Tree Planting

[dbltree]

How much of the root system needs to be saved anchor deep does one have to dig? Also how did you transport them and keep them moist? Thanks dbltree

ha...I only dug them out of the ditch and moved them a few feet to where I wanted them along the fence. I would use a 5 gallon bucket to carry them unless they are bigger the that??

The ones I moved were small so no big tap root but i don't think you'll find them to be like oak trees or anything.

 

[whitetail fanatic]

I"ve done that with hundreds of red cedars, before they start new growth in the spring. I carried a 5 gal bucket half full of water and some large plastic bags(doubled up so they wouldn't tear holes through so bad). As I dug each one up, I would dip the whole root system in the water, let it drip off excess, then place right into the bags so they would not dry out. The whole tree (tops and roots) would fit into the large plastic bags, and I could fit a lot of trees in a few bags of that size, with 10-16" tall cedars. I found the best ones to do this with were 10 to 16 inches tall. Big enough to have good growth on them, but the roots are not so big that it becomes too much work digging and replanting them. Also, survival is much higher than on larger trees since it's easier to get the whole root system and there is much less shock to the tree compared to a larger tree, even if you get the whole root system on the larger ones.

 

[dbltree]

Hybrid Oaks

Every year I can't resist planting a few hybrid oaks from Oikos Tree Crops and this year Walt and I split an order to get them at a lower price. So a while back 25 Schubur Oak and 25 Schuettes Oaks in little paper pots showed up at my doorstep. I like seedlings that arrive this way because unlike bare root seedlings it's easier to keep them from drying out while planting and they start much faster.

Oikos Tree crops

I have plum run out of places to plant oaks so I resort to planting in my hinge cuttings every spring, a great way to get oaks started and keep them somewhat protected by planting among the downed trees and tops.

I have been planting hybrid oaks from Oikos for well over a decade and in fact many trees are already producing acorns...another reason I plant them! Folks often ask if they should plant with our without the post and honestly I haven't found a difference regardless...

The only problem arises when you leave the pot exposed because curious critters will pull the entire seedling out to investigate. I always make sure the pot is completely covered when planting with pot intact.

They work great safely tucked in the downed tops where marauding bucks are less likely to bother them

I always flag them and I hope to go back and tube many of these as well.

These hybrids are not cost effective in many cases to reforest a large area but rather they are not unlike planting a fruit tree...they can produce acorns in less then 1/2 the time as conventional oaks and sweet low tannin acorns to boot! Unlikely your neighbor has any to compete with you.

In lot's of 25 they typically run $2.40-3.25 or better yet purchase acorns in the fall and start them in Rootmakers for a fraction of the cost. I currently have some Oikos chestnuts "hatching" out in Rootmaker cells. Add a 5' tree tube for 2-4 bucks and you will dramatically increase growth rates and lower browse or mortality problems.

There are other sources for hybrid oaks but few offer them in pots and fewer yet offer the selection and pricing that Oikos does. Check around however and give some hybrid oaks from the supplier of your choice...a try on your property... :way:

 

[IQDM]

thanks for clarifying IQDM. Another question for you if you don't mind, what percentage of the white cedars would you estimate survived when you sprayed right over the top and what percent survived when you sprayed around them and were careful not to get spray on the foliage?

The first time I sprayed around some white cedars with oust, about a week ago, I was not really careful about not getting it on the foliage. At that time, I was under the impression that there was no way I could harm them with this spray, especially since they were dormant. Today, I was careful not to get it on the foliage. When the time comes, I will report any difference I notice between the 2 methods. From now on, I will definitely be careful to spray around them and not over them.

thanks!

I wanted to get out and take some pictures for you guys today, but the lightning/thunder/snow storm by us kept me hiding indoors today!
I would say that 25% - 50% of the white cedars that I sprayed over the top ended up going to tree heaven. The trees that I sprayed around are mostly all still here. I would say 90%+:way:
I can't say for sure if it was the oust or simazine that killed those cedars, but I am assuming the oust just because its the stronger chemical.

I have a question for the experts here. I had an interesting offer from a local farmer. He has tons of small cedar trees from 1 ft to 2 ft tall growing all over and said I could take as many of them I want. Have any of you dug up small trees like this before and transplanted them? I assume this would be best done in the fall to not put the tree through the harsh summer after being moved. As long as you save the tap root And as much of the root system you can will the tree have a good chance? What do you recommend to wrap or place the tree in for transport? I was thinking some big lick tubs or something. Do you have to keep dirt around the roots or can they just be kept in water? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, but again this would be a late summer or early

I transplanted 300 conifers in the fall of 2009. IMO transplanting in the fall after the trees have gone dormant is the best time (even if it is hunting season:thrwrck!
They were 6 year old white pines. We used a mini excavator to just scoop them out of the ground and put them on a flatbed truck. We moved the trees a few miles down the road to a different farm. We tried to keep the dirt on the roots, but realized that it was just to darn heavy to move the trees around by hand with all the dirt on them. We ended up picking the trees up with a skid loader by putting a choker strap around the trunk. By the time the trees made it to the pre-dug holes, most of the dirt had fallen/jiggled off of the roots and the trees ended up becomming a huge bare root transplant. We got the trees in the ground asap so that the roots didnt dry out. If you are working with many (100+) smaller trees I would recommend digging out the trees then shaking the dirt off the roots. This makes them much easier to handle. Keep the roots wet by filling one of those blue small child pools with water and put it in the back of your pick-up truck. Don't overwhelm yourself, do what you can handle 10 - 20 at a time and you should be fine.
I'll try to get some pics up tomorrow of the transplanting and white cedars

 

[SDHunt24/7]

I wanted to get out and take some pictures for you guys today, but the lightning/thunder/snow storm by us kept me hiding indoors today!
I would say that 25% - 50% of the white cedars that I sprayed over the top ended up going to tree heaven. The trees that I sprayed around are mostly all still here. I would say 90%+:way:
I can't say for sure if it was the oust or simazine that killed those cedars, but I am assuming the oust just because its the stronger chemical.

I transplanted 300 conifers in the fall of 2009. IMO transplanting in the fall after the trees have gone dormant is the best time (even if it is hunting season:thrwrck!
They were 6 year old white pines. We used a mini excavator to just scoop them out of the ground and put them on a flatbed truck. We moved the trees a few miles down the road to a different farm. We tried to keep the dirt on the roots, but realized that it was just to darn heavy to move the trees around by hand with all the dirt on them. We ended up picking the trees up with a skid loader by putting a choker strap around the trunk. By the time the trees made it to the pre-dug holes, most of the dirt had fallen/jiggled off of the roots and the trees ended up becomming a huge bare root transplant. We got the trees in the ground asap so that the roots didnt dry out. If you are working with many (100+) smaller trees I would recommend digging out the trees then shaking the dirt off the roots. This makes them much easier to handle. Keep the roots wet by filling one of those blue small child pools with water and put it in the back of your pick-up truck. Don't overwhelm yourself, do what you can handle 10 - 20 at a time and you should be fine.
I'll try to get some pics up tomorrow of the transplanting and white cedars

This is very useful info. I will need to transport the trees a couple of hours, which is my main concern. I thought about using some paper or feedsack type material to wet the roots and wrap them and then place the trees into some big mineral tubs with water or something like that. I will pick a nice time in the fall when it is not hot and windy.

 

[IQDM]

This is very useful info. I will need to transport the trees a couple of hours, which is my main concern. I thought about using some paper or feedsack type material to wet the roots and wrap them and then place the trees into some big mineral tubs with water or something like that. I will pick a nice time in the fall when it is not hot and windy.

Sometimes when I get nursery stock sent to me in form of bare root transplants, they package them in cardboard boxes in a large plastic bag and the roots are wrapped in damp shredded newspaper. This may be an option for you depending on how large the trees are:way:

I walked around today and took some pictures of the trees we transplanted in the fall of 2009.

I would say that 80% of the 300 trees we transplanted have survived and of the ones that died, I think it was because they were in the wetter areas.

Since the original question was about transplanting white cedars, while walking around, I remembered that I have also transplanted a few of those as well!:way:

These were more or less done using the same method as the spruce trees and I would say the survival rate is close to 95%

These were transplanted into a poplar clear cut and have since been out grown by the new poplar sprouts. This year we had to take a saw and cut the polar's out that were too close to the cedars. The area is pretty sweet now!

 

[whitetail fanatic]

Great pics IQDM! Looks like you got some nice dogwoods around too. I was going to ask, when you sprayed oust around your trrees, did you have any mature, cool season grasses that were established there at the time you sprayed, and if so, how did they react to the oust xp? I know Paul has said he hasn't tried that much since he does it the right way and kills the cool seasons before planting. Unfortunately, in the areas I want to clean up now, the trees were planted without any preparation, so now I'm battling some tough cool season grasses. I'm not sure if I need to (or if I should?) add gly to the mix to make it more deadly to those tough, mature, cool season grasses, or if the oust alone will do the trick. I'd like to use the oust alone if I knew it would take care of them since it's cheaper and I would only need to use one chemical instead of 2. I was talking to a guy from Townsend Chemical yesterday and he said he wasn't aware that oust would do anything to established weeds/grasses, only that it would act as a pre emergence to keep seeds from germinating?? From what I've read on here and the QDM site, it sounds like oust xp is pretty potent on established grasses and weeds though?? Also, if oust does kill mature cool season grasses, how long should I expect it to take? Would it take longer than gly? I sprayed some over a week ago and I haven't noticed any yellowing or anything yet (although the weather has been very cool, so I'd expect it to take longer than normal)

thanks

 

[IQDM]

Great pics IQDM! Looks like you got some nice dogwoods around too. I was going to ask, when you sprayed oust around your trrees, did you have any mature, cool season grasses that were established there at the time you sprayed, and if so, how did they react to the oust xp? I know Paul has said he hasn't tried that much since he does it the right way and kills the cool seasons before planting. Unfortunately, in the areas I want to clean up now, the trees were planted without any preparation, so now I'm battling some tough cool season grasses. I'm not sure if I need to (or if I should?) add gly to the mix to make it more deadly to those tough, mature, cool season grasses, or if the oust alone will do the trick. I'd like to use the oust alone if I knew it would take care of them since it's cheaper and I would only need to use one chemical instead of 2. I was talking to a guy from Townsend Chemical yesterday and he said he wasn't aware that oust would do anything to established weeds/grasses, only that it would act as a pre emergence to keep seeds from germinating?? From what I've read on here and the QDM site, it sounds like oust xp is pretty potent on established grasses and weeds though?? Also, if oust does kill mature cool season grasses, how long should I expect it to take? Would it take longer than gly? I sprayed some over a week ago and I haven't noticed any yellowing or anything yet (although the weather has been very cool, so I'd expect it to take longer than normal)

thanks

Ha Ha yes Paul always seems to do it the right way:way:. Unfortunatly I never seem to have the forsight or correct planning on some of my projects and I end up forcing things at times. Yes the oust should work on its own, but it does work slower than gly. It wouldn't hurt to add gly just to be sure, I have done it before and obviously it fried the target grasses! If going straight oust keep an eye on it, if June rolls around and the cool seasons are still there then carefully spray around the trees with gly. You will be good for the rest of the season for certain then!

 

[SDHunt24/7]

Great pics

IQDM: Thanks for the great pics. Those look like some pretty good sized trees you worked with. How far did you go with them from their original home? Did you leave any of the soil around the roots?

 

[IQDM]

IQDM: Thanks for the great pics. Those look like some pretty good sized trees you worked with. How far did you go with them from their original home? Did you leave any of the soil around the roots?

We tried to leave dirt on the roots, but like I said, most of the dirt was gone by the time the trees made it to the pre-dug holes. It was very much like planting bare root transplants. we were very carefull to make sure the holes were big enough and the dirt filled in and covered all of the roots when planting. I'm sure it would have been better to plant new/ordered trees in this area, but the trees we transplanted needed a new home and we found a great spot for them:way:

 

[dbltree]

he wasn't aware that oust would do anything to established weeds/grasses, only that it would act as a pre emergence to keep seeds from germinating?? From what I've read on here and the QDM site, it sounds like oust xp is pretty potent on established grasses and weeds though??

From the label...

When applied as spray, OUST® XP controls weeds by both
pre-emergence and post-emergence activity

I dare you to spray it on you lawn to test it....

it will take longer to get a kill then with gly and longer yet at low rates but at an ounce or more per acre this stuff is wicked deadly on CSG....:way:

 

[whitetail fanatic]

it will take longer to get a kill then with gly and longer yet at low rates but at an ounce or more per acre this stuff is wicked deadly on CSG....:way:

Awesome! Thanks for the reassurance Paul!

 

[bryan]

Sorry i am sure you guys get sick of answering the same question over and over again... But this thread is so long i can't read it all... So i just planted some small bareroot spruce in a spot that i didnt prep for planting because i didnt plan on having so many trees left over... So i planted them in an area that has alot of prexisting cool season grass... From what i think i read i can either buy Oust and not directly spray the tree... I was also wondering if anybody has used Fusilade on the grass around trees and if you did could i spay that directly on the small tree because i know i could spray directly on bigger plants when i was landscaping. Thanx for the help!!!

 

[dbltree]

Fusilade will work fine and so will clethodim but you won't have any residual control.

 

[IQDM]

Planting Cuttings

If you are looking to increase your shrub population on your property there are a couple ways to do it. You can buy bare root shrubs from a tree nursery, or you can take some of your existing shrubs and make cuttings. To make a cutting, take one of the branches of a shrub about the dia. of your middle finger and Cut it into 8" - 12" pieces. Cut the bottom of the cutting at an angle so that it is easier to stick into the ground and also this helps to make sure you are not putting the cutting in upside down. It is important that the cutting is sticking out of the ground the same way it was growing on the shrub (buds pointing up).

Here are some willows that I have on an area of my land. They are great for cover and bedding and I have been working on increasing the number of them on my property by using cuttings.

I made a few hundred cuttings and put them in buckets, waiting for a nice rainy day to put them in. I find that it is easier to stick them in the ground if it is on a rainy day or the next day after a rain. The soil is softer and they just slide right in. If you are on very hard soil, the use of a dibble bar, pud, or rebar might be necessary to make a hole first.

Using a rooting hormone powder that I bought from http://www.bigrocktrees.com[/URL], I dipped the bottom end of the cutting into the powder and then stuck them into the ground about half way or so. Since this was a spur of the moment project, I have yet to spray the area with herbicide, but I will be spraying around them with round up and prowl h2o (verrrrry carefully)

If you look closely, you can see that there is growth already coming out of some of these! I had planted them only 2 weeks ago!

I am using these willows as a screen to make a deer travel route between 2 of my food plots. I have a nice brush pile on one side, but the other side is open for 50yds or so before the next sign of cover. By planting this line of cuttings at about 10ft away from the brush pile, the deer will feel very comfortable and hidden as they travel along from food plot to food plot.

 

[Trappertim]

do the deer seem to leave them alone? I know they rub them but do they browse the cuttings or when they start to develop?

 

[dbltree]

Sure different looking country then SE Iowa! My cuttings from Big Rock trees are doing well so far. :way:

I planted some Chinese Chestnuts and Sawtooth oaks for a landowner the other day, hoping to guide him to better native options next year but one thing is certain he will have plenty of diversity in his plantings!

These seedlings were perfect for the planting bar and the following shows how to use a planting bar and properly close the hole not only at the top but close off any air pockets below as well.

Be sure not to push the seedling to far down the hole

nor to high so that roots might be exposed

With seedling in place insert the bar in front

and rock it backward to close the bottom of the hole

and then back to close the front

the repeat the process again

to be certain that plenty of soil is firmly pushed against the seedling roots

Then pack the soil firmly around the top around seedling

Larger rooted seedlings can be challenging for a planting bar so keep in mind you may need a larger spade or shovel with older seedlings.

We've established fruit orchards in and around main food plots so these trees are the beginnings of "nut/acorn" orchards also planted immediately adjacent to food plots in any odd/open/hinged areas we can utilize.

I flagged each tree

and then went back and tubed them

These pics give you some idea of the under utilized areas we took advantage of

The area in fescue will become a food plot and the shingle oaks along the edge will be hinged to reduce competition and increase screening.

5' Plantra tubes were used so I stuck a Protex tube on 1 tree for a comparison.

5' vented Plantra's run about $2.80 a piece plus shipping and stakes nearly twice the cost of Protex but certainly easy to put up!

Plantra Tree Tube source

They ship flat

and very easy to handle, they just pop open by folding the crease open.

I used the fiberglass electric fence posts at roughly a buck a piece

We'll keep an eye on these and see how they pan out...

 

[IQDM]

do the deer seem to leave them alone? I know they rub them but do they browse the cuttings or when they start to develop?

It all depends on the type of cutting you are planting. I don't see much browse on willow's in my area. For this planting I won't be too worried anyways because it isn't in the highest area of deer travel (yet).

Sure different looking country then SE Iowa! My cuttings from Big Rock trees are doing well so far. :way:

Yes I'm sure things are much a lot greener down there right now!

 

[letemgrow]

Now is also a great time to identify shrubs on the farm...noticed I had quite a few wild plums growing and they really stick out this time of year with the white flowers.

 

[letemgrow]

I am pretty positive this is a shumard oak and it does not show any signs of dieback from the winters up here...I am about 2-3 hours north of its native range and if they can survive this far north, they will make a great addition for creek bottom oaks on my place.