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Brassicas

deerhunter93

Well-Known Member
On July 28 I sprayed and broadcasted a brassica mix into standing grass/weeds in a few small areas and we got a real good rain the next day. The grass and weeds were roughly mid shin to hip high in places (see photos). Is there any chance the brassicas do ok or should I mow/weed eat the dead vegetation now to try and get more sun to the surface?

Or do you think I should just burn it and re-seed? I haven't checked on it since so I have no clue what it looks like. I'll be looking to get some nitrogen on it as well.

Thanks!
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IowaBowHunter1983

Super Moderator
Staff member
On July 28 I sprayed and broadcasted a brassica mix into standing grass/weeds in a few small areas and we got a real good rain the next day. The grass and weeds were roughly mid shin to hip high in places (see photos). Is there any chance the brassicas do ok or should I mow/weed eat the dead vegetation now to try and get more sun to the surface?

Or do you think I should just burn it and re-seed? I haven't checked on it since so I have no clue what it looks like. I'll be looking to get some nitrogen on it as well.

Thanks!
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c7ec9b43a06fb9ed3de939edc70175f5.jpg


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I would NOT mow it unless you are going to start over. The trash/clippings will smother the brassicas. As long as you get a good kill the brassicas should grow up thru what will become dead vegetation. My only concern is seed to soil contact in your scenario.
 

deerhunter93

Well-Known Member
I would NOT mow it unless you are going to start over. The trash/clippings will smother the brassicas. As long as you get a good kill the brassicas should grow up thru what will become dead vegetation. My only concern is seed to soil contact in your scenario.
I was wondering about that as well. Sounds good to me. I'll check it here in the next week or so and see if anything took and go from there.

When I was spraying I was able to see a fair amount of soil and we had a pretty heavy rain the next day so I'm hoping some seed got worked in. If it doesn't take I'll just do rye and clover and call it good.

Thanks!

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Tmayer13

PMA Member
I was wondering about that as well. Sounds good to me. I'll check it here in the next week or so and see if anything took and go from there.

When I was spraying I was able to see a fair amount of soil and we had a pretty heavy rain the next day so I'm hoping some seed got worked in. If it doesn't take I'll just do rye and clover and call it good.

Thanks!

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I would also think you could run a cultipacker over it to help push the seed down and also help terminate the existing weeds...kind of like a crimper but youve already terminated with the herbicide
 

Bassattackr

Active Member
Hmm.. The tried and true methods (if spraying) are..

- Spray, seed and mow same day (TnM).
- Spray, wait 2 weeks then burn and seed same day.

Cultipack optional for either.

At this point, it's been 5-6 days after your initial rain so the seed is germinated. I don't think cultipacking would help at this point, and would do more damage than good (likely crushing the new seed sprouts). I'm going to go against the grain here, I would mow and not cultipack. Mower will be above the new sprouts, you don't have enough trash to smother the new growth IMO. It will open up the canopy a lot more than you realize.

As far as N goes, unless you have a rain coming in less than 24 hours, I wouldn't use Urea (46-0-0), rather ammonium nitrate (34-0-0), more stabile preventing leaching into atmosphere..
 

IowaBowHunter1983

Super Moderator
Staff member
Hmm.. The tried and true methods (if spraying) are..

- Spray, seed and mow same day (TnM).
- Spray, wait 2 weeks then burn and seed same day.

Cultipack optional for either.

At this point, it's been 5-6 days after your initial rain so the seed is germinated. I don't think cultipacking would help at this point, and would do more damage than good (likely crushing the new seed sprouts). I'm going to go against the grain here, I would mow and not cultipack. Mower will be above the new sprouts, you don't have enough trash to smother the new growth IMO. It will open up the canopy a lot more than you realize.

As far as N goes, unless you have a rain coming in less than 24 hours, I wouldn't use Urea (46-0-0), rather ammonium nitrate (34-0-0), more stabile preventing leaching into atmosphere..
I don't recommend spray and mow same day. Herbicide needs time to translocate to root system. Don't recommend mowing at all for that matter unless you are going to light it on fire and or work it in. Way too much thatch.
 

Bassattackr

Active Member
I don't recommend spray and mow same day. Herbicide needs time to translocate to root system. Don't recommend mowing at all for that matter unless you are going to light it on fire and or work it in. Way too much thatch.

Good point, spray and roll on same pass.. not mow. I agree, more time is better when spraying, but he's already gotten a kill so moot point perhaps..

In the Ag world, many plant green and terminate (whether it be mechanically or chemically) on the same day (again some on the same pass), it doesn't make a difference.

Regarding mowing, I had a (much larger) field very similar to the OPs, when I rotary mowed it released the clover and other species underneath. I agree if you have a dense thatch it's not ideal, but you'll find when you eliminate the canopy, you will have an almost instant response. Just sharing my experiences..

You could also wait a while to mow, once the seed is up a bit and then rotary mow over the top.

dh93 - Good luck either way you choose.
 
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IowaBowHunter1983

Super Moderator
Staff member
Good point, spray and roll on same pass.. not mow. I agree, more time is better when spraying, but he's already gotten a kill so moot point perhaps..

In the Ag world, many plant green and terminate (whether it be mechanically or chemically) on the same day (again some on the same pass), it doesn't make a difference.

Regarding mowing, I had a (much larger) field very similar to the OPs, when I rotary mowed it released the clover and other species underneath. I agree if you have a dense thatch it's not ideal, but you'll find when you eliminate the canopy, you will have an almost instant response. Just sharing my experiences..

You could also wait a while to mow, once the seed is up a bit and then rotary mow over the top.

dh93 - Good luck either way you choose.
Yup, no issue panting and spraying same day. I plant most of my beans, as an example, into green and spray later. Great point.
 

Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
This is the WORST case on grasses. I knew this spot was a “grass mess” waiting to happen. I sprayed it 2 times pre-plant. See all the dead grass?!?!? Drilled in brassicas & still loaded with grass. (I had to adjust drill depth- not best pic on depth- to left is shallower).
I did find the few spots low on brassica plants & lightly added a a bit more with bag spreader. Easy!!

This will likely be TWO sprayings with clethodim & crop oil…..
1st) kill the grass so the turnips & radish can utilize the N that’s there. The grasses will likely creep back as brassicas are getting bigger.
2nd) before the brassicas canopy over- I’ll hit it again. Then by time they come back- brassicas will choke out new grass.

next year: be either beans or clover here….. going to run a full season of killing the grasses. Then I’ll run this section as the Dbltree cereal rye mix NEXT YEAR.
Wanted to show u all a challenging plot & ONE METHOD of dealing with it.

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Jwest

Member
Spread urea on my quarter acre brassica/radish plot before a 50% chance of rain. Well, rain never came. I don’t see any of the urea on top of soil anymore so I am guessing it evaporated. No signs of fertilizer burn. Would you guys try applying again?


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Tmayer13

PMA Member
Spread urea on my quarter acre brassica/radish plot before a 50% chance of rain. Well, rain never came. I don’t see any of the urea on top of soil anymore so I am guessing it evaporated. No signs of fertilizer burn. Would you guys try applying again?


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Yes mostly likely gone...some other options would be getting some treated urea from the coop (could be difficult to find) or you could find some liquid and spray it on...there's plenty of products out there and a quick Google search will help you find it....I have also recently heard a podcast with the owner of Killer Food Plots, and they have a product that is a spray as well...

But yes to answer your question I would definitely make sure you get some fertilizer put on it if you did not apply any at planting

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Bassattackr

Active Member
Yes, good portion gone. Warm temperatures and lack of rain accelerate Urea losses when it’s unincorporated, up to 40% loss when you have both factors working against you.

For that reason, Urea (46-0-0) is always risky to top dress. You need about 1/3” rain in the initial 24 hours to prevent losses. I only use Urea at the time of planting when I can disc / till it in.

For top dressing a straight N source, AMS (21-0-0-24) is much more stable and as a bonus also provides sulfur. It is also among the most acidifying N sources for your soil however compared to Urea, and other nitrogen fertilizers. Offsetting lime more than others..
 
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Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
Hope you get to it soon & turns out. Dbltree cereal next if this doesn’t look promising soon. Which is a great mix.

REMINDER TO ANYONE: :) TREATED UREA!!! Cheapest insurance known to man!!!
“can’t go to coop for treated”….. ok- go buy a jug of Agritain treatment & treat yourself. Not hard.
or liquid N. Don’t even mess with non treated urea. If you are tearing up your soil to cover urea…. That Will do it. BUT- LONG TERM this will not have all the vast benefits of no till & u will most likely damage the soil/plot in many cases.

***last “deep in the weeds” stuff - for hardcore guys or those wanting to understand soil…. & willing to possibly do soil test…
on ammonium sulfate for a fertilizer…. Above is right- it eats calcium & lime…. High ratio. So- u need to: 1) know your PH & get FULL soil analysis (micros too) 2) when using XYZ amount of sulfur - apply proper lime/calcium…. A soil sample analysis will give you rates.
A lot of areas are low PH where lime is needed. Those same areas are also sulfur deficient. Very very common. Sulfur deficiency has increased due to reduced sulfur emissions in atmosphere (which is good) but it’s created more sulfur deficiency in soil. Need lime & sulfur at right ratios. GET SOIL TEST if you wanna do this right…. This will give you a simple plan forward.
 

Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
Yup, no issue panting and spraying same day. I plant most of my beans, as an example, into green and spray later. Great point.
I like to spray one time in advance for folks that like to broadcast. Spray Gly & 2-4,d at least a week before. 2 weeks be better. Can seed into nice open dead thatch. Seed to soil is pretty darn good. Spray with Gly anything that’s green for whatever reason & a rate to make sure u cook it.
I don’t need fire. I personally don’t want fire (losing Organic matter, rising soil temps with continued black exposed soil, etc). If I did do fire- be a one time thing.

return later in season with stinger or cleth & crop oil if needed based on weeds. Done.

That’s broadcast though. & brassicas. Ya- soybeans sure are nice!!! Plant into green & u could spray the same day or even later & be set
 

IowaBowHunter1983

Super Moderator
Staff member
Last minute plot this weekend. Half was hedge I ripped out. Other half was 4' grass that I burned off. Its below a pond and stays moist for whatever reason. Skipped the PTT and went radish being later in season. Some clover too. Will add some rye later after I spray cleth when new grass pops up. Drove over every square inch with tractor tires as I didn't have packer with me. About as good of seed bed as you can ask for.

***Would/will be very easy to water from pond above in future. Upper pic is from pond dam.

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Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
I wonder if it is safe for clover, switch, etc.
Maybe. Check out label. U have 2,4-d & atrazine for switch so not needed there. 2,4-d-b, Butyrac, for broadleaves in clover. I’m sure it’s labeled for a bunch of crops though.
Actually- here u go…
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