whatever in different states and have Iowa resident hunting and fishing licenses...
 
at this point registering to vote alleviates the need to physically reside in the state for 30 days prior, however, you need a drivers license to buy a tag, and i believe you need to prove 30 days residency when you buy your drivers license. truthfully, if they made the laws more strict around getting your drivers license, it would be way harder to exploit this. here is the kicker, once you have a drivers license, you then hve to call DNR and register as a residnt, when you do this, they can see plain as day that you re NR an that you applied for NR tags previously . so net net, you have made it through 2 roadblocks to hunting deer in Iowa and that my friends is a sin. It would seem pretty easy block if the state put 1 ounce of effort into this
 
also when you register to vote, your swearing that iowa is in fact your primary residence, it says plain as day that when you say that it is , and it is not, it is punishable by 7500 dollars and like 5 years in jail. is this worth a a deer tag?
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you then hve to call DNR and register as a residnt, </div></div>

hadn't heard of that one...somebody fill me in?
 
if you are NR- you are most like in electronic system as NR , its coded to your social etc.. so you call in as a resident now and what do they get but your name and social attached to some guy in michgan(you) but your applying as a resident . so it has to be switched over
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so it has to be switched over
</div></div>

Ok...but so what? The local Co isn't going to get a notice saying Joe So n So just became a resident.

16,000 people move to Iowa every year some of which hunt and fish...I highly doubt that "big brother" is watching them every day for X amount of days to see if they are "physically" at home??

The best bet if anyone is concerned about any "grey" areas they should talk with the local CO and make sure there are no problems. At the same time how will our CO's have an advantage or ability to prove or disprove residency by passing this law??

This is my whole issue with "days" to being a resident...it would seem very difficult to enforce from that aspect but that's just my personal thoughts
 
I had to call to get off the resident list so I could buy a NR turkey tag and small game license. I was a registered landowner and it would have sold me a resident tag no problem. Good thing I'm an honest kind of guy.
 
Attached is the updated language from HF 2612

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Nonresident" means the same as defined in section 483A.1A.
Section 321I.1, subsection 23, Code Supplement
2007, is amended to read as follows: "Resident" means the same as defined in section 483A.1A.

Sec. 5. Section 483A.1A, Code 2007, is amended by adding the following new subsection:

NEW SUBSECTION. 6A. "Nonresident" means a person who is
not a resident.
Sec. 6. Section 483A.1A, subsection 7, Code 2007, is amended to read as follows:
7. "Resident" means a natural person who meets any of the
following criteria for each calendar year in which the person
claims status as a resident:

a. Has physically resided in this state and has claimed the person's principal and primary home or domicile in this state for a period of not less than thirty consecutive days immediately before applying for or purchasing a resident license, tag, or permit under this chapter and has been issued an Iowa driver's license or an Iowa non operator's identification card. For the purposes of this paragraph, "principal and primary home or domicile" means the one and only residence where a person has a true, fixed, and permanent home, and to where, whenever the person is briefly and temporarily absent, the person intends to return, according to factors provided in section 483A.1B. A person is not considered a resident for purposes of this paragraph if the person is residing in the state only for a special or temporary purpose, including but not limited to hunting, fishing, or trapping.
</div></div>
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At the same time how will our CO's have an advantage or ability to prove or disprove residency by passing this law??

This is my whole issue with "days" to being a resident...it would seem very difficult to enforce from that aspect but that's just my personal thoughts </div></div>

I had thought about this as well. How would you prove that you were residing in Iowa for the 180 day prior to season. Better yet how could the CO prove that you weren't. I think it would be pretty easy. Credit card use, cell phone calls, mail delivered, ect. I'm not sure but don't most phones now have GPS tracking build in. The CO would be able to get records to show where you were at during the 180 days prior to season. If you wanted to try to skirt the 180 days I think it would be very difficult.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I did indicate that suit has a strong possibility of winning as no other State will not let a non resident hunt land they own. Please indicate if I’m wrong by pointing out another State that does not provide NR landowners with some type of hunting/tag allocation preference?</div></div>

I can't say that the other States don't choose to give some type of hunting/tag allocation preference but I cannot find where the courts have ruled that they have to.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is an assumption but the lawsuit would be discrimination based and if you do some research on discrimination based lawsuits <u>you will unfortunately find precedence needed to be alarmed.</u> </div></div>

Please link to any nonresident hunter or nonresident landowner discrimination cases relating to hunting privilages which would set or could possibly set precedence. </div></div>


I posted case precedent indicating a State has the right to determine NR landowner hunting privileges like you asked. The case also pointed out that the NR landowner was ineligible for the limited turkey permits reserved for residents <u>ONLY</u>.

OneCam - Do you have any cases to link yet that would show that they would have any chance of winning (legal precedent)? I've been waiting to read the decisions. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif


PLEASE LINK! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif
 
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer nor do pretend to be one I didn't even stay at the Holiday Inn last night /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Here is one link - http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?page=h_fea_nonresident_tags3_FHN

The good news is recent legislation sponsored by U.S. Senator Harry Reid of Nevada that was passed by Congress and signed into law by President George Bush reaffirmed the authority of states to manage wildlife and recreation which in essence overturned this ruling and let the state of Arizona set take back control of it's NR quota.

The key is the judgement by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals - thus precedent. I see the would be case at our door step a similar and yet quite unique ... a case that is twisted to take advantage of this or similar precedent yet fall outside of state managing wildlife and recreation ruling.

As I read the above changes in HF 2612 there still seems to be loop holes.

Again I want to share the information - everyone needs to support what makes them comfortable.

What I would strongly suggest to everyone is to make sure you are an IBA Member as there was a tremendous amount of poor legislation that was avoided do to their strong presence at the legislative session again this year.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I posted case precedent indicating a State has the right to determine NR landowner hunting privileges like you asked. The case also pointed out that the NR landowner was ineligible for the limited turkey permits reserved for residents ONLY.</div></div>

IowaQDM - I think what I actually asked for was a state that didn't provide NR landowners with some privilege/additional tag allocation.
 
As some know I am currently a NR landowner. I understood the rules and lack of rights to hunt my land ever year with an either sex tag. Please understand I am not questioning this. Our family plan has been that once my wife completes nursing school, we would seriously look at building our home in southern Iowa with her working at a hospital in Des Monies. Now I have career where travel is possible and does happen. It’s a pretty much guarantee that I will travel outside Iowa state lines during any 180 day period. Does this potential change make it possible that I would never be a resident Iowa citizen for the purpose of purchasing a resident hunting or fishing license? Please some tell me this isn’t so, and if it is, why would the IBA support this???
If I’m living in, paying taxes in, buying grocery in, going out to dinner in, sending my kid to college in, etc….Iowa, why am I not a resident to buy a hunting license…because I have to travel????
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It’s a pretty much guarantee that I will travel outside Iowa state lines during any 180 day period. Does this potential change make it possible that I would never be a resident Iowa citizen for the purpose of purchasing a resident hunting or fishing license? </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I’m living in, paying taxes in, buying grocery in, going out to dinner in, sending my kid to college in, etc….Iowa, why am I not a resident to buy a hunting license…because I have to travel???? </div></div>


You will have NO trouble claiming residency in IOWA even if you travel for work.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: iowaqdm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I had thought about this as well. How would you prove that you were residing in Iowa for the 180 day prior to season. Better yet how could the CO prove that you weren't. I think it would be pretty easy. Credit card use, cell phone calls, mail delivered, ect. I'm not sure but don't most phones now have GPS tracking build in. The CO would be able to get records to show where you were at during the 180 days prior to season. If you wanted to try to skirt the 180 days I think it would be very difficult. </div></div>


The CO has to sleep sometime, doesn't he? /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Getting phone records and credit card records are jobs for investigators, and probably a very large number of them. And I imagine that a subpoena would be needed to obtain these items. We are already asking so much of our CO's. Do they really have the time and ability to investigate every person claiming residency? I don't believe it is realistic to think that this would be as easy a task as you think it would be.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IowaQDM - I think what I actually asked for was a state that didn't provide NR landowners with some privilege/additional tag allocation. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did indicate that suit has a strong possibility of winning as no other State will not let a non resident hunt land they own. Please indicate if I’m wrong by pointing out another State that does not provide NR landowners with some type of hunting/tag allocation preference? </div></div>

My reponse was:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't say that the other States don't choose to give some type of hunting/tag allocation preference but <u>I cannot find where the courts have ruled that they have to.</u> </div></div>

Quoted from Kansas Case
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As a nonresident landowner, Taulman <u>is not allowed to obtain a special transferable Hunt-Own-Land deer permit</u>. <u>In addition, because his land is in turkey management Unit 4 and he is a nonresident, he is ineligible for the limited number of turkey permits reserved for the resident-only drawing in that unit.</u> </div></div>

The case you linked was reported by ESPN 2-8-05. The Reid legislation was signed 5-10-05 and the Kansas Case ruling was made 9-12-06.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The good news is recent legislation sponsored by U.S. Senator Harry Reid of Nevada that was passed by Congress and signed into law by President George Bush reaffirmed the authority of states to manage wildlife and recreation which in essence overturned this ruling and let the state of Arizona set take back control of it's NR quota. </div></div>

On May 10, 2005, the President signed into law House Bill 1268, the “Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act for Defense, the Global War on Terror,
and Tsunami Relief, 2005.” Although seemingly unrelated to the general thrust of the
legislation, Section 6063 of House Bill 1268 specifically addresses the issue raised in
this appeal, providing:
(a) SHORT TITLE. – This section may be cited as the “Reaffirmation of
State Regulation of Resident and Nonresident Hunting and Fishing Act
of 2005”.
(b) Declaration of Policy and Construction of Congressional Silence –
(1) IN GENERAL. – It is the policy of Congress that it is in the public
interest for each State to continue to regulate the taking for any purpose
of fish and wildlife within its boundaries, including by means of laws or
regulations that differentiate between residents and nonresidents of such
State with respect to the availability of licenses or permits for taking of
particular species of fish or wildlife, the kind and numbers of fish and
wildlife that may be taken, or the fees charged in connection with
issuance of licenses or permits for hunting or fishing.
(2) CONSTRUCTION OF CONGRESSIONAL SILENCE. – Silence on
the part of Congress shall not be construed to impose any barrier under
clause 3 of Section 8 of Article I of the Constitution (commonly referred
to as the “commerce clause”) to the regulation of hunting or fishing by
a State or Indian tribe.


<u>Another decision in North Dakota stating NR landowners not entitled to hunting rights.</u>

United States Court of Appeals
FOR THE EIGHTH CIRCUIT
Filed: August 3, 2006
North Dakota law drastically restricts hunting privileges of nonresidents as
compared to North Dakota residents. Some of those restrictions have come under
attack in this lawsuit as invalid under the United States Constitution. Representatives2
of the neighboring state of Minnesota (collectively “Minnesota”) brought this action
against defendants3, officials of the State of North Dakota (collectively “North
Dakota”). The district court4 rejected the Minnesota claims and granted summary
judgment of dismissal in favor of North Dakota. Minnesota appeals. We affirm the
judgment but do so in part on grounds other than those relied on by the district court.
We recognize that North Dakota Century Code § 20.1-03-04 provides, “Any
resident, or any member of the resident’s family residing customarily with the
resident, may hunt small game, fish, or trap during the open season without a license
upon land owned or leased by the resident.” However, this statute <u>does not
discriminate against nonresidents with respect to a fundamental right existing in
property. Rather, it discriminates against nonresident participation in recreational
hunting, which the United States Constitution does not protect under Article IV, § 2.
</u>

I am still in favor of doing what is right rather than worring about a lawsuit. There have been multiple decisions in favor of the State and it's right to restrict nonresidents and nonresident landowners with respect to hunting privileges. I still say any suit would just be a waste of the plantiff's money and time. I think there is plenty of precedent defining the States rights. IMO
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The CO has to sleep sometime, doesn't he?

Getting phone records and credit card records are jobs for investigators, and probably a very large number of them. And I imagine that a subpoena would be needed to obtain these items. We are already asking so much of our CO's. Do they really have the time and ability to investigate every person claiming residency? I don't believe it is realistic to think that this would be as easy a task as you think it would be. </div></div>

I agree that the CO's a busy. Most of the guys being investigated for residency violations would be guys turned in by a TIP just like poachers. If someone gets a resident tag when they are a nonresident isn't that breaking the law? What if they get three buck tags and fill all of them? Does that individual need to be prosecuted? Most poaching cases take weeks to months to get all the evidence collected before going court. This would be no different.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Credit card use, cell phone calls, mail delivered, ect. I'm not sure but don't most phones now have GPS tracking build in. </div></div>

None of those would have legal precendence in proving or disproving residency. I know truckers who are home one weeked a month...so everything about this whole deal just went out the window.

I know plenty of folks who spend nearly 6 months a year in Florida or Texas and have mail forwarded, phone service etc..

Sorry but 180 days IMO isn't going to solve anything except stir up a hornets nest.

Great debate though! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
After speaking with a property law professor, this might be one to just let go. I wasnt following all the legal jargon but it didnt sound like it would be in the states best interest to press the issue.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After speaking with a property law professor, this might be one to just let go. I wasnt following all the legal jargon but it didnt sound like it would be in the states best interest to press the issue.
</div></div>

Please elaborate. Every State has residency requirements? Some much tougher than what Iowa has proposed. The case precedent has been clearly presented showing a State's right to limit NR landowner's hunting privileges.
 
Top Bottom