Cereal Grains and cover crops

dbltree · May 29, 2014

stevep said:
At what time is it that the rye starts to produce viable seed?

Thanks!

It varies but check seed head and kill before seeds are fully formed

iowathumper · May 29, 2014

If already have a rye plot about to head out. Wondering if I wanted to replant it again can I just leave it alone, let it drop it seeds and then drill in the rest of the mix (clover, ghr)

dbltree · May 29, 2014

iowathumper said:
If already have a rye plot about to head out. Wondering if I wanted to replant it again can I just leave it alone, let it drop it seeds and then drill in the rest of the mix (clover, ghr)

It will be way to thick like planting 40 bushel per acre instead of 1, not to mention being way to early

stevep · May 29, 2014

Ok... so here's a stupid question... My rye plot has gone nuts. It's at least 5' tall, if not more. The only sprayer that I have is an ATV mounted sprayer, which sits about 3.5 feet off the ground. Will it still kill the rye if I just motor right through it with the sprayer on?

(I can't believe how insanely thick / tall the rye is.... really cool.)

Steve

iowathumper · May 30, 2014

I think you are going to want to be above the rye or you will not get everything sprayed.
I have an extension on my setup that allows me to raise the height above Rye.

I sprayed mine yesterday! I used this method last year and had good success.
That rye really looks good and I would love to leave it up, would make great bedding cover.

MO-APE · May 31, 2014

stevep said:
Ok... so here's a stupid question... My rye plot has gone nuts. It's at least 5' tall, if not more. The only sprayer that I have is an ATV mounted sprayer, which sits about 3.5 feet off the ground. Will it still kill the rye if I just motor right through it with the sprayer on? (I can't believe how insanely thick / tall the rye is.... really cool.) Steve

I have a trailer mounted 40 gallon ATV sprayer and drove through 5-6 feet tall rye last season and got an amazing kill. The quad will push over the stalks and get plenty of gly on them for a kill.

stevep · May 31, 2014

MO-APE said:
I have a trailer mounted 40 gallon ATV sprayer and drove through 5-6 feet tall rye last season and got an amazing kill. The quad will push over the stalks and get plenty of gly on them for a kill.

View attachment 2450

Wow... you're not kidding! Thanks.

Steve

dbltree · Jun 12, 2014

June 12th, 2014

The past couple falls have been exceptionally dry and clover seeded with the rye, to often failed which meant we had no nitrogen source. Interestingly however the hairy vetch not survived, it thrived!

Winter rye and hairy vetch together make for cover crop supreme, capable of growing on nearly any type of soil or condition.

Rye grows nearly 400 miles of root symptoms and HV can fix upwards of 200# of nitrogen per acre providing all the nitrogen needs for brassicas to follow

This combination works extremely well for those with a no-till drill, simply spray with gly or roll flat with lawn roller of cultipacker

Hairy Vetch seed source

Our fall seed mix will be like this

Winter rye 50#
Spring oats 50#
Frostmaster Winter Peas 25#
Hairy Vetch 25#
Red Clover 8#
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

turkeyriver · Jun 12, 2014

Did someone mention no-till drill?

Is the hairy vetch winter hardy up north here?

turkeyriver · Jun 12, 2014

Are the seeds huge? Is that why so many lbs. per acre? Will they go thru small seed box or mix with rye in big box?

dbltree · Jun 12, 2014

turkeyriver said:
Are the seeds huge? Is that why so many lbs. per acre? Will they go thru small seed box or mix with rye in big box?

Very winter hardy, about the size of pea seed, we mix rye, oats, peas and vetch in large seed box.

Suggested planting rate is 30# +/-10# lower end when mixed with rye etc.

dbltree · Jun 19, 2014

June 19th, 2014

Jess planted these oats and annual clovers in May... they grow fast! These have not headed out yet but they can be mowed anytime now

The berseem and crimson clover are doing great, preferably clip oats just above the clover

The tender annual clover are very attractive to whitetails and provide all the N needs for the rye mix to follow

One strip was sprayed by mistake with the clethodim & gly mix that we spray the winter rye and red clover with...... no oats to clip here!

It appears the annual clovers will survive the very small dose of glyphosate

Keeping legumes growing is a great way to avoid buying and handling expensive urea as well as keeping our whitetails fat and happy to boot

dbltree · Jul 1, 2014

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Time to mow/shred the rye straw to prepare for planting brassicas

The rye can also be rolled flat if you have a no till drill

These pictures are from earlier when spraying clethodim to kill the rye

This is why we spray to kill the rye in late May, early June and mow early July the rye is full of fawns!! Winter rye helps increase fawn recruitment because it's the kind of environment predators hate.

The clover planted with the rye last fall not only fixes free nitrogen for the brassicas but creates the the kind of environment does love! Thick cover and a lush high protein food source...... what's not to like??

Lactating does aren't the only thing that loves rye and clover

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or crimson and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot...we use 50# each rye, oats and peas along with radish and clover seed all planted in half of each feeding area

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre

Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28 but for best results soil test and add only what is necessary.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

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DeerHunter3 · Jul 1, 2014

When overseeding winter rye into soybeans in august/September, can I expect the rye to get 5' tall or what? Im new to the food plot world and I guess I didn't expect rye to be so tall?

Daver · Jul 1, 2014

DeerHunter3 said:
When overseeding winter rye into soybeans in august/September, can I expect the rye to get 5' tall or what? Im new to the food plot world and I guess I didn't expect rye to be so tall?

Cereal rye planted in late Aug/early Sept will not grow anywhere near 5' tall in the fall. Unless we have an almost complete lack of rain, you should get rye growing right away that fall that is maybe 6"(inches) tall, unless it is being nipped even shorter than that. The rye will normally grow throughout October and into November and then go dormant for the winter, probably in early November or so. It will lay dormant for the winter, although deer will still scrounge what they can find in the rye field and then start growing again the following spring, usually in late Feb/early March as the soil and air temps warm up.

So rye is the usually the last thing growing in the fall and the first thing growing again in the spring. Your late summer/early fall planted rye will then grow like crazy starting in late April/early May. Within 2-4 weeks of that rapid growth in May is when you will have the 5' tall rye

kjohn15 · Jul 7, 2014

Due to heavy hunting pressure from other parties on a farm we started the mix on last year, we had decided not to spend the time and money to continue the rotation while others reaped the rewards. That was until about 2 weeks ago when we discovered that the other parties will not be hunting the farm anymore and we will be the only hunters during bow season. Now we have a plot with fully mature rye with a very tall thick carpet of red clover underneath it and a half that filled in with grass where the brassicas were. What should we do with the 45% rye mix part of the rotation? The old brassica half was sprayed this weekend with roundup and we are planning on just fertilizing it and putting brassicas back in. Unfortunately we won't reap the benefit of the nitrogen from the clover, but that's ok i guess. Should we just drag the harrow over the rye/clover to flatten it a bit and clip it with a mower and let it reseed itself?

We have an ATV, a drag harrow, riding lawn mower, weedeaters, and other typical lawn care items. Last year we were also able to use a Kasco drill behind the atv to plant the plot from a local County Conservation board. Other than that we don't have a lot of equipment. Thanks for any help or guidance you can provide.

dbltree · Jul 7, 2014

Follow the posted directions and if you have more questions we'll help you out, remember pictures are posted thru out showing exactly what to do

kjohn15 · Jul 10, 2014

I guess my main question is should we just leave the rotation the same as last year now since the rye seeded out?

dbltree · Jul 10, 2014

kjohn15 said:
I guess my main question is should we just leave the rotation the same as last year now since the rye seeded out?

No, plant 1/2 to brassicas and spray volunteer rye with clehthodim when it comes up

Bullbuster · Jul 22, 2014

I am getting ready to order my seed for my fall plots & especially the cereal grain rotation. So as to limit the different kind of seed that I need to order, can I use Crimson Clover for my "fall red clover" and my spring "soil builder red clover". This fall I will use your most recent recipe including rye,wheat, FM winter peas & GH radishes as well. Thanks

Cereal Grains and cover crops

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