dbltree
Super Moderator
You bet! Usually they have a box just for that on the drill but check with whomever has the drill...
You bet! Usually they have a box just for that on the drill but check with whomever has the drill...
You bet! Usually they have a box just for that on the drill but check with whomever has the drill...
Yeah the one i rent has a small,fluffy and grain box on it. It has 7 inch row spacings was my only concern. If i am planting just for deer will the shorter row space affect the growth?
dbltree
Super Moderator
7" is a common spacing for soybeans...just adjust the planting rate to plant the correct amount per acre...roughly 140,000 to 180,000 seeds per acre...:way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
October 24th, 2011
Late October view of my "still fenced" soybeans...note the rye coming up between the rows, surrounding strips of the winter rye mix along side strips of white clover. Out of sight but within yards of the soybeans are more strips that also include strips of brassicas beside the strips of white clover and winter rye/oats/peas/ radish and red clover. In this view you can see the Real World soybeans marketed by Don Higgins on the right and the RR soybeans that I got free on the left. All did great and are ripe for the pickin' when I let the fence down next week.
Some observations so far this fall...where there is white clover and or rye beside the soybeans, deer are focusing on the green feed at this point but where there is no other food source...they are focusing on the soybeans already.
I recently had the opportunity to tour a farm while doing a consultation where the landowner had been following my threads for some time and had planted strips of white clover, strips of corn, strips of free RR ag soybeans (which he overseeded with GHFR) and he had planted one narrow strip of forage beans sandwiched in between all of these.
There had not been a killing frost in his area so the forage beans were still green and deer had grazed on some of them earlier but the bulk of them appeared untouched and as noted elsewhere, deer were focusing on the white clover. The combination of some white clover in or around regular RR early maturing soybeans is hard to beat and very economical for most landowners. In this case the forage radish had germinated and was doing well although in some areas a bit to thick but the forage beans were still green and it was not possible to overseed anything into those beans. Unfortunately the forage beans will freeze and die and become unpalatable to deer right during the most crucial period of the hunting season so use caution to purchase soybeans that will mature and dry down before hunting season n your area.
In the following pics...there is white clover just beyond the beans but it is very dormant because of the drought in our area. Still deer are feeding on the soybeans and then moving forward to nibble on the white clover that remains.
Soybeans are very attractive in late fall and early winter but like any crop it should not be the only food source. Be sure to incorporate other strips or blocks of corn, clover, rye or brassicas that together will provide year around food sources and allow for easy crop rotation and soil building....
Late October view of my "still fenced" soybeans...note the rye coming up between the rows, surrounding strips of the winter rye mix along side strips of white clover. Out of sight but within yards of the soybeans are more strips that also include strips of brassicas beside the strips of white clover and winter rye/oats/peas/ radish and red clover. In this view you can see the Real World soybeans marketed by Don Higgins on the right and the RR soybeans that I got free on the left. All did great and are ripe for the pickin' when I let the fence down next week.
Some observations so far this fall...where there is white clover and or rye beside the soybeans, deer are focusing on the green feed at this point but where there is no other food source...they are focusing on the soybeans already.
I recently had the opportunity to tour a farm while doing a consultation where the landowner had been following my threads for some time and had planted strips of white clover, strips of corn, strips of free RR ag soybeans (which he overseeded with GHFR) and he had planted one narrow strip of forage beans sandwiched in between all of these.
There had not been a killing frost in his area so the forage beans were still green and deer had grazed on some of them earlier but the bulk of them appeared untouched and as noted elsewhere, deer were focusing on the white clover. The combination of some white clover in or around regular RR early maturing soybeans is hard to beat and very economical for most landowners. In this case the forage radish had germinated and was doing well although in some areas a bit to thick but the forage beans were still green and it was not possible to overseed anything into those beans. Unfortunately the forage beans will freeze and die and become unpalatable to deer right during the most crucial period of the hunting season so use caution to purchase soybeans that will mature and dry down before hunting season n your area.
In the following pics...there is white clover just beyond the beans but it is very dormant because of the drought in our area. Still deer are feeding on the soybeans and then moving forward to nibble on the white clover that remains.
Soybeans are very attractive in late fall and early winter but like any crop it should not be the only food source. Be sure to incorporate other strips or blocks of corn, clover, rye or brassicas that together will provide year around food sources and allow for easy crop rotation and soil building....
dbltree
Super Moderator
Shatter Resistant Soybeans
Most soybeans grown for grain production are shatter resistant for obvious reasons because no farmer wants his soybeans dropping out onto the ground before or while combining like these beans...
It's also the last thing we want and perhaps even more important to us because we want a food source that lasts well into the winter and it's certainly not going to do us or our deer much good laying in the dirt and eventually in mud or covered with snow.
When choosing soybean seed be sure to choose varieties that will mature by early September in most of the mid west and are disease and shatter resistant. Talk to your seed supplier and ask questions and ask for university tests that compare grain yields so you can choose high yielding beans right for your area.
The seed from Don Higgins has proven to be shatter resistant and appears to be very high yielding along side the other RR grain type soybeans I planted this year, only 1 bag of free seed was not shatter resistant and no doubt a "reject" variety after testing.
Standing soybeans during the late season = deer magnet and I'm looking forward to hunting funnels leading to mine... :way:
Most soybeans grown for grain production are shatter resistant for obvious reasons because no farmer wants his soybeans dropping out onto the ground before or while combining like these beans...
It's also the last thing we want and perhaps even more important to us because we want a food source that lasts well into the winter and it's certainly not going to do us or our deer much good laying in the dirt and eventually in mud or covered with snow.
When choosing soybean seed be sure to choose varieties that will mature by early September in most of the mid west and are disease and shatter resistant. Talk to your seed supplier and ask questions and ask for university tests that compare grain yields so you can choose high yielding beans right for your area.
The seed from Don Higgins has proven to be shatter resistant and appears to be very high yielding along side the other RR grain type soybeans I planted this year, only 1 bag of free seed was not shatter resistant and no doubt a "reject" variety after testing.
Standing soybeans during the late season = deer magnet and I'm looking forward to hunting funnels leading to mine... :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
If I could only plant one...it would be white clover but you have to remember that deer are likely to switch from one crop to another at different times of the year.
Forages high in protein in the spring but grains high in energy and fat in the fall and there is no one crop or plant that will fill those needs all times of the year...hence the different crop combinations.
All of that being said....deer are opportunistic and given almost any food source in a safe feeding area and they will just stay and eat that....the minute that plot is empty however they will leave, so the "favorite" crop is the one that's always there.
I make sure I have a number of crop types that provide food sources year around in one place...THAT'S the crop(s) they like best! :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
November 3rd, 2011
I opened up the electric fence the other day and it didn't take long for them to figure out it was down...
The soybeans have been dry and ready for more then a month now but I wanted to save them for November
Several friends have been disappointed to find out that their late maturing forage beans however are about as attractive right now as rotten eggs. The still green soybeans froze and now are yellowing and in a completely useless stage...of ALL times...NOVEMBER!!
On the other hand those who planted early maturing ag soybeans are watching a field full of deer and very satisfied with their choice of soybeans. Nearly every one of them overseeded with winter rye, forage radish and red clover which not only will provide continued grazing all winter and into summer but also some fantastic soil building organic matter too boot....you can beat that with a stick! :way:
Interesting side note...I left the sides up and the fence on but watched deer after seer "slither" back and forth under it completely unaffected, just as I suspected...
I opened up the electric fence the other day and it didn't take long for them to figure out it was down...
The soybeans have been dry and ready for more then a month now but I wanted to save them for November
Several friends have been disappointed to find out that their late maturing forage beans however are about as attractive right now as rotten eggs. The still green soybeans froze and now are yellowing and in a completely useless stage...of ALL times...NOVEMBER!!
On the other hand those who planted early maturing ag soybeans are watching a field full of deer and very satisfied with their choice of soybeans. Nearly every one of them overseeded with winter rye, forage radish and red clover which not only will provide continued grazing all winter and into summer but also some fantastic soil building organic matter too boot....you can beat that with a stick! :way:
Interesting side note...I left the sides up and the fence on but watched deer after seer "slither" back and forth under it completely unaffected, just as I suspected...
dbltree
Super Moderator
November 8th, 2011
The weather is turning colder and whitetails are seeking out food sources high in fat and energy whenever they can which means that corn and soybeans are going to get a lot of attention right now.
Cams reveal that doe groups hit the soybeans nightly...
but they aren't the only ones...
This time of year bucks are interested less in feed however...
and the fat reserves they have stored up will be rapidly diminished this month
as they persistently pursue does coming into estrous
the only other time mature bucks are vulnerable is in the late season when rut weary bucks are driven to take risks simply out of hunger and more likely to make daylight appearances in fields such as those containing standing soybeans. This is the only time I hunt over food sources and even then only for a mature buck as they appear in the last few minutes of daylight.
I fully expected to harvest my target buck in this manner since he was almost completely nocturnal based on hundreds of trail cam photos over the past several years, but...a hot doe led him past my stand and to his demise. Once again I was blessed to take a truly mature animal from my own farm where he lived...and died...
The hunt and the history can be read in my Journal at this link:
Dbltree's Dream
Late December will still find me watching late season food sources with my muzzleloader but more then likely most of the "shooting" will be done with my camera....
The weather is turning colder and whitetails are seeking out food sources high in fat and energy whenever they can which means that corn and soybeans are going to get a lot of attention right now.
Cams reveal that doe groups hit the soybeans nightly...
but they aren't the only ones...
This time of year bucks are interested less in feed however...
and the fat reserves they have stored up will be rapidly diminished this month
as they persistently pursue does coming into estrous
the only other time mature bucks are vulnerable is in the late season when rut weary bucks are driven to take risks simply out of hunger and more likely to make daylight appearances in fields such as those containing standing soybeans. This is the only time I hunt over food sources and even then only for a mature buck as they appear in the last few minutes of daylight.
I fully expected to harvest my target buck in this manner since he was almost completely nocturnal based on hundreds of trail cam photos over the past several years, but...a hot doe led him past my stand and to his demise. Once again I was blessed to take a truly mature animal from my own farm where he lived...and died...
The hunt and the history can be read in my Journal at this link:
Dbltree's Dream
Late December will still find me watching late season food sources with my muzzleloader but more then likely most of the "shooting" will be done with my camera....
letemgrow
PMA Member
Hard to beat a story like that!! That is as close to farming deer as one can come. :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
November 22nd, 2011
A friend sent me a pic of his forage soybeans on 11-5-2011...killing freezes in late October killed these beans and rendered then 100% useless during the one the single most critical time of the year that we all wait for...the RUT!!
Fortunately he planted ag soybeans as well and was able to get free seed to boot and though they were planted side by side...deer ate the foliage of BOTH late maturing forage soybeans and early maturing ag beans all summer. He wisely had planted white clover around the perimeter of the plot and when I was there, the ag beans had dried down, the forage beans were still green and deer were focusing on the white clover!!
The forage beans did not draw deer from miles around nor cause them to grow ginormous racks but because he grows a combination of crops that allow him to feed deer year around, the deer on his property are becoming adapted to feeding there. he overseeded the ag beans with GHFR which did fabulous!
When soybeans freeze and die they take far longer to dry down then ag beans that do so because they are bred too and September is far warmer and drier then November so forage beans can easily take a month before the beans themselves will dry and be palatable to whitetails.
let's take a look at the same time period (early to mid November...prime rut period) and see what deer think of common ag beans??
Whitetails are flocking to these soybeans for the GRAIN and of course bucks seeking does they know will be there
If you are interested in growing soybeans as part of your habitat management program, I urge you to utilize white clover as the chief element for high quality, high protein forage and early maturing ag soybeans for a fall source of high energy grain. Plant them in the same field and if possible in strips or blocks that include brassicas which will allow you to rotate the soybeans and brassicas. Over seed the early maturing ag soybeans in late August with 50-150#'s of winter rye and 5-10#'s of Groundhog forage radish to maximize the use of your plot (you cannot do this with forage beans)
RR soybeans are not for everyone and can easily be wiped out in small fields but where possible they can be an economical and easy to grow food source that will be very attractive in November and December... :way:
A friend sent me a pic of his forage soybeans on 11-5-2011...killing freezes in late October killed these beans and rendered then 100% useless during the one the single most critical time of the year that we all wait for...the RUT!!
Fortunately he planted ag soybeans as well and was able to get free seed to boot and though they were planted side by side...deer ate the foliage of BOTH late maturing forage soybeans and early maturing ag beans all summer. He wisely had planted white clover around the perimeter of the plot and when I was there, the ag beans had dried down, the forage beans were still green and deer were focusing on the white clover!!
The forage beans did not draw deer from miles around nor cause them to grow ginormous racks but because he grows a combination of crops that allow him to feed deer year around, the deer on his property are becoming adapted to feeding there. he overseeded the ag beans with GHFR which did fabulous!
When soybeans freeze and die they take far longer to dry down then ag beans that do so because they are bred too and September is far warmer and drier then November so forage beans can easily take a month before the beans themselves will dry and be palatable to whitetails.
let's take a look at the same time period (early to mid November...prime rut period) and see what deer think of common ag beans??
Whitetails are flocking to these soybeans for the GRAIN and of course bucks seeking does they know will be there
If you are interested in growing soybeans as part of your habitat management program, I urge you to utilize white clover as the chief element for high quality, high protein forage and early maturing ag soybeans for a fall source of high energy grain. Plant them in the same field and if possible in strips or blocks that include brassicas which will allow you to rotate the soybeans and brassicas. Over seed the early maturing ag soybeans in late August with 50-150#'s of winter rye and 5-10#'s of Groundhog forage radish to maximize the use of your plot (you cannot do this with forage beans)
RR soybeans are not for everyone and can easily be wiped out in small fields but where possible they can be an economical and easy to grow food source that will be very attractive in November and December... :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
December 1st, 2011
Whitetails love soybeans...that much is true....
(time stamp not correct on this cam)
Are soybeans worth the hassle of fencing however? Given alternatives in the same feeding area where deer are adapted to feeding do soybeans really make a difference?
My standing soybeans have nearly 2 acres of the rye/oats/peas/radish/red clover combo planted around them and the beans themselves are overseeded with straight rye at 150#'s per acre.
The beans are ag beans and real World soybeans from Don Higgins, all high yielding, high quality soybeans that did very well and very attractive at this point.
A close look at the rye in the beans reveals that deer are grazing the rye while literally standing knee deep in soybeans...which is the whole idea of course, to provide "green and grain" in one area, maximizing the yield or amount of feed we can produce off from a given acre.
Still....one might assume that deer would not eat the rye until the beans were gone and they were...desperate, so to speak. This is the rye combination planted immediately adjacent to the standing soybeans and it is quite literally grazed to the dirt.
Just beyond the beans is 1 1/2 acres of the rye/oat/pea/radish/clover mix and deer were filling up that field as I stood near the soybeans checking a trail cam. One would think they would ignore the rye for the beans yet obviously that is not the case
I don't want to imply that deer are not eating the soybeans because they certainly are
but it as is the case with almost any and all crops i plant for whitetails...it's not because they prefer beans, it's just because they are there...and deer are not stupid....they are opportunistic and take advantage of any food source that is close to safe bedding.
I have 600 pics from the this cam in 5 days....and they reveal the truth, they tell the story that observation alone does not because it's there 24/7. So despite a field full of ripe, beautiful soybeans....deer are grazing the rye combo all night long
and these pictures reveal deer standing in the soybeans (we'll assume they are eating the beans)
then LEAVING the soybeans to eat the rye combination and even the Alice white clover beside the rye
Some points to be aware of...NEW plots where deer are not yet adapted to feeding can sometimes be a wildcard the first year. Depending on deer numbers activity is not always the greatest until deer adapt to feeding there.
Farms that have 30% cover and 70% food sources (ag and plots combined) are going to give deer so much food that they are unlikely to concentrate on any one food source. Our goals were possible should (in general) be 10% food and 90% cover..the more ag crops there are the more scattered the deer will be as they feed on the combined fields and the more frustrating the landowner will be.
All of that being said...and deer area adapted to feeding in one centralized feeding area (not soybeans in one field and rye in another 300 yards away) then they will adapt to feeding on whatever you plant for them. Soybeans are certainly an attractive food source but for many this may require expensive fencing which then may be high maintenance compared to a 3 way crop rotation of white clover/brassicas and the rye combination mentioned here.
We all want the edge, that much is true...but often we are only fooling ourselves about how to get to that point. We spend insane amounts of money on "buck on a bag seed", fencing soybeans, arguing with others over which crop they like better....and NONE of that is necessary.
If you want the edge...provide the greatest amount of the thickest nastiest cover you can, plant your food sources in a safe centralized feeding area, where possible convert crop lands to CRP/NWSG to increase cover and lower the amount of feed available and then....the results will be far more positive then anything else you have ever done....
Whitetails love soybeans...that much is true....
(time stamp not correct on this cam)
Are soybeans worth the hassle of fencing however? Given alternatives in the same feeding area where deer are adapted to feeding do soybeans really make a difference?
My standing soybeans have nearly 2 acres of the rye/oats/peas/radish/red clover combo planted around them and the beans themselves are overseeded with straight rye at 150#'s per acre.
The beans are ag beans and real World soybeans from Don Higgins, all high yielding, high quality soybeans that did very well and very attractive at this point.
A close look at the rye in the beans reveals that deer are grazing the rye while literally standing knee deep in soybeans...which is the whole idea of course, to provide "green and grain" in one area, maximizing the yield or amount of feed we can produce off from a given acre.
Still....one might assume that deer would not eat the rye until the beans were gone and they were...desperate, so to speak. This is the rye combination planted immediately adjacent to the standing soybeans and it is quite literally grazed to the dirt.
Just beyond the beans is 1 1/2 acres of the rye/oat/pea/radish/clover mix and deer were filling up that field as I stood near the soybeans checking a trail cam. One would think they would ignore the rye for the beans yet obviously that is not the case
I don't want to imply that deer are not eating the soybeans because they certainly are
but it as is the case with almost any and all crops i plant for whitetails...it's not because they prefer beans, it's just because they are there...and deer are not stupid....they are opportunistic and take advantage of any food source that is close to safe bedding.
I have 600 pics from the this cam in 5 days....and they reveal the truth, they tell the story that observation alone does not because it's there 24/7. So despite a field full of ripe, beautiful soybeans....deer are grazing the rye combo all night long
and these pictures reveal deer standing in the soybeans (we'll assume they are eating the beans)
then LEAVING the soybeans to eat the rye combination and even the Alice white clover beside the rye
Some points to be aware of...NEW plots where deer are not yet adapted to feeding can sometimes be a wildcard the first year. Depending on deer numbers activity is not always the greatest until deer adapt to feeding there.
Farms that have 30% cover and 70% food sources (ag and plots combined) are going to give deer so much food that they are unlikely to concentrate on any one food source. Our goals were possible should (in general) be 10% food and 90% cover..the more ag crops there are the more scattered the deer will be as they feed on the combined fields and the more frustrating the landowner will be.
All of that being said...and deer area adapted to feeding in one centralized feeding area (not soybeans in one field and rye in another 300 yards away) then they will adapt to feeding on whatever you plant for them. Soybeans are certainly an attractive food source but for many this may require expensive fencing which then may be high maintenance compared to a 3 way crop rotation of white clover/brassicas and the rye combination mentioned here.
We all want the edge, that much is true...but often we are only fooling ourselves about how to get to that point. We spend insane amounts of money on "buck on a bag seed", fencing soybeans, arguing with others over which crop they like better....and NONE of that is necessary.
If you want the edge...provide the greatest amount of the thickest nastiest cover you can, plant your food sources in a safe centralized feeding area, where possible convert crop lands to CRP/NWSG to increase cover and lower the amount of feed available and then....the results will be far more positive then anything else you have ever done....
impactarcher
Member
Dbltree, I'm faced with the question of whether or not I want to mess with planting soybeans and the hassle of fencing them off in 2012. Part of me says yes plant them simply for the variety and the other part of me says save the time and money for something else. That being said, I see your still planting soybeans despite your love for the brassica mix and cereal mix! Why is that? If they require so much more ork and the deer don't prefer them anyways can you tell me a good reason why you still plant them and fence them? Just curious.
dbltree
Super Moderator
These are teaching threads so I do all kinds of things I don't have to so I can test, compare and share the results to help others make choices that are right for them. To say you don't need soybeans is not enough I must prove that so people reading this can have confidence in what I share. Note it is not about the type of food but rather the type of cover surrounding the feed.
2bowhunt
Member
I have two 1 acre plots seperated by a creek. My question is, can I effectively rotate soybeans(overseeded with rye) and brassicas? And if so, how much N would you recommend for the brassica plot? I would also be open to other ideas of what to plant for an early bow season/late season crop rotation. Thanks
dbltree
Super Moderator
You can rotate soybeans and brassicas but you only gain about 30 credits of nitrogen from the beans to be used by the brassicas so you'll need to add roughly 150#'s of urea to provide enough N.
I like to rotate rye/red clover with brassicas because the red clover not only provides up to 130#'s of N credits but also feeds deer until I till it under for brassicas.
Whatever you decide I also suggest you add some white clover to each plot, plant a strip around the outside, odd areas and such. White clover is a critical element in achieving our goals of year around food sources and thereby adapting deer to always coming to ONE place to feed (even if thatone place is divided by a creek or draw)
dbltree
Super Moderator
Yes...otherwise you will never adapt deer to coming to ONE place year around!
December 19th, 2011
Soybeans can be a great attractant during the late season but each landowner considering beans should be aware they have drawbacks. They may look great from a distance
but up close you may find they are shattering
and dumping the beans onto the ground
A good crop of brassicas can help you assure you have a continued food source and/or replace the soybeans altogether
Deer can strip several acres of beans within weeks depending on deer densities of course so keep this in mind when planning your feeding area and food sources.
When the snow flies they will beat a path to standing soybeans or corn
That said I would remind everyone that last year in this same field there were just as many if not more deer feeding on strips of brassicas and the rye combination.
These deer are not here because they find soybeans irresistible but rather because they are adapted to coming to this field where they have a combination of food sources to keep them fed year around.
In every plot there is white clover and brassicas in addition to soybeans overseeded with winter rye
The plots are surrounded by quality bedding and screened from outside interference, so the deer you see in these pictures will be here regardless of what combination of food sources we plant.
Deer are opportunistic and will readily take advantage of any food source available to them but in many cases they may be so adapted to feeding in neighboring crop fields it will take time to adapt them to your feeding area.
Soybeans can be a useful tool but never make it about one crop and never dilute the usefulness of crops by planting multiple plots all over your farm. Plant one centralized feeding area and utilize a combination of crops that in turn keep deer fed year around. Soybeans alone are incapable of doing this as is corn, so utilize clovers adapted to your area as well as crops like brassicas and winter rye/oats/peas/radish and red clover..ALL planted in the same field...and soon you too will adapt deer to always coming there and your hunting success will improve markedly..... :way:
IQDM
New Member
DT, is the reason for only one centralized plot so that it is easier to hunt? If I had strip plots in 3 different areas as opposed to 1 would the only negative be diluted hunting? Or is there other negatives? On the todem pole of a deer herd, the lower deer get pushed around quite a bit... what are your thoughts on social stress or pressure when 50 deer try to pile into a single 5 acre plot? I certainly agree with a centralized food plot... I am just wondering why only one if there is another area that would work or if your property does not allow for a central location?