Fishbonker
Life Member
Point well taken about the youth season. I'm looking at it as a glass half full instead of half empty.
The 'Bonker
The 'Bonker
Opinions on the "Lovstuen" story....
- Thread starter Rembrandt
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Rembrandt
Guest
Just some information to back up my thoughts on this...
...reading the deer regualtions, it clearly states you cannot use a device that projects artificial light into a field (camera Flash?) while hunting with a firearm....
The article raises more questions than it answers....
Appears to be legal, I'm uncomfortable with the camera issue...
...reading the deer regualtions, it clearly states you cannot use a device that projects artificial light into a field (camera Flash?) while hunting with a firearm....
The article raises more questions than it answers....
Appears to be legal, I'm uncomfortable with the camera issue...
I've said it before, It's too bad this sport is being tied to fame, big antlers and Money.
Rembrandt, I'm wonder why you are digging so deep to stir confrontation? Why focus on all of the "grey" areas?
I mean a flash bulb off of a remote camera? I don't think they flashed a camera bulb just before they shot him. Come on...Thousands of pictures of great bucks have been taken with remote cameras, even on this site and then the deer were harvested. Why up until now you question it's integrity?
Have you ever had help hanging a tree stand from a friend for bowhunting season? Is that in affect a "collective effort"? Do you ever scout deer with fellow hunters, come up with a game plan together?
Give 'em a break it's a great deer, great for the state of Iowa, and great for the young man and his family.
Trying to debate this story will do nothing for the sport of hunting except divide those of us who love the sport.
Pupster
Rembrandt, I'm wonder why you are digging so deep to stir confrontation? Why focus on all of the "grey" areas?
I mean a flash bulb off of a remote camera? I don't think they flashed a camera bulb just before they shot him. Come on...Thousands of pictures of great bucks have been taken with remote cameras, even on this site and then the deer were harvested. Why up until now you question it's integrity?
Have you ever had help hanging a tree stand from a friend for bowhunting season? Is that in affect a "collective effort"? Do you ever scout deer with fellow hunters, come up with a game plan together?
Give 'em a break it's a great deer, great for the state of Iowa, and great for the young man and his family.
Trying to debate this story will do nothing for the sport of hunting except divide those of us who love the sport.
Pupster
OneCam
Well-Known Member
I haven't read the article yet but I do know the story well. The legality of this hunt was on the up and up - 100% legal, PERIOD.
I've read everyone's comments and all points are well taken. Overall the point is it was taken legally and ethically by the majority standards.
I hope that we can all step back and celebrate this accomplishment. Be careful because if your not close to the situation - looking for/creating faults does the sport no good and will be percieved as jealosy.
Congrats Tony on a New World Record!
I've read everyone's comments and all points are well taken. Overall the point is it was taken legally and ethically by the majority standards.
I hope that we can all step back and celebrate this accomplishment. Be careful because if your not close to the situation - looking for/creating faults does the sport no good and will be percieved as jealosy.
Congrats Tony on a New World Record!
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hawkeyefan
Guest
I read the article in Iowa Game & Fish and would have to agree that it was very difficult to follow. I have a subscription to this magazine and have read several other stories of big buck harvests in this year's issues that were well written and enjoyable to read. I hope the second installment (written from Tony's perspective) is better than this first draft. I don't think there's any question regarding the "legality" of the way this buck was harvested. I just think there are those who feel the harvest was less pure than it could have been. I wish nothing but the best to the Lovstuens and think they are fine people. I have no issue with the harvest. Just wish the first article would have been better written. I'll have to check out the one in North American Whitetail as I've heard it is more complete.
![893USA1-thumb[1].gif](http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/893USA1-thumb[1].gif)
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Monster Doe
Guest
I'm on the fence with this issue, although I will admit reading the article made me a little uncomfortable and uneasy, definitely pushing my personal ethical boundaries. With that said, I congratulate the kid who harvested this amazing animal.
One more thing: A person's opinion can be twisted by those who want it to be percieved as jealousy. I've read all the posts in the thread and not one seems "jealous" at all, just a feeling or reaction some people get after reading the story.
One more thing: A person's opinion can be twisted by those who want it to be percieved as jealousy. I've read all the posts in the thread and not one seems "jealous" at all, just a feeling or reaction some people get after reading the story.
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thegeneral
Guest
I’ll concede that it’s possible that North American Whitetail is to blame for some of my uneasiness. Maybe the grammatical faults, which aren’t the fault of the Lovstuen’s, aren’t the only problems with the published story? I would feel a lot better if North American Whitetail printed some field pictures of Tony holding his deer instead of his Dad and Uncles. I found that to be strange. And why would they wait until the next issue to print Tony’s perspective? My guess is so they can sell more magazines. The article clearly labels and portrays him as the triggerman, and it bothers me because it occurred during a season intended for youths. I understand that a parent must be involved in the hunt, which is why youths are required to be chaperoned during this special season. But Doug’s level of involvement, fueled by obsession, stepped over my ethical boundary.
I’m sure all of us here, including me; agree that OneCam and Old Buck are stand up guys that know this story better than the rest of us. But remember, not all of us have had the privilege of getting to know this story on a first hand basis. The story and pictures of this buck were kept under tight wraps. I know only the facts as stated in the article, and that is all that I’ve commented on. I did not read the article with the intent of looking for or creating faults, they’re there and are plain to see, in my opinion. Believe me, I’m uncomfortable bringing them up and posting them here. I want to believe in this story as bad as anyone else, especially as a lifelong Iowan. One Cam, after you read the article, perhaps you’ll better understand where some of us are coming from.
I’m sure all of us here, including me; agree that OneCam and Old Buck are stand up guys that know this story better than the rest of us. But remember, not all of us have had the privilege of getting to know this story on a first hand basis. The story and pictures of this buck were kept under tight wraps. I know only the facts as stated in the article, and that is all that I’ve commented on. I did not read the article with the intent of looking for or creating faults, they’re there and are plain to see, in my opinion. Believe me, I’m uncomfortable bringing them up and posting them here. I want to believe in this story as bad as anyone else, especially as a lifelong Iowan. One Cam, after you read the article, perhaps you’ll better understand where some of us are coming from.
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Rembrandt
Guest
Quote Pupster: "I'm wonder why you are digging so deep to stir confrontation?"
Fair question, long answer.....I've been a Hunter Education Instructor teaching ethics and responsible hunting methods to thousands of youngsters for more years than you've probably been hunting. After all those years one begins to question every aspect of the sport and how it's perceived to the non-hunting public.
Today's deer hunting has evolved into a combination of old time skills and "high tech equipment". Sure we hunt with In-lines, Gortex, and better bows.....same tools everyone used 80 years ago, but vastly improved with modern technology and materials.
My issue with trail cams is that it's not an improvement over what was used 80 years ago. Lovstuen Buck will be in the same group with deer taken by Larry Raveling, John Breen, Jim Jordan and others...disturbing to know they never used surveylance technology to get their deer...we're seeing a whole new hunting tactic that never existed before....just as we now see technology creating controversy in Professional Sports with steroids...or underwater fish locators. Many who grew up with traditional hunting methods, question the ethics and direction this technology is taking the next generation.
When I first heard that the Albia Buck had been taken by a youth, I couldn't have been more pleased....Hooray!, this was the deer hunting equivilant of Kurt Warner winning the Super Bowl and MVP. Iowa produces a World Class buck and to top it off, it was taken by a youngster.
There is an old saying, "Trust...but verify". My hunting partner and I went to Old Bucks open house Friday morning, we were one of the first 75 to see this magnificent buck. When our turn came we went into the little room with about 8 others and stared in amazment. Doug Lovstuen was there and began telling us how the deer was taken....to our shock he made a statement that neither of us could believe. My hunting partner, who is also a member of Iowa Whitetail and I have agreed not to post it here. Neither of us said a word and went back to our truck. I turned to him and asked "did you hear what the Father said, or did I imagine that?" At that point we both had some doubts about this hunt. We agreed to wait till the story came out and give it the benefit of the doubt. Since reading the article, the comments we heard first hand from Doug Lovstuen seem plausible...One Cam, if you'd care to check it out, I'll give you the range of numbers of the registered people that were in the room when it occured. There were 8 others who heard it, you can contact them...should be in Old Bucks guest registry book.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, mine were shaped by the article and statements from someone who was there...Doug Lovstuen.
Fair question, long answer.....I've been a Hunter Education Instructor teaching ethics and responsible hunting methods to thousands of youngsters for more years than you've probably been hunting. After all those years one begins to question every aspect of the sport and how it's perceived to the non-hunting public.
Today's deer hunting has evolved into a combination of old time skills and "high tech equipment". Sure we hunt with In-lines, Gortex, and better bows.....same tools everyone used 80 years ago, but vastly improved with modern technology and materials.
My issue with trail cams is that it's not an improvement over what was used 80 years ago. Lovstuen Buck will be in the same group with deer taken by Larry Raveling, John Breen, Jim Jordan and others...disturbing to know they never used surveylance technology to get their deer...we're seeing a whole new hunting tactic that never existed before....just as we now see technology creating controversy in Professional Sports with steroids...or underwater fish locators. Many who grew up with traditional hunting methods, question the ethics and direction this technology is taking the next generation.
When I first heard that the Albia Buck had been taken by a youth, I couldn't have been more pleased....Hooray!, this was the deer hunting equivilant of Kurt Warner winning the Super Bowl and MVP. Iowa produces a World Class buck and to top it off, it was taken by a youngster.
There is an old saying, "Trust...but verify". My hunting partner and I went to Old Bucks open house Friday morning, we were one of the first 75 to see this magnificent buck. When our turn came we went into the little room with about 8 others and stared in amazment. Doug Lovstuen was there and began telling us how the deer was taken....to our shock he made a statement that neither of us could believe. My hunting partner, who is also a member of Iowa Whitetail and I have agreed not to post it here. Neither of us said a word and went back to our truck. I turned to him and asked "did you hear what the Father said, or did I imagine that?" At that point we both had some doubts about this hunt. We agreed to wait till the story came out and give it the benefit of the doubt. Since reading the article, the comments we heard first hand from Doug Lovstuen seem plausible...One Cam, if you'd care to check it out, I'll give you the range of numbers of the registered people that were in the room when it occured. There were 8 others who heard it, you can contact them...should be in Old Bucks guest registry book.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, mine were shaped by the article and statements from someone who was there...Doug Lovstuen.
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BillWinke
Guest
I grew up in Waukon, so I want to know who Waukon1 is. Anyway, I apologize for the Iowa Game and Fish version of the story. I submitted 5,600 words that the editor crunched down to 2,500 words for that magazine. The flow got lost in the editing - to a certain degree. They ran it full length in NAW.
The second feature will be more about Tony and the hunt from his perspective. Remember he's just 15. Not all 15 year olds are ready for national attention. When I was 15 I was not ready for anything like Tony will have to face. Therefore he was protected from the glare to a certain extent.
Background: I compiled 7 hours of taped interviews into 27,000 words of text and from that I had to work it down to what seemed most interesting. I ended up with 5,600 words on the first story and about 4,400 on the second.
I have been very impressed with the cousins and the way they have handled the attention. Better than I would have. They are very patient with the interuptions on their life and try to accomodate everyone. They will make some money, but not as much as most people think.
That's my side of it, for what it's worth.
Winke
The second feature will be more about Tony and the hunt from his perspective. Remember he's just 15. Not all 15 year olds are ready for national attention. When I was 15 I was not ready for anything like Tony will have to face. Therefore he was protected from the glare to a certain extent.
Background: I compiled 7 hours of taped interviews into 27,000 words of text and from that I had to work it down to what seemed most interesting. I ended up with 5,600 words on the first story and about 4,400 on the second.
I have been very impressed with the cousins and the way they have handled the attention. Better than I would have. They are very patient with the interuptions on their life and try to accomodate everyone. They will make some money, but not as much as most people think.
That's my side of it, for what it's worth.
Winke
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BillWinke
Guest
I'll check back in on this thread each day to see if I can offer anything. Much of the story I can't tell until the second NAW feature comes out, but I can comment on the family. Still think they are first-class. I've been very impressed.
Bill
Bill
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Bobcat
Guest
Winke, welcome aboard, hope you'll stick around, this is really a great site.
I have been also taking in everyones opinions and I have to think that everything was done legal so I don't have an issue with it.BUT,how can anyone say that the use of a trailcam is in the same class as using a flash or light projection when hunting????Do you think the spotlighted it with the flash from the trailcam???COme on,that is ridiculous.Anyone who has a trailcam would set up or hunt an area that they had pics of a good buck.CONGRATULATIONS TONY!!!!!
Bakes
Member
I have been staying clear of this post until Sir Bill Winke showed up. I would like to thank him for the thrilling and informative articles that he has written over the years.
We all know by now that the ethical side of the hunt could be discussed for hours over several beers and we would never all agree. I personally have no problem with the way the buck was harvested or anything for that matter that the Lovstuen Family did.
The only question for myself is as a father would I want my son (or ask my son) at 15 years old to shoot a buck of that size. I truely feel this would effect the hunting future of any person, let alone a 15 year old boy. That is a lot of responsibility to carry and only time will tell how Tony deals with it, hopefully he stays interested and has many successfull seasons in his future. My son is eight years old and daughter is six and I can't wait until they can join me on a mid Novemeber whitetail hunt. If I knew that buck was coming into the field that night like it sounds like they did, would I tell my son or daughter to shoot it, I can't answer that because I can't wear thier shoes. But I know it would be something that would have been discussed at great links prior to the final decision, which may have very well taken place. We will have to find out in Tonys article.
Congrats Tony!
Nonres
We all know by now that the ethical side of the hunt could be discussed for hours over several beers and we would never all agree. I personally have no problem with the way the buck was harvested or anything for that matter that the Lovstuen Family did.
The only question for myself is as a father would I want my son (or ask my son) at 15 years old to shoot a buck of that size. I truely feel this would effect the hunting future of any person, let alone a 15 year old boy. That is a lot of responsibility to carry and only time will tell how Tony deals with it, hopefully he stays interested and has many successfull seasons in his future. My son is eight years old and daughter is six and I can't wait until they can join me on a mid Novemeber whitetail hunt. If I knew that buck was coming into the field that night like it sounds like they did, would I tell my son or daughter to shoot it, I can't answer that because I can't wear thier shoes. But I know it would be something that would have been discussed at great links prior to the final decision, which may have very well taken place. We will have to find out in Tonys article.
Congrats Tony!
Nonres
deadeye
Active Member
sure it was the kids first deer, but if is to become a true hunter who loves the outdoors as much as any of us on this site then he will realize that he probably won't ever see a buck that big again - let alone harvest one close to that year after year. Time will tell if he hunts for the love of it or for the show of it.
Congrats
and hats off to him.
Congrats
Winke,
Nice to see you give your 2 cents!
I have enjoyed your articles for years. Keep it up.
Rembrant,
You are entitled to your opinions, but just because you hang a trail camera is by no means a garauntee that you'll get a shot at the deer you happen to photograph. You still need the skills it takes to put yourself in a position to take the animal, and when it all comes together you still need the skills to keep your composure and make the shot. This conversation is going nowhere.
I will now excuse myself from this thread.
Pupster
Nice to see you give your 2 cents!
I have enjoyed your articles for years. Keep it up.
Rembrant,
You are entitled to your opinions, but just because you hang a trail camera is by no means a garauntee that you'll get a shot at the deer you happen to photograph. You still need the skills it takes to put yourself in a position to take the animal, and when it all comes together you still need the skills to keep your composure and make the shot. This conversation is going nowhere.
I will now excuse myself from this thread.
Pupster