Switchgrass

[dbltree]

I was gonna order some from Townsend now, would I need any Gly or crop oil too? Or just the Oust XP do the job this fall?
It's a small area only 2-3ac

Thanks again for all the help!

The Oust is more effective with crop oil on emerged cool season grasses and I have gotten good kills with or without gly although I prefer to add it for insurance on tough grasses like fescue and brome.

Roundup is pretty cheap right now as is crop oil so the cost for a couple acres is pretty minimal.

Just be certain you apply this poison cocktail the fall before sowing switchgrass of while established switchgrass is dormant in late fall or very early spring or...you kill the switch too!

 

[dbltree]

Whitetail Fanatics successful switchgrass plantings...:way:

Here are some pictures of our 2nd year CIR SG from one week ago. It is mostly about 5 feet tall, some a little taller than that even, and very thick. The corn in the background of these pics is organic that I plant as food plots for the wildlife. I rotary hoe it at 7 days after planting to get most of the weeds, and then cultivate with a 2 row tine cultivator when about 5" tall and knee high.

The top wire on the electric fence to the right in this pic is 6 feet high, to give an idea of how tall the SG is. The fence encloses 8.1 acres of planted white cedars (deer candy!) After planting this 2 times previously and having every one destroyed, I finally decided to fence them in after planting a third time. When they get about 7-8 feet tall (about 8 years from now) we will take the fence down and let the deer enjoy them!

Seed heads coming out

This pic is at the edge of the field, showing the clumps at the bases. There are some cool season grasses and weeds at the bottom of this pic, but that is on the outside of the CIR SG field. Inside the SG field is pretty much weed free! Thanks DT for your advice in establishing this CIR SG!

And these are pics of seedling (1st year) CIR SG from one week ago. As you can see, on the right, this field also borders the electric fence (8.1 acre white cedar planting). This past week with all the rain and heat, it grew quite a bit since these pics were taken, and the CIR seedlings in this field are waist high today.

There was one strip where thistles were coming in thick so I sprayed it with 2-4d a few weeks ago and the CIR here is thinner and smaller, but now it doesn't have to compete with the thick thistles anymore.

This field, only 100 yards away, but separated by a steep hillside between the other field, is much shorter and the CIR didn't come in as thick even though I did everything the same and planted the same day. There are also more weeds because the SG is thinner and the residual herbicide got more washed out from the excessive heavy rains since this field is steeper and sandier. The soil is sandier and lighter than the other field 100 yards away. I thought it would come up earlier with more direct south sun and sandier soil that heats up faster. I think some of the seed might have got washed out by heavy rains or buried too deeply because the soil was looser, steeper, and the cultipacker didn't firm the soil as good here.

That's another reason to frost seed instead of tilling, but if you remember from my earlier posts, I had a lot of leftover brassicas in these fields so I felt I better till it instead of frost seeding. It came up about 2 weeks later than the CIR in the field right next to it, and I was worried it was going to be a failure until I finally started to see it come up 2 weeks later than the other field.

Here are some close up pics of 1st year seedling CIR SG clumps

 

[Ridgerunner]

My second year CIR has taken a beating with the wind and rain and over half of it has fallen over. I expected it to recover by now, but it is still laying sideways. Is there a chance it will recover and if not will it hurt the stand in upcoming years due to smothering. Has anyone else experienced this problem this year with the heavy rains.

 

[roadking]

I planted about 20 acres this year of CIR and it looks great.

 

[dbltree]

My second year CIR has taken a beating with the wind and rain and over half of it has fallen over. I expected it to recover by now, but it is still laying sideways. Is there a chance it will recover and if not will it hurt the stand in upcoming years due to smothering. Has anyone else experienced this problem this year with the heavy rains.

That's something I have never seen? Mine only heavy snows bend my CIR over but a little sun melts the snow and it pops right back up!

Sounds like you have some great soils and it's grown fast and tall with less stem support?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Yes, It is rich ground. I will try to send pictures when I get a chance.

 

[dbltree]

This is first year switch frost seeded in late Feb. and then sprayed in early April with 3.5 quarts of Atrazine and glyphosate....pics taken in July.

They are all strips for screens on his farm (pics sent by a friend)

No tillage or prior work done to these strips and they turned out very well

It is important to remember that growth...regardless of planting methods will vary depending on soils. Switchgrass loves rich loamy soils and will literally explode in a short time just as corn would. Poor clay subsoils or very droughty sandy soils on the other hand will see much slower growth, especially on clay which takes more effort for the switch roots to grow.

Eventually the end result is the same and once the NWSG has established a deep root system it will do very well on most soils. Switch loves nitrogen and adding N on poor soils will send it shooting upwards like a rocket...Do NOT use N however unless you use good herbicides or you'll encourage a mass of weeds that will be difficult to control....

 

[Sligh1]

For folks killing off areas they will later plant to switch.... I've had trouble with spraying in Sept and having to constantly battle the resprouting of all the weeds/seed that's there. I've taken the approach of just re-spraying until it's cold out- doing my best to leave an area with no weeds sprouting, no regrowth and bare dead areas- been pretty tough though. I've had to be pretty aggressive and dilegent (and yes, I'm a little picky too)

My thought when killing off with Round-up in September, how about adding some atrazine then to make sure nothing comes back going into winter, thus leaving a completely toasted area for frost seeding??? Thoughts??? *Yes, one could hit round-up and atrazine in the spring BUT I'm thinking of the value of adding some to a fall kill- really, next spring no round-up would be needed then, thoughts?

 

[dbltree]

For folks killing off areas they will later plant to switch.... I've had trouble with spraying in Sept and having to constantly battle the resprouting of all the weeds/seed that's there. I've taken the approach of just re-spraying until it's cold out- doing my best to leave an area with no weeds sprouting, no regrowth and bare dead areas- been pretty tough though. I've had to be pretty aggressive and dilegent (and yes, I'm a little picky too)

My thought when killing off with Round-up in September, how about adding some atrazine then to make sure nothing comes back going into winter, thus leaving a completely toasted area for frost seeding??? Thoughts??? *Yes, one could hit round-up and atrazine in the spring BUT I'm thinking of the value of adding some to a fall kill- really, next spring no round-up would be needed then, thoughts?

That's exactly why I reccomend using 1-2 ounces of Oust XP in a late summer spraying Skip...the residual effects are even more powerful and long lasting then atrazine and will insure a clean seedbed well into spring.

This will usually negate the need for an additional spring spraying of gly as well...:way:

 

[roadking]

I hit mine with RU late Sept. to Early Oct. last year. Drilled in late March then hit again with RU late June. This is my frst year ever frost seeding and my CRP & other NWSG are about 2-2.5 ft. high right now. I'm very happy with it.

 

[dbltree]

I hit mine with RU late Sept. to Early Oct. last year. Drilled in late March then hit again with RU late June. This is my frst year ever frost seeding and my CRP & other NWSG are about 2-2.5 ft. high right now. I'm very happy with it.

Sweet! Share some pics when you can! :way:

Cave In Rock switchgrass in early August with native wild Big Bluestem mixed in

CIR switch is roughly 6' tall...plenty tall enough to hide deer but the BB towers above it!

This side the BB is thicker and tall as the topper of my truck

I like to point out to the folks who think tillage is necessary to establish NWSG that every single Big Bluestem and Indiangrass plant in my switchgrass got there by wind blown seed. This ground has not been farmed in at least 30 years and the switchgrass was established via winter frost seeding 15 years ago.

The fluffy seeds are carried by wind and animals and despite the thick switchgrass make their way to the soil thanks to winter snow and rains, freezing and thawing helps the seeds make soil contact and the result is obvious.

It's nice to have diversity and I welcome the native grasses, however when the going gets tough in mid winter the tall Big Bluestem gets crushed to the ground during heavy winter snow and ice storms. The tough as nails CIR however quickly rebounds is often the only thing still standing by spring....things like that are important if we hope to hold deer on our property year around.......

 

[schweg2]

Nice looking Dbltree!

On a avg year when does the SG go dormant so I can spray my Oust for the foxtail... I'm getting overrun by it

Thanks

 

[roadking]

I have a lot of foxtail as well. Even the field I sprayed with 2-4D a couple weeks ago has lots of it. I think that in time the SG will take over the foxtail because I don't have any problems in my other fields.

 

[dbltree]

Nice looking Dbltree!

On a avg year when does the SG go dormant so I can spray my Oust for the foxtail... I'm getting overrun by it

Thanks

Probably mid October and usually the second year the SG will dominate and the foxtail will "go away"...

 

[dbltree]

I hit mine with RU late Sept. to Early Oct. last year. Drilled in late March then hit again with RU late June. This is my first year ever frost seeding and my CRP & other NWSG are about 2-2.5 ft. high right now. I'm very happy with it.

Here are some pics of Roadkings CIR....appears to be very thick and heavy which is causing some of it to go down. When grown on rich moist soil the switch or any NWSG will grow much a like atree in a tree tube..."fast and furious" and the stems will be weak at first.

Not sure what the planting rate was but at any rate germination was obviously very high!

Be interesting to see this field next year to see if it stands up better as it's root systems become better established and mature plants grow stronger stems. :way:

 

[Ridgerunner]

Dbltree,

The seeding rate was about 10 lbs per acre. It is a fertile bottom field which like many places in the mid-west has received more than its fair share of rain. I will update next year as to how it recovers. I think I may avoid the urea for a year or two. Thanks for posting the pics.

 

[dbltree]

I checked on a field that I frost seeded to Cave In Rock switchgrass a few years ago....all 7 acres done by hand!

It's in a remote field inaccessable with equipment so I killed the sod with a backpack sprayer and broadcasted all the seed on with a bag seeder in mid winter.

As I walked out of the woods I could see my efforts had been very successful!

Head high CIR covered the field!

This is a spot I missed with the sprayer and you can see the difference!

We sprayed the field with Oust this past spring to clean up some remaining fescue because this was an old pasture and it sure did the trick! :way:

 

[dbltree]

A friend asked mine to stop by and check on some switchgrass he frost seeded this past winter. The plots were killed with glyphosate the fall before and then re-sprayed about May 1st again with gly.

This is what it looks like now...Fall Panicum I believe...

If I understood correctly the plot was not mowed during the summer so the gly just released an explosion of annual grasses

Without mowing, residual herbicides like atrazine or selective herbicides like Paramount...the weeds just have a grand ole time!

All is not lost however because there is switchgrass there amidst the jungle of grasses

In these situations, if it were mine I would spray 1 1/2 ounces of Oust XP (roughly $9 an acre) in early April and then if any annual broadleaves become a problem later on I would use common 2-4D, also very inexpensive.

This will release the switchgrass and by the fall of the second year it will then be apparent if more seed is needed or if the stand is good to go as is.

When residual herbicides like atrazine are not easily obtainable because it is a restricted use herbicide then adding Oust to the fall applied gly spraying will help slow the annual weeds and grasses the following spring. If annual grasses and weeds become a problem post emergence then Drive 75 (Paramount) and 2-4D can be used to clean things up once switch has 3-4 leaves.

If all else fails....clip weeds and grasses 6-12" high as needed, sometimes as many as 6 times through out the summer the first year. The herbicides mentioned in this post are listed on the front page of this thread for more information in buying and using them...

 

[Andy in Ohio]

Frost Seed Switch Grass in recently plant rye/oats

I planted 50 lbs rye, 80 lbs of oats and 5 lbs alice white clover in my field on Sept 20 but did not get rain for 5 weeks. After the rain, the rye and oats have come up and are now 1-2" tall. The field does not have cover on 2 sides and I want to put a 30-50' wide strip of switch grass to make a screening wall on the sides of the field that have no cover.

My two implements are an ATV Disc and a boomless sprayer

My question is could I disk under a 30-50' wide strip in an attempt to kill the rye and oats (or even spray with round up in December) so that I could frost seed switch grass this winter and then spray roundup and oust in the spring to kill the alice white clover before the SG germinates?

Or do you think I should wait a year and kill everything in the fall like your recommend on page 1.

Thanks for all your help. I really enjoy reading your forum

 

[dbltree]

I planted 50 lbs rye, 80 lbs of oats and 5 lbs alice white clover in my field on Sept 20 but did not get rain for 5 weeks. After the rain, the rye and oats have come up and are now 1-2" tall. The field does not have cover on 2 sides and I want to put a 30-50' wide strip of switch grass to make a screening wall on the sides of the field that have no cover.

My two implements are an ATV Disc and a boomless sprayer

My question is could I disk under a 30-50' wide strip in an attempt to kill the rye and oats (or even spray with round up in December) so that I could frost seed switch grass this winter and then spray roundup and oust in the spring to kill the alice white clover before the SG germinates?

Or do you think I should wait a year and kill everything in the fall like your recommend on page 1.

Thanks for all your help. I really enjoy reading your forum

Discing would probably kill everything at this point but you could also spray with glyphosate in the spring (might be too late now) You could use 2-4D in the spring to kill the clover but it might have a negative affect on the switch seed so I would be hesitant.

DON"T spray Oust in the spring because it needs to have at least a 3 month interval before switch seed comes up....spray Oust in the FALL only!

The reason for fall spraying is to kill tough perennial grasses like brome and fescue but in your case I'm guessing that has already been accomplished.

I would disk it up soon, frost seed this winter and spray gly in early April to knock back any early weed growth. After that you'll need to clip weeds at 8-12" high the first summer until the switch becomes established....