Long_Spur_Hollow
New Member
Fall Herbicide on Shrubs
My shelter belts, that were planted in spring 2010, have quite the invasion of broadleaf weeds. Mainly: ragweed, pigweed, velvet leaf and thistle. There is also a lessor invasion of Grasses: reeds canary (spotty - but need to eradicate) and foxtail.
I would like to get this under control.
The conifer component is a mixture of white spruce, norway spruce, tamarack and cedar. The outward shrub component is: winterberry, highbush cranberry, american plum, ninebark and hazelnut.
I have had good luck spraying conifers in the fall with Glyphosate which will kill my canary grass dead - but am wondering if I can spray the above shrubs with Glyphosate...now that the leaves have turned and they are not actively growing? I have read that glypho can act through the bark on hardwoods - so perhaps this is a no-no.
My plans for this fall also include to spray the entire shelterbelt with about 4lb of simizine or atraz to get a jump on stuff for next spring. You guys OK with that? Thinking about also adding Oust ....if used in moderation - say 1 to 1.5 oz/acre, do you feel that I will be ok with the shrubs? Soil is heavy and dark.
Any other suggestions?
Thanks,
Mike
My shelter belts, that were planted in spring 2010, have quite the invasion of broadleaf weeds. Mainly: ragweed, pigweed, velvet leaf and thistle. There is also a lessor invasion of Grasses: reeds canary (spotty - but need to eradicate) and foxtail.
I would like to get this under control.
The conifer component is a mixture of white spruce, norway spruce, tamarack and cedar. The outward shrub component is: winterberry, highbush cranberry, american plum, ninebark and hazelnut.
I have had good luck spraying conifers in the fall with Glyphosate which will kill my canary grass dead - but am wondering if I can spray the above shrubs with Glyphosate...now that the leaves have turned and they are not actively growing? I have read that glypho can act through the bark on hardwoods - so perhaps this is a no-no.
My plans for this fall also include to spray the entire shelterbelt with about 4lb of simizine or atraz to get a jump on stuff for next spring. You guys OK with that? Thinking about also adding Oust ....if used in moderation - say 1 to 1.5 oz/acre, do you feel that I will be ok with the shrubs? Soil is heavy and dark.
Any other suggestions?
Thanks,
Mike
dbltree
Super Moderator
Oust is deadly on high cranberry so I would skip that unless you drop down to 1/2 ounce maybe. I use 2 quarts of simazine and 2 quarts prowl along with crop oil and it will nuke most weeds...use gly only after trees are completely dormant and leaves have dropped. I direct spray around the roots instead of over the top and then you don't run the risk of causing harm with gly although once dormant it shouldn't be a problem unless the tree has an open wound.
Long_Spur_Hollow
New Member
Fall Herbicide on Shelterbelt
Thanks for the reply. I was planning on spraying this fall, and there is a considerable amount of "trash" (weeds) around the trees & shrubs. My only option is to go right over the top of it all - not able to mow first.
In your experience - will I loose much residual herbicide action for the next growing season by doing this project this fall? Should I spray both this fall and next march to maximize effectiveness?
While I know that your suggestion of: 2qts Prowl and 2 qts Simazine, "and oil" is "per acre"...I have a question on the crop oil:
I see in earlier posts that you use crop oil at the rate of about 1/2qt per acre (based on your 3 gallon sprayer doing 1/2 acre with 1 pint of oil). My experience with crop oil is of a concentrated variety, where I only need about 1 to 1.5 qts per 100 gal of spray (with Glyphosate), and at a sprayer volume of 9.5 gallons per acre. Your rate on the oil seems quite high....or am I missing something?
Much appreciated.
Mike
Thanks for the reply. I was planning on spraying this fall, and there is a considerable amount of "trash" (weeds) around the trees & shrubs. My only option is to go right over the top of it all - not able to mow first.
In your experience - will I loose much residual herbicide action for the next growing season by doing this project this fall? Should I spray both this fall and next march to maximize effectiveness?
While I know that your suggestion of: 2qts Prowl and 2 qts Simazine, "and oil" is "per acre"...I have a question on the crop oil:
I see in earlier posts that you use crop oil at the rate of about 1/2qt per acre (based on your 3 gallon sprayer doing 1/2 acre with 1 pint of oil). My experience with crop oil is of a concentrated variety, where I only need about 1 to 1.5 qts per 100 gal of spray (with Glyphosate), and at a sprayer volume of 9.5 gallons per acre. Your rate on the oil seems quite high....or am I missing something?
Much appreciated.
Mike
dbltree
Super Moderator
You will lose some control over winter so I always reapply the following spring...remember the Oust and Gly is used in the fall to get a good kill on perennial grasses and the simazine and prowl are used in the spring to control annual weeds and grasses.
There are different crop oils and the concentrated oil requires only a few ounces versus a quart so read the label on whichever is used.
dbltree
Super Moderator
October 30th, 2011
A freak snow storm dumped over 2 feet of heavy wet snow on much of the east coast this weekend leaving 3 million without power as trees of all kinds and sizes succumbed to the heavy wet snow and toppled over on power lines, homes and cares.
Unfortunately tree orchards suffered heavy damage as well and a friend of mine in PA sent these pictures of the damage done to his chestnut and fruit trees.
Limbs snapped
and trees uprooted
Normally trees have no leaves when heavy snows hit but this early storm caught trees heavily laden with both fruit and leaves.
Most of the trees will recover with pruning and staking where needed but it is as always a good reminder to keep your habitat diverse because we never now what nature will throw at us next....
A freak snow storm dumped over 2 feet of heavy wet snow on much of the east coast this weekend leaving 3 million without power as trees of all kinds and sizes succumbed to the heavy wet snow and toppled over on power lines, homes and cares.
Unfortunately tree orchards suffered heavy damage as well and a friend of mine in PA sent these pictures of the damage done to his chestnut and fruit trees.
Limbs snapped
and trees uprooted
Normally trees have no leaves when heavy snows hit but this early storm caught trees heavily laden with both fruit and leaves.
Most of the trees will recover with pruning and staking where needed but it is as always a good reminder to keep your habitat diverse because we never now what nature will throw at us next....
letemgrow
PMA Member
Just placed me another order with the IA State Nursery...great place to deal with and their new ordering system is much easier than the old one....shipping is free for me out of state now too!!!
Ordered the song bird packet which consists of 2 bur oak, 2 white pine, 4 gray dogwoods, 4 wild plum, 4 chokecherry and 4 service berry. Great place to deal with, just wish I was in state so those seedlings could already be planted in the ground (out of state has to wait till spring).
Ordered the song bird packet which consists of 2 bur oak, 2 white pine, 4 gray dogwoods, 4 wild plum, 4 chokecherry and 4 service berry. Great place to deal with, just wish I was in state so those seedlings could already be planted in the ground (out of state has to wait till spring).
dbltree
Super Moderator
The Iowa State Forest Nursery will not be handling red cedars for a couple years due to disease problems and while there are many other sources, this is the least expensive source I have found thus far.
Chief River Nursery
If anyone locates other comparable nurseries/prices please share....
Chief River Nursery
If anyone locates other comparable nurseries/prices please share....
dbltree said:The Iowa State Forest Nursery will not be handling red cedars for a couple years due to disease problems and while there are many other sources, this is the least expensive source I have found thus far.
Chief River Nursery
If anyone locates other comparable nurseries/prices please share....
They sold me some, I guess I better call to make sure they actually have trees.
Central Iowa
Life Member
Anyone have information on direct seeding cedars?
dbltree
Super Moderator
That's a new one for me Travis but here's a place that sells seed...
Timber Management
Around here it seems like RC's "direct seed" everywhere but where I want them!
Nontypcl1
Member
My NRCS guy has been encouraging me to do a direct seeding after I finish some brush management. Dogwoods, elderberry, cedars and ninebark where all recommended. He suggested prepping the area by killing any sod and at least scratch the surface a little with a harrow or small disk then drag or lightly disc in seed
Nontypcl1
Member
The Iowa State Forest Nursery will not be handling red cedars for a couple years due to disease problems and while there are many other sources, this is the least expensive source I have found thus far.
Chief River Nursery
If anyone locates other comparable nurseries/prices please share....
After looking at their price breaks I would be willing to split an order with someone in central or south central iowa. I don't need 500 but 250-350 I can handle
jw_wildfire
New Member
Check with your district forester. They will take a look at your site for you and develop a detailed plan for you to follow. All free of charge. I have not seen any of those species direct seeded, but I am in NE Iowa and the soils are quite different than southern Iowa.
LoessHillsArcher
PMA Member
Got the shipment of ProTex tree tubes in. They can be purchased here Forestry Suppliers
I started assembling them this weekend and had a few take aways from the start of the assembly process. I thought I'd share some things I noticed and will be testing out over the next few years.
To begin with. If you order a lot remember these may come in on a semi. :? That makes delivery to certain locations (like apartments) tricky.
2nd - don't plan on assembling them using the tabs that are designed to go together with. Dbltree posted before how animals will easily open the tubes if only using the tabs to hold them together. I'm going to test little zip ties and even household staples on them... we're using wire to hold the tube to the post so those also will be used to hold the tube together. Also you can use the holes already supplied by the tabs to run the zip tie though!
In the end this will also give you a larger tube than if you used the tabs...
3rd - these tubes don't come ventilated, you'll want to drill holes in the tubes for air flow holes to allow the cool air in the tubes in the fall so the trees can properly harden off. Also a good idea to not put holes in the bottom foot or so, that way applying herbicide is a little safer. I made that mistake on the first batch I drilled... going to have to duct tape those holes up.
4th - these tubes aren't super solid, so you'll want a solid stake to hold them in it seems.
5th - assemble shiny side out
6th - when assembling them, the tubes are a bear to curl together because they are kinda deformed. So I used a few rachet straps and curled 20-30 of them up as tight as I could in a 'tube shape' and after 15 minutes they had held that shape pretty well temorarily allowing for MUCH easier assembly.
7th - About the only time I'd see it being smart to use these tubes is if you are doing a large scale planting and wanted a bit of cost savings. They are a bit cheaper than any other tube out there. Make sure to 'request a quote' on the Forestry Suppliers website and they may cut you a nice deal! However, these tubes take a bit of time to assemble. So if you're short on time I'd stear clear of these and as Paul suggested earlier, order from Mike at Timber Management and Seed He has solid, 5ft tubes, that require no assembly, are already vented, already have zip ties on them, and are $2.50 each.
But we'll post how the ProTex blue tubes work for us. We're happy with them so far and they look like they'll serve their purpose and do it very well!
I started assembling them this weekend and had a few take aways from the start of the assembly process. I thought I'd share some things I noticed and will be testing out over the next few years.
To begin with. If you order a lot remember these may come in on a semi. :? That makes delivery to certain locations (like apartments) tricky.
2nd - don't plan on assembling them using the tabs that are designed to go together with. Dbltree posted before how animals will easily open the tubes if only using the tabs to hold them together. I'm going to test little zip ties and even household staples on them... we're using wire to hold the tube to the post so those also will be used to hold the tube together. Also you can use the holes already supplied by the tabs to run the zip tie though!
In the end this will also give you a larger tube than if you used the tabs...
3rd - these tubes don't come ventilated, you'll want to drill holes in the tubes for air flow holes to allow the cool air in the tubes in the fall so the trees can properly harden off. Also a good idea to not put holes in the bottom foot or so, that way applying herbicide is a little safer. I made that mistake on the first batch I drilled... going to have to duct tape those holes up.
4th - these tubes aren't super solid, so you'll want a solid stake to hold them in it seems.
5th - assemble shiny side out
6th - when assembling them, the tubes are a bear to curl together because they are kinda deformed. So I used a few rachet straps and curled 20-30 of them up as tight as I could in a 'tube shape' and after 15 minutes they had held that shape pretty well temorarily allowing for MUCH easier assembly.
7th - About the only time I'd see it being smart to use these tubes is if you are doing a large scale planting and wanted a bit of cost savings. They are a bit cheaper than any other tube out there. Make sure to 'request a quote' on the Forestry Suppliers website and they may cut you a nice deal! However, these tubes take a bit of time to assemble. So if you're short on time I'd stear clear of these and as Paul suggested earlier, order from Mike at Timber Management and Seed He has solid, 5ft tubes, that require no assembly, are already vented, already have zip ties on them, and are $2.50 each.
But we'll post how the ProTex blue tubes work for us. We're happy with them so far and they look like they'll serve their purpose and do it very well!
LoessHillsArcher
PMA Member
Man I was really starting to regret the decision to get these tubes before trying the rachet strap molding deal... helps a bunch!
Nontypcl1
Member
Good advice on the Protex tubes.
I recently purchased some of the rigid mesh tubes from Ben meadows for this fall's tree planting and I sure regret it now. In about 3 days time the deer either knocked over or shredded 1/2 of the 200 tubes I put on. This is right along a road and close to a house! After fixing those I decided to check on the shrub planting I did this past spring in my sanctuary where I used the mesh tubes as well. I hadn't been in there since spraying for weeds this past spring and man was I disappointed. Out of the 300 I put on only 50 or so were still standing. Talk about frustrating
I had questioned on whether or not to use the rigid mesh tubes after seeing dbltree's results with them. Well, I wasn't able to afford the solid tubes this year so I went the cheap route and used the mesh tubes. I will certainly never do that again. Now its actually going to cost more money and a lot more time to redo all that the deer ruined.
Darn deer anyway. I think I might just spend rest of the season hunting over top of my tree plantings and shoot every deer the even looks wrong at them
I recently purchased some of the rigid mesh tubes from Ben meadows for this fall's tree planting and I sure regret it now. In about 3 days time the deer either knocked over or shredded 1/2 of the 200 tubes I put on. This is right along a road and close to a house! After fixing those I decided to check on the shrub planting I did this past spring in my sanctuary where I used the mesh tubes as well. I hadn't been in there since spraying for weeds this past spring and man was I disappointed. Out of the 300 I put on only 50 or so were still standing. Talk about frustrating
I had questioned on whether or not to use the rigid mesh tubes after seeing dbltree's results with them. Well, I wasn't able to afford the solid tubes this year so I went the cheap route and used the mesh tubes. I will certainly never do that again. Now its actually going to cost more money and a lot more time to redo all that the deer ruined.
Darn deer anyway. I think I might just spend rest of the season hunting over top of my tree plantings and shoot every deer the even looks wrong at them