Shotgun hunting observation

[IowaBowHunter1983]

I spend alot time driving around during shotgun just making sure folks are behaving. Went into several food joints with groups there.

The average shotgun hunter is 50+ year old. I see younger guys here and there but for most part, the groups are aging.

I think a part of it is access. The number of farms that allow groups hunting gets smaller by the year. Beyond that I think younger generation hunts differently. More sitting, more management, etc.

Thoughts and observations?

 

[Matthewfox_45]

That’s an interesting observation Rob. My group is younger….im the oldest at 44. Also, there’s only 4 of us. We do one push a season, and it’s on the neighbors property, my brother in laws farm is only 130 acres, sitting makes way more sense.

 

[newfarmer]

I’ve noticed here- it’s the older dads (60+) with the sons, sometimes grandkids but typically once the old man says he is done- the groups quit as everyone wants to just sit or just don’t go. I know of only one group with multiple 30 year olds, and that group is very “techy” and very picky. But also here- most of the groups switched from shotgun to Late Muzzy- and I have more late muzzy groups to worry about versus shotgun. They have literally said since they never see the DNR while out late muzzy it makes more sense- fishy right.

 

[Muskrat24]

Rob you bring up a point that I have thought about for a few years and concerns me in many ways. In no way am I blaming anyone but we are our own worst enemies when it comes to the long term viability of all types of hunting/trapping. As more and more landowners and hunters limit access to land to control THEIR deer it limits the younger hunters’ ability to take an interest in the sport. GREATLY fueled by the age of electronics and misguided expectations influenced by SM and TV deer. The generation that you observed still remember the days when Iowa deer drives were a tradition. I see very few groups anymore. 20 years ago a couple buddies and I would drive around during Saturdays of shotgun seasons to see all the big bucks getting bumped out by groups pushing, now only a couple groups in the area. As we have transitioned to limited access and fewer deer, the managers have gotten even more restrictive on access to save their deer. We should all be concerned about the future of this sport as by percentage there are fewer hunters which means more of a minority interest for our elected officials to represent and less votes. Yes, I am sure the younger hunters are likely forced into and/or choose to sit and manage now but more restricted access forces that hand. Just FYI a GENERAL observation MO has all but forgotten deer drives during rifle season. 25 years ago in my teens groups pushing almost every section, none now other than a random ditch or thicket with a few hunters. I know of one group in MO still doing big drives. I only bow hunt and feel sitting allows for being more selective, your original observation is correct and traditional deer party drives will be all but gone when those 50 yo plus hunters give it up, IMO. Good post.

 

[Bucksnbears]

Up untill about 15 years ago, our " many" riverbottoms were so orange it was blinding.

Nowadays, I can drive MILES and not see a speck.

Opening day used to sound like WW2. Doubt I heard 25 shots throughout the whole season this year.

I did not see one youngster out hunting. (Disturbing).

I'm not sure how we're gonna handle our deer population in the future with so very few out hunting.

 

[Hawk32]

My group of 10/11 is pretty much all young guys except 3 of us that have been in the group and on the same properties for over 30 years. The rest of the group is younger guys all with young boys from 5-12 years old. All of which tagged along at some point this year. 3 of the older ones shot their first deer. 2 sitting with their dads and one sitting with his grandpa. Grandpa, who owns the farm we were on was as happy as the boy. Sunday afternoon there was 10 little boys (all cousins) tagging along. All of them had a blast. It was like Xmas for them.

 

[Hardwood11]

I hunted the first season. We heard very few shots. I doubt there was a hunter within a mile from me . I saw one other truck parked in the 2 sections by me…

There was standing corn to my north and the deer were definitely in there ! We saw a bunch of deer there the night before the season .

It was then 63 degrees and windy the first two days… So very little activity.

I’d say a blessing as the bucks & does survived and it looks like they will have a fairly easy winter !

 

[booneriverbucks]

On a related note…. Has anybody ever thought of how our love of bowhunting and other forms of hunting may not be not be as pure as we think? Every year I just can’t help but look at the amount of money,time and effort I put into bowhunting while other forms of hunting seem so much simpler. It’s almost like an entire industry looked at us all and saw us as suckers that could be sold products over three months while those old dudes that got only 5-9 days to hunt get by with very little invested. Makes me wonder. I love all seasons but have that thought every now and then.

 

[sep0667]

On a related note…. Has anybody ever thought of how our love of bowhunting and other forms of hunting may not be not be as pure as we think? Every year I just can’t help but look at the amount of money,time and effort I put into bowhunting while other forms of hunting seem so much simpler. It’s almost like an entire industry looked at us all and saw us as suckers that could be sold products over three months while those old dudes that got only 5-9 days to hunt get by with very little invested. Makes me wonder. I love all seasons but have that thought every now and then.

yep. ive sat there and start to add everything up while in the stand. Sticks, stand, lifeline, bowhanger, pack, boots, base layers, outlayers, gloves, waist mit, neck gator, stocking cap, harness, binos, range finder, release, broadheads, arrows, sight, arrow rest, quiver, grunt call, rattle, boot blankets. Just sitting there in that moment can easily be several thousand dollars. But then I remember how long ive had a lot of this stuff, most of it 10+ years, so its definitely got its use out of. If you take care of things much of it can about last you a lifetime. I find myself getting annoyed when I get ready at how much crap I take in/out everytime.

But, no one is making us buy all that, you can just easily go the cheap route. Just use used equipment and hunt out of a couple naturally made blinds/brush pile etc like I did when I started.

I've gone with a group the past four years now first season gun, theres about 12-14 of us. Its mostly older guys that are about aged out, once they are done the group will be done as they are the ones with the access to the properties we go. Driving to/from I dont recall ever seeing other groups out, hardly even pass another vehicle with someone wearing orange.

In one way it sad to see the groups end, it is fun, but in another it should help the age structure for sure I would think.

 

[Hardwood11]

On a related note…. Has anybody ever thought of how our love of bowhunting and other forms of hunting may not be not be as pure as we think? Every year I just can’t help but look at the amount of money,time and effort I put into bowhunting while other forms of hunting seem so much simpler. It’s almost like an entire industry looked at us all and saw us as suckers that could be sold products over three months while those old dudes that got only 5-9 days to hunt get by with very little invested. Makes me wonder. I love all seasons but have that thought every now and then.

Yes, but bow hunting is fun!

 

[Sligh1]

On a related note…. Has anybody ever thought of how our love of bowhunting and other forms of hunting may not be not be as pure as we think? Every year I just can’t help but look at the amount of money,time and effort I put into bowhunting while other forms of hunting seem so much simpler. It’s almost like an entire industry looked at us all and saw us as suckers that could be sold products over three months while those old dudes that got only 5-9 days to hunt get by with very little invested. Makes me wonder. I love all seasons but have that thought every now and then.

absolutely!!! Even this sport of deer hunting!!!…. “How much do u think u spend per lbs of venison?!?!?!” OH MY GOSH!!!…. Lemme put it this way…. I probably could eat freshly flown in lobster & caviar for breakfast lunch & dinner for what venison costs me! It’s crazy. & ya, my hunting season (with all the work) is probably 330-ish days a year. U probably have a point with 5-9 days into hunting.
Another crazy thought…. Say it’s 330 days x 8 hours (probably a LOT more than that!!!) is 2,640 hours. Add maybe 200 hours of hunting…. 2,840 hours or 170,400 minutes per year to top the experience off with a hunt that usually comes down to what????? 1-5 MINUTES?!?!
& I still wouldn’t change a thing!!!

 

[booneriverbucks]

absolutely!!! Even this sport of deer hunting!!!…. “How much do u think u spend per lbs of venison?!?!?!” OH MY GOSH!!!…. Lemme put it this way…. I probably could eat freshly flown in lobster & caviar for breakfast lunch & dinner for what venison costs me! It’s crazy. & ya, my hunting season (with all the work) is probably 330-ish days a year. U probably have a point with 5-9 days into hunting.
Another crazy thought…. Say it’s 330 days x 8 hours (probably a LOT more than that!!!) is 2,640 hours. Add maybe 200 hours of hunting…. 2,840 hours or 170,400 minutes per year to top the experience off with a hunt that usually comes down to what????? 1-5 MINUTES?!?!
& I still wouldn’t change a thing!!!

Haha. Sometimes it’s best to not actually do the math!


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[Handcannon]

Just a few things I observe.

The expense of the equipment, clothing etc for a young hunter to start is crazy these days. And very few even know where to begin w/ top dollar products shoved in their face constantly. Nobody wants to look poor by buying cheaper functional equipment. Even harder when they don't have any relatives that hunt.

Liability. Land owners & insurance companies are not wanting to take the risk. Access is getting hard to get. Lots of animal lover landowners that don't understand conservation & why we hunt/fish.

In my county on the western side of the state, IDNR figures 4 deer per square mile. Who wants to hunt/fish where there aren't any? That's why I've gone to other parts of the state to hunt deer, for the last 12 years. And haven't bow hunted for the last 3 years (100+ hours in a tree looking at the same 5 deer is not fun). Orange army doesn't exist anymore here...certainly for second season.

Major loss of habitat. Every tree line, drainage ditch, fence line & etc has been disappearing rapidly in the last 10 years.

Multiple droughts, EHD, CWD, lack of desire from the youth, lack of being able to communicate with landowners due to way too much screen time & not knowing how to converse with everyday people.

 

[NextBuk]

It's definitely become "pay to play" and it's only getting worse. The drive for bigger and bigger bucks and in higher frequency has lead to this. The "olden days" found lots more in the field, doing drives, etc etc, but not as many giants were being killed as nowadays. There is a trade-off, as we all know. Allow groups to drive your farms and more people will hunt but fewer big bucks will reside on the farm, and success will decline. Those that figured this out are the reason land is locked up and or a premium ($$) to hunt. I'm glad other forms of hunting, like pheasant hunting or squirrel hunting, don't distinguish trophies by their size or feather count or color (whatever)... our egos would push those industries towards deer hunting too. We are headed towards an elitist system of hunting much like already exists in Europe. Sad but true.

On the other hand, if there really are fewer and fewer and fewer hunters every year, wouldn't it make sense that at some point access would become easier and easier again?

@Handcannon - all good points for sure! My example: my son has 2 weeks off for college break. We've been wanting to trap some beavers on a couple spots but are still waiting on the landowner to respond with the liability waiver that he insists we sign before accessing. Sadly, we'll probably miss the window of opportunity waiting on this.

 

[deerhunter93]

It's definitely become "pay to play" and it's only getting worse. The drive for bigger and bigger bucks and in higher frequency has lead to this. The "olden days" found lots more in the field, doing drives, etc etc, but not as many giants were being killed as nowadays. There is a trade-off, as we all know. Allow groups to drive your farms and more people will hunt but fewer big bucks will reside on the farm, and success will decline. Those that figured this out are the reason land is locked up and or a premium ($$) to hunt. I'm glad other forms of hunting, like pheasant hunting or squirrel hunting, don't distinguish trophies by their size or feather count or color (whatever)... our egos would push those industries towards deer hunting too. We are headed towards an elitist system of hunting much like already exists in Europe. Sad but true.

On the other hand, if there really are fewer and fewer and fewer hunters every year, wouldn't it make sense that at some point access would become easier and easier again?

I agree with all of these points unfortunately. I don't think it matters that there are fewer hunters these days, access will always be an issue.

If people want to kill big bucks they will do anything and everything to make that happen. And I don't care what others think or say, it's absolutely a rich mans sport. Not too long ago your average hunter probably only hunted one or two pieces. They didn't have the time or desire to scout a bunch and locate big deer to chase. They were happy hunting whatever they could and filling their tag on a nice buck. These trophy hunting days, especially due to cell cameras, guys don't think twice about tying up 10, 15, 20 farms and running dozens of cell cameras in order to locate the biggest buck and hunt him. 15 years ago there may have been 30 guys hunting those 10, 20, 30 farms but these days it may just be a couple guys.

 

[Earnhardt]

I agree with all of these points unfortunately. I don't think it matters that there are fewer hunters these days, access will always be an issue.

If people want to kill big bucks they will do anything and everything to make that happen. And I don't care what others think or say, it's absolutely a rich mans sport. Not too long ago your average hunter probably only hunted one or two pieces. They didn't have the time or desire to scout a bunch and locate big deer to chase. They were happy hunting whatever they could and filling their tag on a nice buck. These trophy hunting days, especially due to cell cameras, guys don't think twice about tying up 10, 15, 20 farms and running dozens of cell cameras in order to locate the biggest buck and hunt him. 15 years ago there may have been 30 guys hunting those 10, 20, 30 farms but these days it may just be a couple guys.

You sir, have won the Internet for the year with this post! Thank you!


"These trophy hunting days, especially due to cell cameras, guys don't think twice about tying up 10, 15, 20 farms and running dozens of cell cameras in order to locate the biggest buck and hunt him. 15 years ago there may have been 30 guys hunting those 10, 20, 30 farms but these days it may just be a couple guys."

This is ruining hunting opportunities everywhere...

 

[Sligh1]

Tough direction on some of these things. Think of iowa 20-25 years ago…. Could get permission on “lots of places”. Lots of deer. Not a ton of archery competition/pressure. The whole state had mature bucks in pretty many any average situation. The NR draw was every year to every other year. A lot of guys deer seasons were 3-4 days (usually gun season & done for many).

Fast forward 20-25 years…. Half the deer. Way more competition. Masses of people fleeing their broken states to come here … 5-6 year wait & growing for archery tag. 2-3x commodity prices (regions dozed out or CRP taken out). Guys hunting 15-30 days a year & hunting far more seasons with far more lethal equipment & technology. Im not anti-technology at all…. At same time, a deer 25 years ago is the same as a deer today - they haven’t changed but our tools to kill them & outsmart them have. Right wrong or Indifferent.
25 years ago, “every Joe Schmo” could have access to quality hunting & mature bucks. Now, the good land is sold, tied up or the average guy is left hunting the scraps - which further degrades those tracts. One could argue that 25 years ago u could get on “lots of mature bucks” with a few permission farms. Now, the equivalent, if it’s your desire, owning a lot of acres or leasing or getting access to 15-20 farms like above says. & I do know dudes with no $ that spend the time & work to cast that wide net so they can get on a mature buck.
One thing u won’t change: desire & willingness to “do what it takes” for quality hunting & experiences. $ or not- it’s achievable but getting harder. We did it in young broke years by DRIVING. Going to where no people were. Didn’t cost much- just lot of time & work. Now, it’s even harder & fewer places. People flee whole states because they have been ruined.
The ONLY solution is the lift the whole system up. Much like iowa was 25 years ago. Make it so the average parcel has more quality deer & experiences. Without fixing the whole system & lifting the resource up- any debate or discussion is futile at improving anything except for the top tier wealthy or capable or willing….
Until some other states in Midwest change- iowa will still be a major target as it’s still so much better than its neighbors. MN, WI, MI, MO, NE, IL & a few others need to make a few changes. If they did- it would lift all the Midwest up…. It would make for a fire sale of NR iowa land as they would Say “oh, xyz state is better than iowa & has 2-5 times more habitat & deer” or “my home state is actually great, I don’t need to flee it”.
We cannot sustain having the few best farms being where the quality is. Guys that have to fight the regs to insulate so they can create a quality experience. Must come from REGULATION CHANGES, period, end of story. For IOWA: the first & “easiest” thing to fix is increasing our deer population. That’s #1. That tied Will lift all boats & needs to happen across state in regions that are hurting. Then we get to XYZ next issue.

other states, NOT iowa but with more premium habitat, deer, mix or ag/timber…. A couple have to wake up to moving gun out of the rut. Maybe putting crossguns in their own season. 1 buck. Remove bait. Put a limit on how many NR’s hunt their states (especially if those states have problems for residents getting access). A combo of some of these. Iowa & maybe a couple other states can’t be the only last “great places” that are currently hurting deeply. We can’t ruin the last great places. We need to fix the last great places & support our neighbors to fix their broken systems so they can be a high quality state as well…. The recipe is there, this is not complex. Iowa doesn’t have this patented. We’ll fix Iowa’s issues & there’s some folks in every state that need to keep pushing to bring common sense to their regulations. There’s no other option …. Easy to see the outcome of either path the people choose

 

[Butch973]

Tough direction on some of these things. Think of iowa 20-25 years ago…. Could get permission on “lots of places”. Lots of deer. Not a ton of archery competition/pressure. The whole state had mature bucks in pretty many any average situation. The NR draw was every year to every other year. A lot of guys deer seasons were 3-4 days (usually gun season & done for many).

Fast forward 20-25 years…. Half the deer. Way more competition. Masses of people fleeing their broken states to come here … 5-6 year wait & growing for archery tag. Guys hunting 15-30 days a year & hunting far more seasons with far more lethal equipment & technology. Im not anti-technology at all…. At same time, a deer 25 years ago is the same as a deer today - they haven’t changed but our tools to kill them & outsmart them have. Right wrong or Indifferent.
25 years ago, “every Joe Schmo” could have access to quality hunting & mature bucks. Now, the good land is sold, tied up or the average guy is left hunting the scraps - which further degrades those tracts. One could argue that 25 years ago u could get on “lots of mature bucks” with a few permission farms. Now, the equivalent, if it’s your desire, owning a lot of acres or leasing or getting access to 15-20 farms like above says. & I do know dudes with no $ that spend the time & work to cast that wide net so they can get on a mature buck.
One thing u won’t change: desire & willingness to “do what it takes” for quality hunting & experiences. $ or not- it’s achievable but getting harder. We did it in young broke years by DRIVING. Going to where no people were. Didn’t cost much- just lot of time & work. Now, it’s even harder & fewer places. People flee whole states because they have been ruined.
The ONLY solution is the lift the whole system up. Much like iowa was 25 years ago. Make it so the average parcel has more quality deer & experiences. Without fixing the whole system & lifting the resource up- any debate or discussion is futile at improving anything except for the top tier wealthy or capable or willing….
Until some other states in Midwest change- iowa will still be a major target as it’s still so much better than its neighbors. MN, WI, MI, MO, NE, IL & a few others need to make a few changes. If they did- it would lift all the Midwest up…. It would make for a fire sale of NR iowa land as they would Say “oh, xyz state is better than iowa & has 2-5 times more habitat & deer” or “my home state is actually great, I don’t need to flee it”.
We cannot sustain having the few best farms being where the quality is. Guys that have to fight the regs to insulate so they can create a quality experience. Must come from REGULATION CHANGES, period, end of story. For IOWA: the first & “easiest” thing to fix is increasing our deer population. That’s #1. That tied Will lift all boats & needs to happen across state in regions that are hurting. Then we get to XYZ next issue.

other states, NOT iowa but with more premium habitat, deer, mix or ag/timber…. A couple have to wake up to moving gun out of the rut. Maybe putting crossguns in their own season. 1 buck. Remove bait. Put a limit on how many NR’s hunt their states (especially if those states have problems for residents getting access). A combo of some of these. Iowa & maybe a couple other states can’t be the only last “great places” that are currently hurting deeply. We can’t ruin the last great places. We need to fix the last great places & support our neighbors to fix their broken systems.

Are any bills gonna be introduced on the offensive side of things or is it gonna be another year of playing defense this year? I know one of the sportsman’s groups was taking a survey earlier in the year.

 

[Sligh1]

Are any bills gonna be introduced on the offensive side of things or is it gonna be another year of playing defense this year? I know one of the sportsman’s groups was taking a survey earlier in the year.

Yes, there’s offense on several fronts. There’s also been a lot accomplished already.
I do think we will get some relief on killing deer. We probably dial back killing. A better path on the cwd issue (not handling with just testing or doing the crazy things other states have). We likely will get some relief & tools on EHD front…. Too many are waking up to how devastating it is. There’s a lot to list & few things I’ll leave off but…. More is being done or has been done offensively than ever before in this states history. On defense: same…. We will have more defense than EVER before. Top tier offense + defense = a force of the people for the resource, far more desirable & righteous outcomes. I’ll say this…. The offense & defense of today… it’ll be better in a year from now. & the year after that, better than previous. It’s gonna keep getting better- there’s no doubt in my mind.

 

[booneriverbucks]

Tough direction on some of these things. Think of iowa 20-25 years ago…. Could get permission on “lots of places”. Lots of deer. Not a ton of archery competition/pressure. The whole state had mature bucks in pretty many any average situation. The NR draw was every year to every other year. A lot of guys deer seasons were 3-4 days (usually gun season & done for many).

Fast forward 20-25 years…. Half the deer. Way more competition. Masses of people fleeing their broken states to come here … 5-6 year wait & growing for archery tag. Guys hunting 15-30 days a year & hunting far more seasons with far more lethal equipment & technology. Im not anti-technology at all…. At same time, a deer 25 years ago is the same as a deer today - they haven’t changed but our tools to kill them & outsmart them have. Right wrong or Indifferent.
25 years ago, “every Joe Schmo” could have access to quality hunting & mature bucks. Now, the good land is sold, tied up or the average guy is left hunting the scraps - which further degrades those tracts. One could argue that 25 years ago u could get on “lots of mature bucks” with a few permission farms. Now, the equivalent, if it’s your desire, owning a lot of acres or leasing or getting access to 15-20 farms like above says. & I do know dudes with no $ that spend the time & work to cast that wide net so they can get on a mature buck.
One thing u won’t change: desire & willingness to “do what it takes” for quality hunting & experiences. $ or not- it’s achievable but getting harder. We did it in young broke years by DRIVING. Going to where no people were. Didn’t cost much- just lot of time & work. Now, it’s even harder & fewer places. People flee whole states because they have been ruined.
The ONLY solution is the lift the whole system up. Much like iowa was 25 years ago. Make it so the average parcel has more quality deer & experiences. Without fixing the whole system & lifting the resource up- any debate or discussion is futile at improving anything except for the top tier wealthy or capable or willing….
Until some other states in Midwest change- iowa will still be a major target as it’s still so much better than its neighbors. MN, WI, MI, MO, NE, IL & a few others need to make a few changes. If they did- it would lift all the Midwest up…. It would make for a fire sale of NR iowa land as they would Say “oh, xyz state is better than iowa & has 2-5 times more habitat & deer” or “my home state is actually great, I don’t need to flee it”.
We cannot sustain having the few best farms being where the quality is. Guys that have to fight the regs to insulate so they can create a quality experience. Must come from REGULATION CHANGES, period, end of story. For IOWA: the first & “easiest” thing to fix is increasing our deer population. That’s #1. That tied Will lift all boats & needs to happen across state in regions that are hurting. Then we get to XYZ next issue.

other states, NOT iowa but with more premium habitat, deer, mix or ag/timber…. A couple have to wake up to moving gun out of the rut. Maybe putting crossguns in their own season. 1 buck. Remove bait. Put a limit on how many NR’s hunt their states (especially if those states have problems for residents getting access). A combo of some of these. Iowa & maybe a couple other states can’t be the only last “great places” that are currently hurting deeply. We can’t ruin the last great places. We need to fix the last great places & support our neighbors to fix their broken systems so they can be a high quality state as well…. The recipe is there, this is not complex. Iowa doesn’t have this patented. We’ll fix Iowa’s issues & there’s some folks in every state that need to keep pushing to bring common sense to their regulations. There’s no other option …. Easy to see the outcome of either path the people choose

Well said! Everything else is somewhat irrelevant when population is an issue. Obviously there were more big deer around when we started out with twice as many! Some of the other issues are much harder to fix but an organized push to limit doe harvest and increase populations across the state is a good place to start and one we actually have a realistic chance of getting DNR/Legislative support on…. Hopefully!


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