Shotgunners - THINK FIRST

[iowavf]

Well all I have is a doe tag for 1st season. Didn't fill it last year but saw deer and had chances. I use my anysex tag for late ML season. If a nice mature doe comes along I might take her and maybe I'll let her pass depending on how many deer I see. I hunt more for the sport and not the kill and I know my brother will shoot a doe 2nd season there if he has a chance.

 

[Booner]

It's the "all around hunter" and the educated hunter that needs to take it upon themselves to help better the situation. Do what is in your control, and not worry about the others. But helping to educate them with your knowledge may help!

I am not saying force your beliefs onto them, or make anyone feel guilty for filling their tags. I don't think that this should be a play on emotion, just a simple reality:

If you want to see better hunting down the road, than pass deer today.

I'll be honest, I think that everyone in my immediate area in on the same page, so I can guarantee that my hunting can only get better (cross my fingers, at least we are doing our best with what we have control over). If you want to hunt with a big group that chooses to knock down as many as you can get tags for, you wont be doing it for much longer, it's pretty simple. Nothing wrong with it, but the resource will become tapped, and we will either need to find new areas to hunt, or new hobbies. I am sure in some of your areas you are seeing fewer numbers than in years past, and this has to make you cringe at least a little. But group hunting is an Iowa tradition and one that I am ok with never going away.

A renewable resource is a natural resource which can replenish with the passage of time, either through biological reproduction or other naturally recurring processes.

It takes time to correct! I have a lot of years of hunting ahead of me I hope, I can handle not killing does for a while!

That definitely makes sense in the perfect world, however we both know how that works. It's like preaching to a choir and they entire choir has a voice of an angel. Us on this website all understand what "needs" to be done however it's those that don't have the resources and or don't want to hear the truth and what is going on. In most cases there is ZERO desire to hear the truth!!! Perfect example, the pheasant population. You think for one moment that a "farmer" who has a passion for pheasant hunting is going to rip out that fence row and un-enlist all his potential CRP......NO. Same goes for us educated hunters, we all want whats best for "our" deer herd. The problem there lies in the guys/gals who haven't a care in the world for declining deer numbers as long as they get some shooting and or shoot a deer, who cares, right?? It's a never ending battle that we as hunters can only control so much.

 

[gundog870]

You are right, there will still be people who shoot does. Which makes it even more important for the few of us blessed with the opportunity to hunt multiple seasons, with numerous deer under our belt, to do the right thing.

If its a waste of your breath with to explain to the group in question, then inform someone else etc. Or simply lead by example. You don't need to change everyone else's beliefs to make a positive impact yourself!

I'm am obviously not shooting does, and the world is far from perfect

 

[Open Site]

Typical bow hunters blaming shotgunners for everything they think is wrong with deer hunting.

 

[Jake_Schlotterback]

I haven't noticed any change really in my heard size but judging by others posts the numbers sound to be down. Its hard to tell what that means to some people though. To some not seeing a shooter every sit is depressing to them. It always gets me when you watch the outdoor channel and the host comes on and says " its my third day here and I'm ready to finish this hunt." Must be rough!

 

[JNRBRONC]

Typical bow hunters blaming shotgunners for everything they think is wrong with deer hunting.

I hunt with bow and gun. I'm not pointing fingers.

I was over on ArcheryTalk today where there is a poll on the number of members there that hunt with bow and gun. When I voted, it was running 73% of those responding hunted with both. Typical?

 

[Open Site]

I hunt with bow and gun. I'm not pointing fingers. I was over on ArcheryTalk today where there is a poll on the number of members there that hunt with bow and gun. When I voted, it was running 73% of those responding hunted with both. Typical?

Bow hunters typically do late muzzy.

I said that because that it seems like every time a bow hunter is complaining it is because of something guys who hunt during shotgun season did. I take care of 440 acres cash rent 120 food plot 80 and the rest is CRP and timber. Every other year I find a dead deer with arrow hanging out of it. But if I shoot a doe or a non mature buck I'm doing the state wrong. Give me a break. I take care of my land for my hunting. If think you need to save the does. Buy some land and put in the time and money that I have and don't shoot does. Your farm can be a doe safe haven. Remember you're getting permission from farmers that want all the deer dead.

 

[gundog870]

Bow hunters typically do late muzzy.

I said that because that it seems like every time a bow hunter is complaining it is because of something guys who hunt during shotgun season did. I take care of 440 acres cash rent 120 food plot 80 and the rest is CRP and timber. Every other year I find a dead deer with arrow hanging out of it. But if I shoot a doe or a non mature buck I'm doing the state wrong. Give me a break. I take care of my land for my hunting. If think you need to save the does. Buy some land and put in the time and money that I have and don't shoot does. Your farm can be a doe safe haven. Remember you're getting permission from farmers that want all the deer dead.

My farm is a doe safe haven and I am a shotgunner for the next three weeks.

Untwist your panties for just a second. There are typically 90,000 plus hunters that hit the woods the next three weeks, they have the option to have a very positive impact on the population as did the bow hunters that are wrapping up the early split this week. Just a public service announcement :way:

No matter what season you hunt or how you do it, you can be impacted by the population decrease. If you only hunt your farm and your neighbors have no impact on you than luckily for you you don't have much of a dog in this fight! Good luck in the weeks to come!

 

[Open Site]

Gundog good luck to you also.

 

[bigbuckhunter88]

Typical bow hunters blaming shotgunners for everything they think is wrong with deer hunting.

If I were in southern Iowa I would blame rifle hunters and EHD, but since I am in NE Iowa I will blame mostly shotgun hunters but bow and muzzleloaders do add to the problem. It is easier to think the population is up when you push sections of land and see dozens or hundreds of deer run out. In my opinion it is easier for a bow hunter to get a better grasp on the herd population by spending hours in the stand and seeing deer in their natural environment and locations. During those first three weekends in December deer are bunched up to start with and then pushed out and people think the deer herds are thriving. This is what happens when people don't inform themselves and listen to Farm Bureau reps pimping their own initiatives.

 

[Open Site]

If I were in southern Iowa I would blame rifle hunters and EHD, but since I am in NE Iowa I will blame mostly shotgun hunters but bow and muzzleloaders do add to the problem. It is easier to think the population is up when you push sections of land and see dozens or hundreds of deer run out. In my opinion it is easier for a bow hunter to get a better grasp on the herd population by spending hours in the stand and seeing deer in their natural environment and locations. During those first three weekends in December deer are bunched up to start with and then pushed out and people think the deer herds are thriving. This is what happens when people don't inform themselves and listen to Farm Bureau reps pimping their own initiatives.

I guess I don't really understand how a guy sitting in a tree stand can get a better grasp on the deer population than a group of guys hunting multiple sections of land.

 

[flugge]

The guys pushing the woods are moving everything around for miles... the guys in a tree are watching the local deer herd....

 

[thephatchef]

It's also good to remember that an extremely large number of hunters do not have private ground to hunt. It's only been three years that I've had permission to hunt some private ground. The rest of the time before that was all public ground hunting. If we regulate away shotgun hunting, or advocate for people to not hunt because the numbers are "down" in some areas, we affect the guys who only have public ground to hunt. The provide millions of dollars to the state that go directly back into habitat and acquiring new public ground.

I think it is good to remember what an awesome blessing it is to hunt on private ground. Not everyone is afforded that privilege, or spoiled by it growing up. I count every year that I get to hunt the private ground that I do, and absolute honor!

 

[JNRBRONC]

I guess I don't really understand how a guy sitting in a tree stand can get a better grasp on the deer population than a group of guys hunting multiple sections of land.

I have heard of the Iowa DNR annual bow hunting survey, but not the Iowa DNR annual shotgun hunting survey (besides the postcard that gets sent out asking what a person thinks about the number of deer they saw).

Bow hunters spend more time in the quiet woods observing unpressured wildlife. I just sent in my survey that totaled 99 hours (slow year for me as work commitments prevented me from taking vacation). The data collected here reflects deer in their "home territories". Once the drives start during shotgun season, the deer start moving to safe areas which sometimes sanctuaries load up with large numbers of deer. Thus, it doesn't really reflect the normal distribution of the deer herd.

 

[Open Site]

I have heard of the Iowa DNR annual bow hunting survey, but not the Iowa DNR annual shotgun hunting survey (besides the postcard that gets sent out asking what a person thinks about the number of deer they saw).

Bow hunters spend more time in the quiet woods observing unpressured wildlife. I just sent in my survey that totaled 99 hours (slow year for me as work commitments prevented me from taking vacation). The data collected here reflects deer in their "home territories". Once the drives start during shotgun season, the deer start moving to safe areas which sometimes sanctuaries load up with large numbers of deer. Thus, it doesn't really reflect the normal distribution of the deer herd.

I understand where you are coming from but what about the deer that are walking on the other side of the timber you are sitting at. Or the ones that walk a different path, one where you can't see them. You are observing a what 100-200 yard radius of land. Where guys that push timbers are observing 1000's of acres. I know I am fighting a battle I can not win on here with IW being 90% Bow but with a title of "Shotgunners Think First". It just sounds like Bow hunters are acting like Husker fans. Entitled to tell other hunters(Shotgunners) how to hunt and think and that they are better/smarter than their fellow hunters.

 

[JNRBRONC]

I understand where you are coming from but what about the deer that are walking on the other side of the timber you are sitting at. Or the ones that walk a different path, one where you can't see them. You are observing a what 100-200 yard radius of land. Where guys that push timbers are observing 1000's of acres. I know I am fighting a battle I can not win on here with IW being 90% Bow but with a title of "Shotgunners Think First". It just sounds like Bow hunters are acting like Husker fans. Entitled to tell other hunters(Shotgunners) how to hunt and think and that they are better/smarter than their fellow hunters.

Bow or gun, we're all in this together. Take from this thread what you care to....

 

[CurtisWalker]

I understand where you are coming from but what about the deer that are walking on the other side of the timber you are sitting at. Or the ones that walk a different path, one where you can't see them. You are observing a what 100-200 yard radius of land. Where guys that push timbers are observing 1000's of acres. I know I am fighting a battle I can not win on here with IW being 90% Bow but with a title of "Shotgunners Think First". It just sounds like Bow hunters are acting like Husker fans. Entitled to tell other hunters(Shotgunners) how to hunt and think and that they are better/smarter than their fellow hunters.

I looked at it as the bowhunters have been out for 50+ days now and have observed the herd for that time and have seen that it is low. We just want to inform shotgunners what we have seen. It's kind of like we scouted and are reporting to the shotgunners. Most shotgunners don't see the decline in the herd because they don't scout. They push deer and believe there is more deer than there actually is. So bowhunters just want to get the word out so the many weekend warriors know what is going on

 

[gundog870]

I understand where you are coming from but what about the deer that are walking on the other side of the timber you are sitting at. Or the ones that walk a different path, one where you can't see them. You are observing a what 100-200 yard radius of land. Where guys that push timbers are observing 1000's of acres. I know I am fighting a battle I can not win on here with IW being 90% Bow but with a title of "Shotgunners Think First". It just sounds like Bow hunters are acting like Husker fans. Entitled to tell other hunters(Shotgunners) how to hunt and think and that they are better/smarter than their fellow hunters.

Next September I will make a thread that says Bowhunters Think First. Shotgun season is what is upon us and our largest harvest as a group.


In regards to public land, this is even more important!!!! You don't get to control what is killed. ALL of us do! Every doe that you let walk on public has a chance to survive and multiply for next years season! It may get killed by someone else, sure, but if you kill it, that guarantees up to 3 deer you won't see next year!!!!!!

 

[gundog870]

This is not a bowhunters verse gunhunter thread, don't make it that. This is simply a deer population is considerably down thread.

Only one way to change it!

 

[bowmaker]

Ok for those who think that there are still lots of deer and that we should not stop killing 3 or 4 does just for practice before that big buck steps out and then drop the does off at a HUSH locker, here are the real numbers from the IDNR. The stats for 2011/2012 season are 392,930 deer licenses sold and only 121,407 TOTAL deer harvested of which almost 62% were antlerless. The harvest numbers have fallen so drastically over the last 5 years but the total number of licenses have held pretty steady. I will ask once again what could possibly be the reason that the most knowledgable best equipped hunters, bow or shotgun or ML, with continuous seasons running from Sept 15th to the end of January buying as many licenses but killing 30,000 fewer deer? In 2006 there were 377,525 licenses sold and 150,552 deer killed, but in 2011 there were 392,930 licenses used to kill only 121,407 deer. :thrwrck:
Another interesting fact is that the deer accidents per BILLION MILES driven was lower in 2011 that it has been since 1985. 2011 saw 570 killed per billion miles driven and 1985 was 495 per billion miles driven. The only common thread is our continued over harvesting of does. I know that some will argue about the EHD and some other possible factors, but what ever the cause there are way fewer deer to hunt and the only way to reverse that is to stop killing as many does. I see nothing wrong with killing a doe and I will probably do so this weekend, but I do see something wrong with killing 5 or 6 does and then donating them to HUSH in the mistaken belief that some how that will lead to more and bigger bucks.
For the last few years I have made it a practice, if given the choice between a small or spike buck or a mature doe, of shooting the small buck. Like someone already said if I shoot a small buck before he reaches his prime, then 3 years from now the populations will be less one deer. If I shoot a mature doe then 3 years from now the populations is down by as many as 15 deer. Which is the right thing to do if you want your Grandchildren to be able to hunt deer here in Iowa with even a small chance of success?