letemgrow
PMA Member
Yes you sure can.
Yes you sure can.
IQDM
New Member
Phil, Do you ever combine two of those protex tube together and put them around conifers? As per your recommendations this spring, I bought the taller protex tubes then cut them in half (cheaper per foot).... I did that to put around some red osier dogwood that I am trying to get going... I also put a couple around some red and white cedars to help them stay up right and I guess protect them in general. What are your thoughts on tubing conifers?
IQDM
New Member
Is there a Red Cedar Thread that I havent seen? If not, there should be!!!! One question I have since I personally dont have nearly as many Reds as I would like, do you plant reds in a higher density than normal conifer plantings? I have had poor luck with my red cedar plantings
... more of them end up being dead brown cedars than living red cedars.:thrwrck:
letemgrow
PMA Member
I only use them combined together. An 8 inch tube makes for a healthier seedling as opposed to a 4 inch tube, especially for shrubs since they like to have multiple stems. For trees, the seedling's central stem does not have as big of a diamater with a 4 inch tube as opposed to an 8 inch tube.
The deer learn pretty quick that goodies are in those tubes so hit them hard, fast and plant as many as you can to start with, then switch them over to some type of fencing once they get out of the tubes. I like old hog wire fencing (not hard to find in farm country), or buy poultry fencing so the shrubs can get a good start. That system has worked very well for me.
Never fenced or tubed a conifer, but if I was going to try it, the bigger diameter the better.
dbltree
Super Moderator
Been there done that...stopped planting anything but red cedar for that reason.
I have been told that some Christmas tree farms are having success with Plantskydd so you might give that a try.
Plantskydd
If anyone has reports on this product please post your results
treerat
Active Member
I am not sure how your trees are configured (long row vs. block) but you may want to consider fencing them in. About 4 years ago, three of us spent a day in July putting a rough, but effective, fence around an acre of my freshly planted pines and spruce trees. We used recycled corner posts and 2x6’s for the bracing. For the main posts, we pounded in 5 foot steel T-posts and wired a second T-post to it to extend the overall post height to 8 feet. We used recycled 5 foot and 6 foot woven wire along the bottom with two strands of steel electric fence (not powered) above that to get to 8 feet.
So far, we have been successful in excluding deer (and rabbits) from these trees for 4 years, although I think my TSI contractor took out the single strand wire in a one spot this past November. I need to get up there and do some quick fence repair so it remains effective. A side benefit is that it also makes for a nice funnel during bow season.
<O</OI have avoided planting White Pines for this reason too, although they are a nice tree to have if you don't mind the extra work. Over the years I went with Red Pine, Jack Pine and various spruce. They leave them alone except the bucks like to spar with them. In the sourthern part of the UP so we have some decent deer densitites to contend with.
This link can give some guidance deending on your goals (attraction or screen) http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12148-61306--,00.html
This link talks about protecting white pine, I've never tried it, but have seen it done in several state parks. http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/treecare/whitepine/tending.html
At any rate if your trees are hitting 5 feet, the deer must be having a rough year to be after them now. Hopefully just a temporary set back, I've seen trees and shrubs browsed pretty hard and they can still come back.
Thanks for the suggestions... I have two rows of spruce and one row of white and red pines around the perimeter of the property as a screen... I don't have the problem with the deer eating them but a big problem with rubbing them... Don't seem to bother the spruce as much... I will probably try some red cedars this year... Thanks again for the suggestions... I used to be a landscaper and from my experience didn't have much luck with the repellents like plantskydd but i never used that specific product...
dbltree
Super Moderator
Rubbing them is exactly what I have endured as well but red cedars seem to be the only conifer they don't often bother.
Good luck with your plantings!:way:
HannibalBowhunter
New Member
My Norway Spruces have gotten hammered in the last few weeks. It happened right after I sprayed them with "Deer Away". At first I had to check the bottle because I thought with the way they were eating them that I must have sprayed them with Cmere deer instead! Then I realized that when I sprayed them I also uncovered them from the foxtail that was growing around them. I think this just allowed the deer to find them more readily. Regardless I am frustrated because these spruce are part of a windbreak near where we are planning to build our house in a few years and I really wanted them to get a headstart. Am I correct that these spruce will not come back after browsing down to a twig? I guess I will have to replant this spring and cage them all! I still dont understand because the dee have PLENTY of food around here and supposedly the norways were more 'deer resistant'! Live and learn!
dbltree
Super Moderator
I have had severely rubbed Norway's recover but browsing is another story? From my experience I think most people will have to fence spruce and pines to protect them...
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
pine/spruce
On one of my farms in MN, the deer winter in and around my 40 acres. They hammer the pines, but leave the spruce trees for the most part. I have maybe 20 scotch pine and norway pines that survived out of 200. I have switched to spruce exclusively on that farm.
Personally, I really like a combination of red pine and white spruce, along with cedar, but if deer "winter" in the area, it is a waste of time to plant pine.
On one of my farms in MN, the deer winter in and around my 40 acres. They hammer the pines, but leave the spruce trees for the most part. I have maybe 20 scotch pine and norway pines that survived out of 200. I have switched to spruce exclusively on that farm.
Personally, I really like a combination of red pine and white spruce, along with cedar, but if deer "winter" in the area, it is a waste of time to plant pine.
letemgrow
PMA Member
Here is a chart that can help one decide which shrub/tree seedlings to plant where. It shows each soil type and the suitable species for them.
http://www.iowadnr.gov/forestry/files/woodland_suitability.pdf
For instance, I have nodaway silt CSG (3), gara loam CSG (3) and adair loam CSG (1) and here are the suitable species for group each:
•
For CSG 1's (Adair for me)
http://www.iowadnr.gov/forestry/files/woodland_suitability.pdf
For instance, I have nodaway silt CSG (3), gara loam CSG (3) and adair loam CSG (1) and here are the suitable species for group each:
CSG 3 (Nodaway silt for me)
Well Drained
Moist Loamy
These deep medium
textured soils are
moderately well or well
drained. These soils
typically contain 18-35%
clay in the series control
section. They are
typically neutral or
slightly acidic and have
high available water
capacity.
Suitability of this soil for:
Upland Oaks = very high
Conifers = very high
Bottomland Hardwoods
= very high
SI = 76-85
Production = 250-300
board feet/acre/year
Hardwoods suitable
for plantings consist
of:
Well Drained
Moist Loamy
These deep medium
textured soils are
moderately well or well
drained. These soils
typically contain 18-35%
clay in the series control
section. They are
typically neutral or
slightly acidic and have
high available water
capacity.
Suitability of this soil for:
Upland Oaks = very high
Conifers = very high
Bottomland Hardwoods
= very high
SI = 76-85
Production = 250-300
board feet/acre/year
Hardwoods suitable
for plantings consist
of:
•
Black Oak
•
Bur Oak
•
Chinkapin Oak
•
Red Oak
•
Swamp White Oak
•
White Oak
•
Black Ash
•
Shrubs suitable for
plantings consist of:
plantings consist of:
Crabapple
•
Dogwood, Gray
•
Dogwood, Silky
•
Dogwood, Redosier
•
Elderberry
•
Hawthorn
•
Hazelnut
•
Highbush Cranberry
•
Nanking Cherry (nn)
•
Nannyberry
•
Ninebark
•
E. Redbud
•
For CSG 1's (Adair for me)
CSG Description Hardwoods Evergreens Shrubs
1
Moderately
Wet
These deep soils are
somewhat poorly drained
with a seasonal high
water table of 1 to 3.5
feet during the growing
season (unless artificially
drained). They contain
less than 5% calcium
carbonate. Soils are
typically neutral to
moderately acid.
Suitability of this soil for:
Upland Oaks =
moderately high
Conifers = low
Bottomland Hardwoods
= high
SI= 56-65
Production = 150-199
board feet/acre/year
Hardwoods suitable
for plantings consist
of:
•
1
Moderately
Wet
These deep soils are
somewhat poorly drained
with a seasonal high
water table of 1 to 3.5
feet during the growing
season (unless artificially
drained). They contain
less than 5% calcium
carbonate. Soils are
typically neutral to
moderately acid.
Suitability of this soil for:
Upland Oaks =
moderately high
Conifers = low
Bottomland Hardwoods
= high
SI= 56-65
Production = 150-199
board feet/acre/year
Hardwoods suitable
for plantings consist
of:
•
Bur Oak
•
Pin Oak
•
Swamp White Oak
•
Black Ash
•
Green Ash
•
Walnut (consult
forester)
•
Pecan (consult
forester)
•
Hackberry
These are some examples...not the whole list.
Last edited:
dbltree
Super Moderator
I tried that on a runway I didn't want them to use but they were running through it three days later...
Might work but I would hate to risk losing a mess of nice trees over it so keep a close eye on them.
Thanks for posting the link and soil adaptability Phil! :way:
Nontypcl1
Member
Anyone with experience planting highbush cranberry? I'm just wondering if I'll need to protect them from deer browse. I don't believe they're very high up on a deer's preferred browse list but don't know for sure.
Just want to make sure I get the supplies to fence or tube them if needed since I've got 100 coming in late april.
Just want to make sure I get the supplies to fence or tube them if needed since I've got 100 coming in late april.
dedgeez
death from above
for what it's worth, my inlaws have a Christmas tree farm, scotch pine, Balsam fir, frazier fir, white pine. We hang little bars of soap from them, a few get rubbed hard in the fall but browse is very minimal. High concentration of deer where we are also. With that said, I also have food plots near by that may have more to do with the lack of browsing. They have been using this method for years though and it seems to work well. May want to give it a try, soap is cheap. Sorry for chiming in, but thought maybe this would be of help.
turkeyriver
PMA Member
Shrubs will usually outgrow browsing. They like to spread out so I don't think tubing is a good idea. My experience with every kind of shrub planted in a riparian is this: Most browsed- hazelnut and dogwood Least browsed- ninebark, plum, and high-bush cranberry. They all eventually grew up. Bucks love to rub them all.