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Oak Savannas

I walked my oak savanna with my IDNR Forester on Monday and now that the big oaks have leafed out I was suprised to find that in addition to white oaks I have many Swamp White Oaks! :)

Previously I mistook many of them for Burr oaks but the Swamps are known for sweeter low tannin acorns making them of course more desirable to whitetails. Burr Oaks are one of the most commonly found oaks in the southern Iowa savannas so I guess i had that in the back of my mind...

Burr Oak Bark

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Burr Oak Leaf

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Swamp White Oak Bark

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SWO Leaf

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I should have known by the scaley bark on the younger trees

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I talked to him also about using glyphosate to control invasives in some areas until I can get the area to burn because much of it is in a low area where rich moist soils will soon explode with brush!

The areas I did burn are remarkably clean except for some grasses coming up...next time I'll remember to take my camera....:rolleyes: :p
 
Did I mention you can build an oak savanna from scratch??

NWSG, oak seedlings and Oust XP and your in business! :way:

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In these cases the Oust is releasing the Big Bluestem as well as controlling weeds and fescue around the oak seedlings...perfect!

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In many areas of the midwest it's amazing how much native grass is laying there waiting for a chance to grow...if you just give it a chance...;)
 
dbltree said:
In many areas of the midwest it's amazing how much native grass is laying there waiting for a chance to grow...if you just give it a chance...;)
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Great pics!! Shows what some good management can accomplish. :way:

Pretty sure I had some gama grass pop up in an area I sprayed the fescue, then again I could have planted it and forgot about it. :thrwrck: :)

There may be someone that wants some of your native big blue, indian, and switch that I know of. :drink2:
 
When spraying oust around your trees and having the natives pop up around your tree plantings above, are you concerned at all about the natives blocking light to the trees or choking them out at all? What is the difference if natives are growing next to the trees or cool seasons?
 
An interesting update on my oak savanna projects... In this picture its hard to see, but I planted half of this oak savanna in switch grass (right side) and the other half I planted in little bluestem (further back and left)... In this test, the switchgrass seemed to out perform the little bluestem!... I think this next spring I will just seed the whole savanna with big bluestem and switch... I really dont care which grass takes over, as long as its tall and stays up mostly all year. It will be a battle royal for whatever light that makes it past the oaks... I know that the oaks are still fairly tight and it would be ideal to have more space between them, but I already took out about 6 big oaks and every single non oak in that area... I dont think I can bring myself to cut another oak, so if the native grasses dont work, what do you think should be plan B?

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IQDM said:
... I dont think I can bring myself to cut another oak, so if the native grasses dont work, what do you think should be plan B?
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I would burn it a few times, see what happens and go from there. You may be surprised at what is already in the seed bank. Maybe a few shade tolerant shrubs in select areas where fire won't get them? I am fond of downy serviceberry as a timber edge shrub and it is a magnet for wildlife.
 
IQDM said:
When spraying oust around your trees and having the natives pop up around your tree plantings above, are you concerned at all about the natives blocking light to the trees or choking them out at all? What is the difference if natives are growing next to the trees or cool seasons?
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What I see are just enough native grasses to get started back up that are not going to out-compete the oak seedlings. Big blue stays a clump grass anyways so it will not mat around the seedling. The oak seedlings will be above the grasses in the next could years anyways so its the perfect scenario IMO.
 
so really, the vertical height of the grasses are not the concern. Its the falling down of the weaker cool season grasses on top of the seedling, smothering it, is the biggest concern...? And agreed, once the tree grows above the grasses, what better to have surrounding your trees than native grasses!
 
IQDM said:
so really, the vertical height of the grasses are not the concern. Its the falling down of the weaker cool season grasses on top of the seedling, smothering it, is the biggest concern...? And agreed, once the tree grows above the grasses, what better to have surrounding your trees than native grasses!
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The cool season grasses form a sod mat where its hard for a seedling to compete for water and nutrients. The pics that Paul has shows enough open ground around the seedlings to get them established before the big blue seeds out and forms more stands around it so IMO that is not a bad set up. The grasses can also help shield the seedling from rutting bucks and browsing.
 
letemgrow said:
The cool season grasses form a sod mat where its hard for a seedling to compete for water and nutrients. The pics that Paul has shows enough open ground around the seedlings to get them established before the big blue seeds out and forms more stands around it so IMO that is not a bad set up. The grasses can also help shield the seedling from rutting bucks and browsing.
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Phil hit the nail on the head and covered that question well...:way:
 
Man you guys are crazy. My ole man's place is nothing but Oak Savannas and there isnt' a dang deer or turkey in there at all. What I would give to have some real timber like you just destroyed!!! I guess if you got enough of it what the heck to ruin some of it. The huge oaks are pretty awesome at our farm as far as looking at them but they suck for deer hunting.
 
Liv4Rut said:
Man you guys are crazy. My ole man's place is nothing but Oak Savannas and there isnt' a dang deer or turkey in there at all. What I would give to have some real timber like you just destroyed!!! I guess if you got enough of it what the heck to ruin some of it. The huge oaks are pretty awesome at our farm as far as looking at them but they suck for deer hunting.
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What type of grass/forbes is underneath those oaks? It would be mind boggling if it was NWSG underneath big oaks and there was no deer use at all.
 
I am not a grass guy to answer the question. Its all about knee to thigh high. We kind of have a mixture. Some of the big oaks are on grassy hill sides. Some are out in the middle of lush alfalfa, some are around standing bean plots. The deer go through it some but mainly passing through. We didn't set this up this way though. It used to be a huge timber that somebody dozed and left all the giants oaks. This was many years ago though. The place is starting to get Shrubby with 10-12 ft shrubs / trees and the deer are finally starting to go through it regularly now that it is thickening up nicely.
 
I would take Mature Oaks with tall thick Switch grass and Big bluestem around them any day!
 
Liv4Rut said:
I am not a grass guy to answer the question. Its all about knee to thigh high. We kind of have a mixture. Some of the big oaks are on grassy hill sides. Some are out in the middle of lush alfalfa, some are around standing bean plots. The deer go through it some but mainly passing through. We didn't set this up this way though. It used to be a huge timber that somebody dozed and left all the giants oaks. This was many years ago though. The place is starting to get Shrubby with 10-12 ft shrubs / trees and the deer are finally starting to go through it regularly now that it is thickening up nicely.
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NWSG can be 6-8 foot high so it sounds like you have some cool season grasses there which are no good for deer for the most part. The only cool season I would actually plant on the farm is timothy. :way:
 
My ole man's place is nothing but Oak Savannas and there isnt' a dang deer or turkey in there at all.
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A true Oak Savanna consist of tall native prairie grass that grows 6-8' tall and the combination of tall grass and oaks is pretty hard to beat.

Short cool season grass is a waste land and that's why there are no wildlife in your Dad's oaks....the difference in habitat is night and day and in no way comparable.

I would also add that my own savanna is an effort to restore some historical diversity and only comprises less then 2% of my farm....;)
 
dbltree said:
I would also add that my own savanna is an effort to restore some historical diversity and only comprises less then 2% of my farm....;)
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That will be the most bio-diverse part of your farm too so it is icing on the cake for lots of wildlife. :way:
 
Here are some pictures of my new oak savannah project. This is a small oak planting that I have seeded into switchgrass and will be hitting with gly and atrazine very soon. I can just picture a brute bedded under one of those oaks and one day lapping up the acorns that they produce. :rolleyes:
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