Tree Planting

dbltree · Aug 10, 2010

letemgrow said:
Got it, I will be looking for the chemical name on the back of the labels. :way:

Keystone carries a generic version but it's not excatly the same...look at the labels closely and I have a link on the subject in the herbicide thread.

Me-Too-Lachlor II Herbicide

Dual II has -S- and the generic listed above does not....

Nontypcl1 · Aug 10, 2010

I was able to pick up some brawl herbicide from the local coop for about $80 for 2.5gal. It is also S-metolachlor. I believe it has the same % a.i. as Dual II magnum.

Here's a link to the label

http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld51N002.pdf

dbltree · Aug 10, 2010

Nontypcl1 said:
I was able to pick up some brawl herbicide from the local coop for about $80 for 2.5gal. It is also S-metolachlor. I believe it has the same % a.i. as Dual II magnum.

Here's a link to the label

http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld51N002.pdf

Sure looks like it is the same? Heckuva price too because Dual is $300+ for 2.5 gallons!

dbltree · Aug 25, 2010

The trees in the Rigid Tree Protectors are doing fine buy many of them have grown right thru the mesh , making a tempting target for marauding bucks this fall.

So far I am really like the Protex tree tubes and many of the oaks will be out the top of the tube by September 1st!

I have concerns about hardening off trees in tubes so I'll be following that along with bucks working them over. The smooth surface will be far less attractive to hormone charged bucks the the Rigid protectors but sometimes they are not fussy...

Nontypcl1 · Sep 29, 2010

I getting ready to place an order with the state nursery for next spring and doing some figuring on numbers.

What kind of spacing would you guys recommend on red cedars to encourage deer to use as a bedding area in the future? Would you plant thicker now to create more cover faster then thin the stand later? or plant at what you would desire for final spacing at mature size?

letemgrow · Sep 29, 2010

Nontypcl1 said:
I getting ready to place an order with the state nursery for next spring and doing some figuring on numbers.

What kind of spacing would you guys recommend on red cedars to encourage deer to use as a bedding area in the future? Would you plant thicker now to create more cover faster then thin the stand later? or plant at what you would desire for final spacing at mature size?

I like to have cedars scattered on a south facing slope for winter bedding. This way shrubs, native grasses or whatever you choose can grow in between and provide wonderful screening cover, browse and still let the deer soak up the winter sun which they enjoy on south facing slopes anyways.

Cedars on a north facing slope are like an ice box with no sun getting in in the winter-time.

dbltree · Sep 29, 2010

I'm with Phil...space em out and stagger them if row planted...add shrubs for interim cover until the cedars get older if you can...

Nontypcl1 · Sep 30, 2010

I like to have cedars scattered on a south facing slope for winter bedding.

That's the plan.

The area is consists of a south and east facing slopes and a timbered creek bottom. It was mostly thick matted cool season grasses in the open areas with some multiflora (which are now dead) and scattered hickory, a few hedge and some cedars. I will also be planting some dogwoods, elderberry, and maybe some nannyberry. Also some Highbush cranberry in the wetter areas and DCO's on the tops of the slopes.

letemgrow · Sep 30, 2010

Nontypcl1 said:
That's the plan.

The area is consists of a south and east facing slopes and a timbered creek bottom. It was mostly thick matted cool season grasses in the open areas with some multiflora (which are now dead) and scattered hickory, a few hedge and some cedars. I will also be planting some dogwoods, elderberry, and maybe some nannyberry. Also some Highbush cranberry in the wetter areas and DCO's on the tops of the slopes.

Sounds like a great plan and you will no doubt reap the rewards!! :way:

Nontypcl1 · Oct 6, 2010

Another question for you tree/shrub experts out there:grin:

For those who have ordered shrubs from the state nursery here in iowa; did you order the small or large size? If you have ordered both, did the large size (17"+) make much of a difference for the extra cost?

I'll be ordering some fast growing shrubs like dogwoods, elderberry and highbush cranberry. So I'm wondering if I try and save a buck by ordering the small size is it gonna make much difference a year or two down the road.

I'm also ordering quite a few cedars. I was planning on going with the large size on these. But haven't ordered these from the state nursery before so I don't know what to expect.

thanks in advance

letemgrow · Oct 7, 2010

Check and see if the large sized ones are the same age, if they are then they are worth the extra dough IMO. I asked the MDC nursery about the XL one year old seedlings they sell, they advised me that they were not seedlings with more space to grow, but rather seedlings that grew faster than the rest of the bunch so anytime they have the xl in the species I want, I do not hesitate to get them.

dark_viper42 · Oct 7, 2010

I'm going to be planting oak seedlings here in a couple weeks to connect two woodlots and create a funnel. What would you guys recommend i do as far a spacing for the seedlings and rows? I plan to add seedlings to this funnel every year until its finished, but I'm going to start with around 50 next week. 25 will be sawtooth oak and 25 will be swamp white oak. What does everyone think?

dbltree · Oct 7, 2010

dark_viper42 said:
I'm going to be planting oak seedlings here in a couple weeks to connect two woodlots and create a funnel. What would you guys recommend i do as far a spacing for the seedlings and rows? I plan to add seedlings to this funnel every year until its finished, but I'm going to start with around 50 next week. 25 will be sawtooth oak and 25 will be swamp white oak. What does everyone think?

Normal spacing for a hardwood planting would be roughly 8x8 or 10x10 spacings and then eventually you thin them.

I think for a funnel I would consider adding some conifers for more screening, perhaps stagger the conifers and oaks.

At any rate I would probably shoot for 10' apart...

dbltree · Oct 14, 2010

Just as I suspected....marauding bucks found the Rigid Tree protectors irresistible and have demolished some of them along with the tree.

The mesh itself is more attractive then the tree and easily shredded

So while they may protect against browsing in some cases they are a magnet for trouble around my place

I have noticed only one Protex tube that had been hit but neither it nor the tree were damaged and unlike the Rigid protector it was easily replaced. (the Rigids are impossible to slide back over a tree or shrub)

Wire, while not infallible is the best bet for protecting young trees in my neck of the woods

Hopefully they'll leave the rest of the Rigids alone but I may have to enclose them with wire as well.

Nontypcl1 · Oct 14, 2010

Ouch! They really tore those up. I was just getting ready to place an order for the rigid mesh protectors today. Looks like I may be reconsidering now.

Letemgrow, I think I remember you having used them on your farm. Any problems with bucks shredding them yet?

dbltree · Oct 19, 2010

This picture gives some what of a birds eye view of a windbreak/shelterbelt planting I did 15 years ago. The reasons for it should be clearly obvious to any whitetail or wildlife enthusiast intent on enhancing their habitat.

The combination of shrubs, conifers and hardwoods provides screening, thermal cover, bedding and food sources and insulates wildlife from roads and human activity.

I signed up this planting under a general CRP sign up and planted 8 rows around the entire perimeter of this farm and I not only got paid for planting the trees but I also received annual payments for 15 years to boot!

If you have open land exposed to roads or neighbors and would like to establish some permanent screening and cover there are several great options to consider.

Continuous CRP offers landowners the opportunity to sign up windbreaks, shelter belts or living snow fences and receive 10-15 years of annual payments, incentive payments, maintenance fees and cost share to establish the plantings themselves.

This link offers and excellent overview of the possibles under the Continuous CRP and most are also available under a General sign up as well.

Continuous CRP Practices

There is no bid process for Continuous, only NRCS approval of the site which is rarely any problem and they will be happy to assist you in signing up.

The Wildlife Habitat Incentive Program (WHIP) also offers like kind opportunities on land that perhaps is no currently crop land or eligible under Continuous CRP. There are no annual payments but 100% cost share allows one to cover all the costs of planting your windbreak/shelterbelt.

Wildlife Habitat Incentive Program (WHIP)

Environmental Quality Incentives Program (EQIP) also offers the exact same opportunities as WHIP but may not be available in all counties because there are EQIP county boards who decide which practices are most important and some practices are omitted.

Use the link below to find your state and county EQIP info or stop by your local NRCS office

Environmental Quality Incentives Program

Individual states may offer additional cost share opportunities such as tree planting through REAP funds or DNR help via free trees and shrubs.

Be sure to plant a variety of shrubs and conifers to maintain a diverse planting and do some research on the type of native shrubs you may be planting.

This is Highbush Cranberry in early October already without a leaf on it so it's important to not plant two rows of this shrub next to each other.

Shrubs and conifers are small at first of course as is this case with this first year Silky Dogwood seedling

Annual crops such as Egyptian Wheat can be used to provide screening while the shelterbelt is becoming established

Refer to the beginning of this thread for detailed information regarding types of shrubs and conifers along with great sources for seedlings.

Cost share opportunities allow us to screen our properties at little or no cost to the landowner and that my friends is called...having your cake and eating it too! :way:

Crimson Arrows · Oct 21, 2010

Paul-I have been reading the info on the red cedars and great thread. Sometimes I can't believe the amount of info and time you have put on here. Thanks!

I plan on planting "some" type of wind break, but not for that purpose to be honest. To essentially create another edge and to also act as a "screen".

From what I have gathered, the RED CEDAR is the best bet and honestly-I would prefer some type of conifer. In saying that. What would you expect to pay for each tree and I gathered spring is s good time to plant? It would border a bean field on one section and alflafa on the other. Thanks!

DOES CP 33 allow for the cedar to be cost shared?

dbltree · Oct 22, 2010

huntyak said:
Paul-I have been reading the info on the red cedars and great thread. Sometimes I can't believe the amount of info and time you have put on here. Thanks!

I plan on planting "some" type of wind break, but not for that purpose to be honest. To essentially create another edge and to also act as a "screen".

From what I have gathered, the RED CEDAR is the best bet and honestly-I would prefer some type of conifer. In saying that. What would you expect to pay for each tree and I gathered spring is s good time to plant? It would border a bean field on one section and alfalfa on the other. Thanks!

DOES CP 33 allow for the cedar to be cost shared?

$40 a hundred from the Iowa State Nursery for RC and those are the large size. I would consider mixing shrubs such as wild plum with the red cedars to to the extent allowed in the CP-33 practice.

Your thoughts and ideas are dead on and will be good for both whitetails and upland birds. :way:

· [FONT=&quot]CP33 should be designed to be adjacent to cropland and is not intended as a whole field retirement practice. The “infeasible to farm” rule does not apply. See Farm Service Agency (FSA) INDIANA NOTICESCRP-04-07 and CRP-05-02 for additional guidance.[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]CP33 can be established through either natural succession, or through planting a mixture of native warm season grasses (WSG), legumes, and forbs.[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]The only cool season grasses allowed under this practice are: Canada, Riverbank, and Virginia Wildrye. Consider using the Wildrye species when shading, such as where fields are adjacent to woodlands, is a concern.[/FONT]

· [FONT=&quot]Limited tree and shrub plantings, on up to 10% of the practice acreage, are allowed.

[/FONT] · [FONT=&quot]Buffer widths will be a minimum of 30 feet and up to a maximum average width of 120 feet (measured from the edge of the field).[/FONT]

dbltree · Dec 1, 2010

Whoever decided to call these things "tree protectors" has not spent much time in Iowa!

The Protex tree tubes have performed pretty well this year and any tree tube on the market is going to be vulnerable to rut charged whitetail bucks. Most of ours have not been damaged but in corners or near crossings they have worked em over pretty good.

There is always a bright side of course! A little blurb in Quality Whitetails mentions that older bucks make more rubs and one mature buck can make 1000-1200 rubs per year or roughly 15 a day over a 90 day period. Deer herd's where an older age structure is prevalent can have over 3000 rubs per square mile!

An area with a younger age structure might only have 400-500 rubs per square mile. With those thoughts in mind it is easier to see why some landowners experience few problems with bucks rubbing trees and tree tubs while others like myself have problems to the extreme. When you build a diverse habitat program that holds mature whitetails in increasing numbers..."deer damage" can be a problem one has to deal with via fencing if you hope to keep your trees alive.

"Tree Protectors" are fastened to the end of my Gold Tip arrows around here....

IQDM · Dec 4, 2010

The nice thing about the protex tubes is that you can just snap them back together... Correct?

Tree Planting

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