arm
Leg
I've read a lot of comments about having larger sections, that aren't strips, planted to switch. For preditor reasons or to get deer to actually bed in it. I have a lot of "holes" in one section that I can get into switch or NWSGs. About 8 fields ranging from 1.5 - 5 acreas. the areas are brome and doing nothing now...is it a waste of time and money to plant these areas compared to the cover usability that it could provide. Alternatively, I could just spray the brome and see how thick and tall the weeds get.
I'd skip oust but that's me. If it's clean up your after & it's just switch that's established - it can be done. Read Paul's oust guidelines earlier on.
If u light in fire- which establshed thick switch will burn later... pry be all u need. Especially if late.
Like anything - million ways to skin a cat. Could burn & if no sprouted natives- hit with gly and atrazine when other garbage greens up. That's before any switch comes up. If no burn & established switch - Could do a host of pre emergents.... atrazine, plateau, Etc, etc. if established!! tweak based on weed problem. But fire will solve most this timed right.
If u light in fire- which establshed thick switch will burn later... pry be all u need. Especially if late.
Like anything - million ways to skin a cat. Could burn & if no sprouted natives- hit with gly and atrazine when other garbage greens up. That's before any switch comes up. If no burn & established switch - Could do a host of pre emergents.... atrazine, plateau, Etc, etc. if established!! tweak based on weed problem. But fire will solve most this timed right.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
Yep, that's how I'd prefer it actually.... I like sections of switch. Often buffers against timber or creeks. All of my solid switchgrass, I think the BIGGEST field that's all switch is probably 5-8 acres. I'll do an acre here and there. But, I also do a lot of other diversity with forbs and other grasses too. Part of me likes big tall weedy CRP - why I plant stuff like sunflowers, prairie clover, coneflowers, asters, etc, etc, etc. An old CRP field that does NOT have brome & fescue but it has lots of ragweed, tall weeds and brush, love that stuff. Brome & fescue gets eradicated on my farm EXCEPT in waterway or incredibly erodible locations.
Jbohn
Well-Known Member
My Switch grass fields are 5 acres and 10 and it does make a difference no question even if not a large field. I you want to create whitetail habitat every inch of your property should be looked at I learned that from Paul's Post . Give the deer a reason to be on your property.. If they are brome or Fescue I agree kill it and get some weeds growing...
U can and that's about the rate I'd run. (Reminder - u do not want fresh & heavily active metolachlor on switch seed). This is a little tricky... u want to get it down well before switch seed germinates. Problem with switch SEED is it often doesn't germ until late June or even July sometimes. So it's a pain in the butt to time this all right.
To simplify- what u are trying to juggle is 2 things you don't want and 1 thing u do want...
don't want weeds, foxtail, etc. and u don't want a harmful herbicide that's still there to impact switch. Ideally u want harmful herbicide gone around time switch emerges. I'd also add 2 oz of plateau as well IMO. If really early spraying- do 5-6 oz and it'll be gone by time switch germinates.
What u DO want is active atrazine on soil at time of germination with few weeds.
Not easy to juggle.
Here's one of a dozen ways to go about this....
Have as dead and clean of field as possible going into spring. Frost seed switch ideally. Spray as many times as possible & realistic between time weeds start going and seed germinates. Put harmful herbicides to switch in earlier and remove later (metolachlor, 2,4d, etc). Every spray must include: post emergent (liberty or round up) and atrazine (IMO atrazine and I do apply multiple times in spring). Again, add others (non atrazine) early so gone later. Spray when see weeds until around June. After that (ur last spray had atrazine )..... let it go.
If u messed up on not spraying enough, too many weeds, etc - mow one or possibly 2 times. Based on how bad smothered. Walk away. Switch (if done right) will end up being 1-5' tall depending on mowing and if u did right.
Messed up a year???.... interseed more over winter and repeat BUT if existing switch in there (which there Almost has to be some) - stop the spraying about mid may. Mow as needed, higher and remember - that switch explodes for growth in August. That's when it shines & surprises u. Good luck
To simplify- what u are trying to juggle is 2 things you don't want and 1 thing u do want...
don't want weeds, foxtail, etc. and u don't want a harmful herbicide that's still there to impact switch. Ideally u want harmful herbicide gone around time switch emerges. I'd also add 2 oz of plateau as well IMO. If really early spraying- do 5-6 oz and it'll be gone by time switch germinates.
What u DO want is active atrazine on soil at time of germination with few weeds.
Not easy to juggle.
Here's one of a dozen ways to go about this....
Have as dead and clean of field as possible going into spring. Frost seed switch ideally. Spray as many times as possible & realistic between time weeds start going and seed germinates. Put harmful herbicides to switch in earlier and remove later (metolachlor, 2,4d, etc). Every spray must include: post emergent (liberty or round up) and atrazine (IMO atrazine and I do apply multiple times in spring). Again, add others (non atrazine) early so gone later. Spray when see weeds until around June. After that (ur last spray had atrazine )..... let it go.
If u messed up on not spraying enough, too many weeds, etc - mow one or possibly 2 times. Based on how bad smothered. Walk away. Switch (if done right) will end up being 1-5' tall depending on mowing and if u did right.
Messed up a year???.... interseed more over winter and repeat BUT if existing switch in there (which there Almost has to be some) - stop the spraying about mid may. Mow as needed, higher and remember - that switch explodes for growth in August. That's when it shines & surprises u. Good luck
Daver
PMA Member
From what I have heard, some of it from very reputable sources, CIR will overtake Kanlow if it is close enough to it and/or mixed.
Yes and it's good.
Difference - it's taller but less clumpy and it's more slender. So I suppose it could tip a bit easier but splitting hairs on that. It will tolerate wetter conditions. I like em both. I still mix both but I've done some straight cir areas and some kanlow areas and I don't think the average guy will be dissappointed in either if established right and managed right in long run.
Difference - it's taller but less clumpy and it's more slender. So I suppose it could tip a bit easier but splitting hairs on that. It will tolerate wetter conditions. I like em both. I still mix both but I've done some straight cir areas and some kanlow areas and I don't think the average guy will be dissappointed in either if established right and managed right in long run.
Jbohn
Well-Known Member
Skip you thinking march 30th be a good time to do atrazine , Metaclor , 2oz Panoramic. ?
be fine and if it's newly planted seed- I think you could spray with post emergent & atrazine until June. Couple more sprayings won't hurt a thing if ur able. And I bet u still could possibly have some weeds. July when that seed starts- it's gonna go from "nothing" to 3-5' tall if u time things right. Obviously make sure u don't use post emergents when switch is germinating.
In all of mine I encourage every weed that I can get.I think about a field of NWSG to be like a freshly dug pond,fish can live in it but they will just swim around.If you have trees,shrubs or weeds that where wildlife will gravitate to.I prefer cedars but can be hard to maintain.I have started working with some cattle guys to swath and bale some each year so I don't have to burn and risk losing trees
Yep, I get you. My spin on that or addition.....
I treat my farm like a pond trying to add lots of STRUCTURE and change....
I do have solid switchgrass fields but they are only about 5 acres at most. And all I want in those fields is switchgrass. You could pretend that's equivalent of a "lilly pad patch" in a pond - whatever.
Weeds.... I love em - just not while establishing natives.... I love diversity and random weeds BUT the struggle with converting a field, depending on the weed seed bed.... You could easily walk up to a CARPET of all foxtail. Or a jungle of pigweed & waterhemp. So, 1st year, I'd be careful because it's better winding up with the monoculture you want or the variety you want VS the "unknown" flourish of "who knows?!?!?!?" Who knows, worst case: nasty Pigweed/waterhemp, foxtail. Probably followed by crabgrass & unkilled cool season stuff like brome or fescue. Cockleburs aren't much fun either. So - just be careful. To add variety, I'd prefer to plant them initially so I know exactly what the diversity that will grow will be. I don't mind ragweed for example. You can adjust as time goes on with interseeding, spraying, burn timing, etc.
Agree on above.... Monocultures aren't best method. I think I have 4-5 solid switchgrass fields. the rest.... Heck, I've got fields I planted to all forbs: Asters, sunflowers, coneflowers, black eye susan, prairie clovers, etc, etc. Never ends.... Some of of those mixed with natives, etc.
And ya, agree, I love having cedars in other areas with "weeds", natives, etc mixed in. Shrubs, etc. All my native fields, CRP fields.... I have ditches I can protect or windbreaks that have shrubs & trees planted (safe from fire).
Bottom line, simple explanation without pics.... I'd prefer to take a 100 acre wide open field and divide it up 5-10 ways..... tree rows separating each area for example too. One of my farm has about 15 different fields broken up by draws or timber..... I literally planted different things in all of the fields. It's fun. DIVERSITY!!!! Trees, shrubs, switchgrass, forbs, native grass mixes, etc. Great part is: just try different stuff. It can be some expensive experimenting but there's cost share in a variety of ways.
Several freezes and thaws will be ample. You will be fine. It's raining right now here and gonna freeze & thaw several more times. Not an issue.
Horncarver
Member
I have a several large areas in my CIR plantings where foxtail took hold during the establishment phase and continues to persist. The CIR stands range from 2 to 4 years old now. One can see CIR plants sporadically scattered in these problems areas and burning is not an option as this point. With all of the dead vegetative matter covering the soil in these infested areas, would spraying Oust still be an effective way of reducing this unwanted competition or a waste of money Do I have any other treatment options? Thanks!
Oust would be in fall.
If u wanna clean it up now & burning not an option....
plateau & a few other things would release the established switchgrass. It would not allow for any switch seeds to germinate. Unless u really tweaked timing and rate of spraying. For example (I'm telling u- there's a dozen ways to do this and u have options!!!) of what id do...
I'd spray 5-10 oz of plateau per acre + 2 qts 2,4-d, 15- 30 oz s-metolachlor, 2-3 qts+ atrazine (yes, some will make it to soil) & liberty or round up (35-40 oz liberty or 2-3 qts round up) (ams & crop oil too be helpful)- sprayed around May 1. (Make sure it's before switch plants green up). This MIGHT allow some switch seeds to germinate around late June. Possibly. It will absolutely blast the foxtail coming in (which may be less second year and ur switch plants will be far more dominant second year)
If it were ME - here's EXACTLY what I'd do.... different because I don't like to attempt to get all switchgrass after a weedy 1st round, etc. I'd be spraying around may 1 with 35-40 oz liberty (post emergent), crop oil & ams & 12-15 oz of plateau. ME... right after that- id be running my NWSG drill over it with 2 lbs Indian and 2 lbs BB (rates depending on how much switch is there and how much I need to fill in). Me- I'd probably add some partridge pea and IL bundleflower but minor. Walk away.
If u wanna have solid switch.... another option.... seed more switch now heavy. Still hit it with heavy atrazine & post emergents several times until switch greens up. Leave it be. Then- mow high one time in about mid July- walk away. Burn in couple years.
It's complicated but as long as u ain't killing existing plants & cleaning up and adding to it- u will move it along. Good luck. Million ways to tackle this.
If u wanna clean it up now & burning not an option....
plateau & a few other things would release the established switchgrass. It would not allow for any switch seeds to germinate. Unless u really tweaked timing and rate of spraying. For example (I'm telling u- there's a dozen ways to do this and u have options!!!) of what id do...
I'd spray 5-10 oz of plateau per acre + 2 qts 2,4-d, 15- 30 oz s-metolachlor, 2-3 qts+ atrazine (yes, some will make it to soil) & liberty or round up (35-40 oz liberty or 2-3 qts round up) (ams & crop oil too be helpful)- sprayed around May 1. (Make sure it's before switch plants green up). This MIGHT allow some switch seeds to germinate around late June. Possibly. It will absolutely blast the foxtail coming in (which may be less second year and ur switch plants will be far more dominant second year)
If it were ME - here's EXACTLY what I'd do.... different because I don't like to attempt to get all switchgrass after a weedy 1st round, etc. I'd be spraying around may 1 with 35-40 oz liberty (post emergent), crop oil & ams & 12-15 oz of plateau. ME... right after that- id be running my NWSG drill over it with 2 lbs Indian and 2 lbs BB (rates depending on how much switch is there and how much I need to fill in). Me- I'd probably add some partridge pea and IL bundleflower but minor. Walk away.
If u wanna have solid switch.... another option.... seed more switch now heavy. Still hit it with heavy atrazine & post emergents several times until switch greens up. Leave it be. Then- mow high one time in about mid July- walk away. Burn in couple years.
It's complicated but as long as u ain't killing existing plants & cleaning up and adding to it- u will move it along. Good luck. Million ways to tackle this.