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Options for 2006?

Bowmaker......everything you have to say makes very good sense.....however, you must understand that the state's deer management program is not driven by good sense. Financial interest will always take precidence over sound biological deer management. So sad, but so true!

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Good Reply!
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1. Lower antlerless prices. If prices were $5 hunters would grab a couple extra during the gun seasons, which is probably the most convenient time to harvest doe. Groups would shoot more doe if they just had the tags, but are not going to spend 27 dollars and then even 12 to get the tags.

2. Make antlerless tags any-season tags.

3. Special resident-only 2-3 day hunts by drawing in target areas. The drawing could be for groups of hunters. Yourself and 4 hunting buddies could enter the draw as a group, get drawn and spend the weekend in an overpopulated area shooting as many doe as you can. These hunts could be "earn-a-buck" or simply doe only. They could be in management areas or on private ground in cooperation with the land owner.

4. No guns in November.

5. Open bow Sept. 1st.

6. No Rifles.

7. Promote Doe harvest for the sake of quality herd management. "Shooting a doe is better than shooting a little buck."
 
wjs,

Thank-you for soliciting our input.

Option #1, would be the best and least controversial solution.
Simple economics tells us that if you want to sell more of something lower the price.

As far as your cons,
This change would directly affect the problem counties because they would sell more antlerless tags, which would hopefully equal a higher harvest.

If you are worried about the potential loss of revenue, make the problem counties the only reduced fee areas. This would have little or no impact on the bottom line as these counties have a large amount of unsold tags every year. Twice as many tags being sold for half price equals the same amount of $.

Remember, there are two and only two reasons why Iowa has the deer herd that all other states envy. We didn't allow firearms in November and we didn't allow rifles.

Thanks again for listening to our opinions.
 
If it weren't for money, we probably wouldn't have this problem.
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you give me 20 doe tags for 20 bucks I will have 20 does dead over 1st season shotgun, simple as that. but give me 20 doe tags for $267 bucks, you will have 20 does producing 20-40 more for next year. It's really not that hard to figure out what needs to be done you just gotta bite the bullet and do it. Lower the prices
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I would agree with #1 also. I would also buy more antlerless if they were cheaper. Make them good for any season is common sense too. I know it would p.o. many NR; but go by the zone they draw, if it's in an area where there's a population problem(southern 2 tiers)make it earn-a-buck. At least for a couple of years. Also hard to enforce but common sense is to make non-resident landowners earn-a-buck througout the state. Once again I'm sure it will p.o. some. Outfitters should also be held accountable by an earn-a-buck in some areas.
 
Excellent replies by many folks. Popular to the group are decreased antlerless tag prices and also the ability to use them any season - I'm in favor of both.

Has anyone checked the DNR's webpage and took a look at the antlerless licenses left by county? Yesterday at lunch I printed off the page and quickly added things up. Three days before the first shotgun season the lower 2 tier of Iowa's counties still had 52% of their tags available for purchase. Also consider that these counties have available to them roughly 40% (over 40,000 tags) of all antlerless tags available in Iowa. Of over 100,000 tags available in the state of Iowa there are still over 21,000 available in the lower two tiers. It seems to me the land access is a bigger issue here and I really don't have a good solution - only wanted to bring some statistics to everyone's attention. If you take the time to look at this on the DNR's webpage you'll find many of the other counties are sold out and some have been sold out for quite awhile.

WJS - I applaud you for coming here and asking for our input. We as hunters also need to voice our opinions to our legislators - that's where the real work can get done. One suggestion for '06 - please let everyone know of any public meetings concerning herd managment well in advance. I remember this past summer the Natural Resource Commission met about this past November's hunt and had already made their decisions but very few people knew about the meeting. This website could be the perfect place to post about upcoming meetings so we as hunters have a chance to be heard. If none of us attend we have ourselves to blame. Again thanks for coming on here and giving us the opportunity to give our input.

Good luck to all the shotgunners in the upcoming weeks - you all got a great early Christmas present with this snow.
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For me, I'm headed to Springbrook State Park this weekend to participate in their management hunt - great opportunity for an early muzzleoader guy to get out with a gun to harvest some more does.
 
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There has to be some kind of incentive for the owners of these properties to shoot deer on their property or let me hunt.

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I remember hearing some time ago that in a western state they were trying to reduce the numbers of pronghorn does. Their solution. They paid a bounty to the land owner for allowing hunters on the land to harvest the over populated doe herd. After harvesting the doe, the hunter had to check in with the land owner and give him a stub from his tag, making his tag invalid for future use. The land owner would then send the stubs into the state and they paid him $10.00 per stub for allowing the hunters on his land to harvest a doe.

I'm assuming that the tag purchase price must have been higher than $10.00 to allow the state to generate revenue and recoop processing costs.

wjs, Whatever they're paying you, it's not enough.
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I'm curious why you have special late season hunts,or why we have to specify a season at all for filling doe tags. Why not just buy a tag and fill it when ever the hunter sees fit.

Pupster
 
1) SLASH the price of antlerless tags
2) Allow unfilled antlerless tags to be used in any season
3) Increase support for HUSH program
4) Close Non-Res Party Hunting Loophole
5) Issue state wide antlerless tags
6) Consider antler point restriction to increase quality
7) Create a special $0.25/yr tax on all vehicles registered in the State of Iowa to fund DNR and programs


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1) SLASH the price of antlerless tags
2) Allow unfilled antlerless tags to be used in any season
3) Increase support for HUSH program
4) Close Non-Res Party Hunting Loophole
5) Issue state wide antlerless tags
6) Consider antler point restriction to increase quality
7) Create a special $0.25/yr tax on all vehicles registered in the State of Iowa to fund DNR and programs


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I have no problem at all with #7 on your list, I think everyone should have to pay for the DNR and programs just like eveything else.
 
Avid, I like 'em all, but I can see why #5 would be a problem.

Rackaddict- I was in WY in '00 and '02 and it was that way for the buck antelope we shot too. The landowners definately wanted those tag bounties and may have helped us secure a place to hunt. We took nice 'lopes on opening day of both trips BTW, its a fun hunt.
 
I still don't like the "any season" antlerless tags. The intent, I am OK with and support fully. But "intent" and "use" can be two different things. It opens a whole new can of worm and any one of you who do not like the NR antlerless tags (temptation tags) should look closely at what this could do. If you haven't, I could give some examples of legal use of these tags that many of you might not like so much.
 
Well, I read thru this thread and pondered this awhile in the treestand, so here's what i would like too see:

1. access is probably the biggest one. some sort of walk-in program, open up the refuges, maybe a landowner incentive. ya can't kill 'em if ya can't get too 'em.
2.does tags $10, valid all seasons with the appropiate weapon. I know poaching is a concern for some on this one, but they're doin' it now anyway. we as ethical hunters can help by reporting it. the DNR needs too establish a visible presence during the hunting seasons. I'm sure they could use the overtime right before christmas.
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3. increase of resident anysex tags to $30. that's about all this poor boy can afford and still buy doe tags with my meager $100 deer huntin' budget.
4. lose the rifle season. iowa is one of the top trophy states because we don't have one, till now.
5.lose the holiday doe season, or just implement it where needed. that little shoot fest happened here just as the rut was hitting the peak. really shut things down here for awhile.
That last one is selfish i know, but the reason we have such trophies is because we allow the rut to occur without the pressure a gun season creates. bowhunting is pretty low impact compared to the orange army running rampant. unfortunately the uninterrupted breeding also yields a bumper crop of does, hence our little problem. but i think access would go a long ways towards fixin' it, as well as making tags more affordable and valid for all seasons. just my 2 cents worth.
 
I BELIEVE THE D.N.R. HAS CAUSED THIS NIGHTMARE. THEY OPENED THE DOORS FOR NONRESIDENTS, WHO HAVE ALL THE MONEY TO BUY AND LEASE UP ALL THE LAND. THEY DON'T LET ANYBODY IN TO SHOOT THE DEER, SO YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CONTROL THE PROBLEM WITHOUT THEIR SUPPORT.THE ONLY REASON THE D.N.R OPENED UP NONRESIDENT WAS FOR THEM TO PAD THEIR POCKET BOOK. I ALSO THINK THE YOUTH HUNTS SHOULD BE DOE ONLY. MANY OF YOU COMMENTED ON HOW A KID WOULD BE HAPPY SHOOTING A DOE, WELL MAKE THEM. THEY CAN STILL HUNT FOR A BUCK WITH THEIR REGULAR TAG.THE D.N.R TURNED DEERHUNTING INTO DEER BIG MONEY BUISNESS. THE GREAT IOWA DEERHUNTING THAT WE ALL GREW UP TO LOVE IS GOING DOWN THE TOILET BECAUSE OF GREED AND MONEY. I'M DISCUSTED WITH ALL THE SHOWS AND MAGAZINES ABOUT DEER HUNTING. WHAT DEERHUNTING HAS BECOME IN THE U.S. IS NO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IS GOING ON IN EUROPE. ONLY THE WEALTHY WILL BE DEERHUNTING. THINK THE POOR D.N.R. HAS A PROBLEM NOW WITH THIS WAIT TILL A SELECT RICH FEW CONTROL ALL THE LAND. WE ALLREADY HAVE BAD RELATIONS BETWEEN THE LANDOWNERS, D.N.R., AND THE HUNTERS. HUNTERS THAT ARE NOT WEALTHY LIKE MYSELF BETTER APRECIATE EVERY BIG BUCK YOU KILL, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE A WHOLE LOT MORE OPURTUNITY AT THEM. MAYBE THE D.N.R. SHOULD STOP WORRING ABOUT PADDING THEIR POCKET BOOKS AND START FIGURING OUT A WAY TO STOP ALL THE LAND BEING CONTROLLED BY A SELECT FEW. I MEAN $27.00 FOR A STINKING DOE TAG, GIVE ME A BREAK. IF THE D.N.R. IS SO WORRIED ABOUT ALL THESE TRILLIONS OF DOES, THEN GIVE THE TAGS AWAY, OH YA THEY NEED TO PAD THEIR POCKET BOOKS. I AM NOT REAL HAPPY THE WAY THE D.N.R. IS RUNNING THINGS ANYMORE. DEERHUNTING IS GETTING TO BE MORE OF A HASSLE THAN FUN ANYMORE, AND IF THIS KEEPS UP I GUARANTEE YOU WILL SEE HUNTER NUMBERS DECLINE AND EVERYTHING WILL FALL APART. THANKS
 
Couldn't agree more with the wealthy/greedy aspects of some of the previous replies both on the individual side as well as the state of IOWA (DNR). I also agree with the reply about nonresidents buying and leasing land which all started after nonresident were able to draw deer tags. Increased Nonresident access has also spawned the outfitter leasing problems. I found one outfit that stated on their website that they had something like 27,000 acres leased in southern Iowa. I feel that the DNR overall is doing a good job with the deer herd, however that being said they can't seem to understand that they need to stop worring so much about the all mighty buck ($$$$) and manage the herd before the legislature and farm bureau step in and do it for them.

Anyone who has deer hunted very long in Iowa knows that the main problem with the growing deer herd is caused because of a lack of access to land, not a lack of hunters willing to harvest does. The second problem is caused by doe tag prices.

Here are my solutions:

1. $30 dollars gets you an any sex tag and a doe tag with $28 going to DNR and $2 to HUSH program.

2. All doe tags are $10 with $8 going to the DNR and $2 to HUSH until all county quotas are filled.

3. License all outfitters (Annual fee $10 per acre leased/owned/operated on). That means 1,000 leased/owned/operated on acres= $10,000 for the outfitter license. Any paying hunter, hunting with a licensed outfitter off of the outfitters designated leased/owned/operated on acres results in $50 per acre fine for all acres leased/owned/operated on by the outfitter. So 1,000 acres leased/owned/operated on results in $50,000 fine. This will help to detour outfitters from not reporting all land leased/owned/operated on. All outfitters must report/register all the names of hunters coming in to hunt, the dates they will hunt and varify their hunting license (drawing results ect.) Once the outfitter is licensed they must submit a (DNR approved) doe harvest plan on all leased/owned/operated on acres. Any outfitter that doesn't meet all doe harvest plan requirements (certain # of does harvested) doesn't get licensed the next year. That would encourage outfitters would allow residents to access their leased/owned/operated on acres to harvest does even if it was only for the special late doe only season. Any outfitter caught trying to submit does not harvested on leased/owned/operated on acres is banned from ever obtaining another outfitter license in the state of Iowa. At the end of the year the outfitter must have in his possession and submit to the DNR to fulfill the doe harvest plan: 1. The lower jaw bone of the doe for aging purposes, 2. The harvest tag from that animal with the hunter's signature, Section number and township of harvest on it. No outfitter may operate on state owned land. Fine for doing so $50,000.

Now for my wish list:

1. Decrease non-resident tags 25%-50% to detour nonresidents from buying/leasing land due to difficulty drawing a tag. This would also detour Outfitters from leasing more land due to decreased chances of their client's drawing a tag.

2. Landowner laws remain the same with Landowner's still getting their $2 anysex tag, but they also get up to 10 free doe tags in the counties designated as problem areas by DNR which can be filled by any Iowa resident during any season for which they have another valid tag or by the landowner during any season they choose with any weapon deemed legal during that season.

4. Any resident child 16 and under can buy unlimited does tags for the $10 without having to buy an anysex tag first.

5. I'm dreaming with this one but here goes: Bow season opens Oct. 1 and runs continous through all seasons with the bow season ending the last day of the last deer season date. Thus, early muzzleloader, shotgun, late season muzzleloader and any special late doe season dates remain the same, however bowhunters could hunt the shotgun seasons. During the shotgun season's (First weekend in December thru the third weekend in December) all bowhunters would be required to wear a blaze orange vest as current gun hunters are required. This would allow bowhunters to take advantage of the increased deer movement during the shotgun season (resulting in increased harvest) while being able to do it safely.
 
How about a points system? If you harvest a doe you are awarded a point. When you accumulate enough points you are awarded an any sex tag good for any season. Since we don't have check stations, could we use the HUSH program? The participating meat locker records the DNR number from the tag and gives the hunter a "receipt" for 1 point. When you get 6 points (could span 2 or 3 seasons) you are eligible for a bonus any sex any season tag. Obviously there are some opportunities for abuse here but maybe somebody else has some additional ideas to make this more foolproof.
 
Iowaqdm

Well here goes. You really have given this reply a lot of thought and I agree with you on several issues, but not on all. Several have made comments about the DNR just being greedy or wanting to pad their pockets and I think nothing could be farther from the facts. While I might disagree with the DNR for adding doe tags and extra seasons to raise revenues I don't agree that it is out of greed, but rather survival and trying to do a job we all want done. Their funds are so limited that we only have 1 CO per county to try to enforce the laws we all want against the bad guys. Whether we agree with their policies or not they want and need more money to help us, and they surly can't buy more public ground without extra funds.

That being said we need to find avenues to extra revenue. I have said for several years that the DNR should be licensing and regulating outfitters. I like your idea of the fee based on acres used, but you might be a little high at $10 per acre. The license application could include number of acres leased and price paid per acre, number of hunters and price per hunt, names of leasing landowners, and projected harvest of both bucks and does. Realisticly we can't cut back on numbers of NR hunters but I also don't want to see big increases in the numbers. We can't blame the leasing and outfitters on the handful of NR hunters coming here. Not many outfitters can lease large parcels of land and do all the other things required and survive on the few NR, they must have lots and lots of resident hunters also. Many residents also lease or buy ground that becomes off limites for the average hunters and that creates the same safe zones as the outfitters and we need some way to address that. I would also like to see land that is leased required to be posted with signs showing the name of the person leasing it. Nonresidents aren't the real problem and we need to think how we would feel if we could not hunt elk or antelope out west, or bears up north, or moose and caribou or any other animals we don't have here in Iowa.

I really like the idea about a doe plan for the outfitters and having some kind of proof system to enforce it. There would be out cries of unfair from outfitters and NR both at first but eventually it would become benifical to both by helping to improve and stabilize the deer herd. I also think we should change the party hunting rules for hunting with outfitters ONLY, that way the outfitter could more easily control the take of his hunters. By licensing and making outfitters conform it will make the good ones better and allow control of the slob ones that will force them out of business, and give stiff penilties to the law breakers.

Just a couple more points. I know that we all have our own adjenda but I can't agree with your bow season idea. I am a bow hunter, so don't take me wrong, but each segment of the deer hunters need their own time in the woods. Bow season already runs the longest and through the best times of the fall and with the exception of a week of muzzle loader hunting and the youth hunt, bow hunters have the deer woods to themselves through the peak of rut and what more could you ask. I know what you said about wearing orange and that would help, but we both know that bow hunters are different and would be in places that gun hunters would not expect and it just isn't fair to make the gun hunters worry about the safty of the bow hunters during the gun seasons. Enjoy the solo time as a bow hunter that you have now and take a break so that the gun hunters can too. If you want to take advantage of the increased deer movement then buy a gun license and join in. Last thing, while I think the price of doe tags should be lowered a little no one can make me believe that the cost is a hold up on harvesting a doe. Even with the first tag being $27 and each other one $12 the cost is still pretty cheap entertainment and you get some pretty good chow too. If you buy 4 doe tags= 27.00 + 12.00 + 12.00 + 12.00= 63.00. Divide that by 4 and you get $15.75 each, or about the price of a pizza, or a movie, or about 6 gallons of gas. I think that about $10.00 for any and all doe tags would be fair and might get some over that first $27.00 hump.

Once again WJS thank you so much for the chance to both vent and express some ideas which each of us think are just short of brilliant. Hopefully this dialog will continue and people won't think the the Iowa DNR are the bad guys.
 
bowmaker,
I appreciate your reply. This reply is not personal so please don't take it that way! I just want to respond to a couple of the points you made to help clarify what I was saying and educate some of my fellow hunters. First the DNR's greed issue. I personally talked to the director of the DNR this last year for over a half an hour concerning the proposed increase in NR licences and how that would only increase nonresident land purchases, leasing and outfitters. During the whole conversation he couldn't get it through his head that increasing NR tags would be bad and result in a massive displacement of resident hunters. Ultimately causing way more revenue loss than it would gain. He just kept saying "if we sold another 10,000 NR tags at $300 that would be 3 million dollars we could use to buy more land for people to hunt on." This just told me that he REALLY didn't get it!!! Let me explain, three millon dollars sounds like a lot of money to most of us..right? That would be a lot of new public hunting land right? Well lets do the math 3,000,000 divided by the average land price per acre in Iowa in 2004 ($2,629) which equals 1,149 acres total of new public hunting land, now lets divide that by the number of counties in Iowa to be sure every one has a place to hunt, # counties in Iowa 99, that would mean that the DNR could buy 11.5 acres in each county for those displaced hunters. I hope if your hunting spot gets leased or bought you like being able to talk to your fellow bowhunters while sitting in the stand! Heck, you could shoot that big buck you are after while it is underneath the other guys stand and he is waiting for the deer to turn broadside. Now, just for fun lets say half of those 10,000 new NR hunters (5,000) want to use an outfitter or lease their own piece of land so they could hunt the whole season or multiple weekends? How many leased acres per hunter will it take to accomodate them? 10 acres?, 100 acres?, 250 acres?. If it took 10 acres that would be 50,000 new acres leased, 100 acres would be 500,000 new acres leased, and 250 acres would be 1,250,000 new acres leased. How many resident hunters would that displace? Could they all hunt on that 11.5 acres of new public hunting ground that was bought in each county (1,141 total in the state)? Don't think leasing on a large scale like this can happen? Try reading this article entitled Resident vs. Nonresident in the December 2005 Outdoorlife: http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/hunting/article/0,19912,1008520-3,00.html

On the issue of money for the survival for the DNR and the one CO per county. First the 1 CO. I would say that one CO per county is enough 357 days of the year. How did I get that figure? They need more help the three weekends during shotgun season and opening day pheasant season. That would be eight days a year. The rest of the year you have to admit the chance of a CO catching someone (in the act) breaking the law (poaching, shooting after hours, harvesting over limit, ect. is slim). The CO are much more likely to respond to a tip from another hunter that a violation has or is taking place. Self policing our sport is the way it should be! (What I am saying is call the CO if you see someone or hear about someone taking game illegally). The DNR could find plenty of extra money by cutting some of their vehicle expenditures alone. How many $30,000-$40,000 SUV's with DNR on them do you see driving around...and I'm not talking about the CO's(law-enforcement).

On the issue of outfitter lease fees ($10 per acre) I feel that is about right. Think about 2000 acres leased costs the outfitter $20,000 (outfitter license) plus what he is charged by landowner for the lease....lets say $15 per acre = $30,000. Ok, that is $50,000. So the outfitter charges $2,500 for a 6 day hunt, five hunters per week (one hunter per 400 acres per week) = $12,500 per week. If the outfitter books 5 guys per week and guides one group of bowhunters the last week of October(pre-rut hunt)Oct 22-28 then (rut hunts): Oct 29-Nov 4, Nov 5-11, Nov 12-18, Nov 19-25,(post-rut) Nov 26-Dec 2, Then takes first season shotgun hunter on 5 day hunt, then second season shotgun hunters on 6 day hunt and two groups of muzzleloaders. That is 10 groups of hunters at 12,500 per group= $125,000. $125,000-($50,000 fees) -($20,000 for food and lodging)=$55,000 for 2.5 months of guiding. Now think about groups like USO (United States Outfitters) that have literally millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of acres already leased in many states. Does that that $10 per lease acre fee for the outfitter license still sound high?

On bowhunting during the gun season I initially thought the same thing (gun hunters needing their own time, which I totally understand) or to have time off which I concede are great points. However, (and I add that this is not an agenda) I was just thinking of all the land that sits idle during the gun season (3 weeks) because it is owned by or reserved for bowhunters, as well as all the landowners I know with livestock or that just don't like the gun hunters and wont let them hunt. I just thought bowhunters hunting on that land would help decrease some santuaries and move some deer off of those properties(you know walking in and out, ect.). I have nothing against shotgun hunting because I have done it many times. Sorry if I came across as having an agenda or trying to encroach on the shotgunners. Just trying make suggestions.

In your example concerning going out West to big game hunt. I just want to remind you and everyone reading this that 2/3 of the western 11 states are owned by the Federal Government (National Forest, BLM, ect.). In other words it is owned by all of us so there will never be an issue of Outfitters or NR tieing up all the land because it is not in private hands. That is not the case in the midwest and especially not the case in Iowa.

I would also like to thank WJS for allowing us to give input. I feel that the DNR does a great job, however I know that they get pulled in many directions by Farm Bureau, the state legislature, lobbiest for insurance companies, their budget(pocket book) ect. I was born, raised, educated and reside in Iowa. I just get really worried about the next generation of Iowa kids from working class families not getting the opportunies I had as a kid. Like knocking on a landowners door, asking for permission to hunt, and being allowed to enjoy the day afield in the woods chasing squirels, rabbits, deer ect. I am convinced that increased NR licenses will lead to increased leasing, NR's buying and increased outfitter leasing, thus decreased access and ultimately leading to where only the wealthy can hunt. I am committed to doing everything in my power to see that this never happens and so should every Iowa resident. Call your representatives, senators, and if you have farm bureau insurance tell your agent that you are going to change agents if they don't stop pressuring the DNR and the legislature. Keep on the DNR because they were also pushing for the increased NR tags. The future of hunting for you, your children, and your grandchildren depends on it!!! Onces the flood gates have been opened you will never be able to go back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read the Outdoorlife article I mentioned above!
 
Iowaqdm,
I agree with most of you points, however, with the whole Farm Bureau agent point you tried to make...you are way off. 99.9% of the agents at Farm Bureau have no say so what so ever in deer hunting. My mom works at Farm Bureau so I have become acquainted with a number of the agents, and most of them deer hunt! They have nothing to do with all of hunting controversy that is going on. It is the people who are higher up in Farm Bureau that are doing the talking. All that the agents do is sell the insurance! It seems to me that some people from this website are jumping to conclusions about this whole Farm Bureau thing. It is a small percent of the employees at Farm Bureau who are doing the complaining! I guess you could compare it to when PETA makes a big deal out of one idiot poacher, and tries to make it sound like all huntes do it. Sure, some people are complaing, but the vast majority are just like you and I.
 
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