OFFENSE!! 2 Bills to support!! SF 293 & SF 247 EMAIL IN!!! What a great change!!!!

[breckhawk]

I have 140 acres. I will go on record that I will not shoot 3 bucks. I support no land owner tags. But that will never pass. Like Skip has said, we have to start somewhere. We have to stop with what do I want for me in this exact situation and make moves that are for the betterment overall BECAUSE that will actually lead to what is best for me and you long term.

Sadly many more people are sliding to the best for me short term decision in deer hunting and many other things in life.

I needed a reminder of why I don't post often. Gaslighting posts like this in a debate thread are ridiculous and help nobody. Telling smaller parcel owners that will be affected that we need to grin and bear it because we have to start somewhere...all while pinky swearing that you will do the right thing in itself is hilarious.

Then following it up with insinuating that many of us on this side of the argument make the best short term decisions for themselves in other 'things in life' is not just gaslighting...it's turning on the gas pump and spraying it full throttle on us.

If you needed any more proof that a bill like this will divide rather than unite hunters....well here ya go.

 

[Ishi]

Make Iowa a two buck state. Now if a landowner wants a LOT whether he has 2 acres or 10,000 acres let them have it but now you only get 1 state wide tag. Next remove tenant tags to help with the abuse of the system.
This is fair to everyone and everyone will give up something for the better cause!

 

[2-bucks]

I needed a reminder of why I don't post often. Gaslighting posts like this in a debate thread are ridiculous and help nobody. Telling smaller parcel owners that will be affected that we need to grin and bear it because we have to start somewhere...all while pinky swearing that you will do the right thing in itself is hilarious.

Then following it up with insinuating that many of us on this side of the argument make the best short term decisions for themselves in other 'things in life' is not just gaslighting...it's turning on the gas pump and spraying it full throttle on us.

If you needed any more proof that a bill like this will divide rather than unite hunters....well here ya go.

Sorry breckhawk. Gaslighting involves someone lying. I'm telling the truth. GWB ask if anyone with more than 40 acres was willing to go on record and commit to not getting a 3rd buck tag. I am and I'm dead serious. You may or may not believe me and that's okay. I don't want it to sound like I expect you to grin and bear it while I'm unaffected. I'm willing to grin and bear it. I am actually on record (at least on posts here) that I will state again. I am for removing ALL landowner tags, mine included. That is unlikely to happen because most people are not willing to give anything up, but I am in full support of it.

Now...are landowner tags the root of all deer heard quality issues in Iowa? Heck no, but like Skip and others have stated if we don't start somewhere and chip away at a bigger issue, we never make any progress and we never reach the final goal. Again this applies to this specific issue and many other more important things in life.

 

[booneriverbucks]

expand more on this if you can. To run an organization, it takes capital. To have a paid lobbyist be present to be on top of these discussions at the capital, it takes capital. The reason why companies like that ask for resources, is because it takes resources in most cases to do what's needed to help make a difference. The Board of ISC is ran by individuals that are everyday outdoorsman with the future of Iowa in mind. Are you saying the organizations that supported this bill aren't worth supporting in general because of the little guy verse big guy debate? Like stated by Skip and others, when trying to help, can't help but make someone mad, an as a result take good intentions and make them appear as bad.

Have you written in? Been publicly present to sway these bills in the direction you are passionate about? Written to the ISC to open a discussion on ways to better represent landowners of not just big parcels but yours as well since it seemed to cause questions of why you ever chose to support? I know the ISC twice has asked for opinions, topics, and discussions to better understand the general populations wants, and will again run a survey soon for issues/topics. And again, it's almost a brand-new organization that (biased here maybe since I sit on the board) outside of IBA and skip, I really haven't seen too many (hardly any) take the hard to find time, money or initiative with seeing the direction Iowa and our legislation has been going in regard to our whitetails to do much about it aside from online chat forums.

genuinely sorry to see you feel the way you did to write that about the ISC, hopefully actions on future issues can help change that perspective on not just ISC but other organizations taking action.

I’ve done a bunch of what you have mentioned!!! Very happy to see the response of ISC even if it is after the fact!!! Hopefully in the future they ask for our input before using our money against us!! I care about ISC and want them to continue to grow and attract new members and get even more money out of current members! I do not believe this will happen if people start to feel they have a predetermined agenda.

 

[2-bucks]

Make Iowa a two buck state. Now if a landowner wants a LOT whether he has 2 acres or 10,000 acres let them have it but now you only get 1 state wide tag. Next remove tenant tags to help with the abuse of the system.
This is fair to everyone and everyone will give up something for the better cause!

This is also a great option.

 

[booneriverbucks]

Serious question. What does how much ground is (or was) have anything to do with a reasonable acreage discussion about getting a 3rd buck tag? 2 acres was never reasonable, imo. Not when ground was $500/a. Not if it's $25,000/a. Irrelevant. The price of ground doesn't or shouldn't enter into a conversation about the resource.

Secondly, who are these older generations you speak of making statements or doing anything related to status? I'm really perplexed by this comment cuz I haven't seen it or heard it anywhere. If I did, I'd have a serious problem with it and say so.

Plenty of old dudes complaining about how hard they worked for what they have that are pissed about a guy that owns a few less acres than they have even tho they paid 5X the price only a few years later. I guess the younger generation just isn’t quite up to the standards of the older ones that have had a huge part in any perceived degradation in deer hunting. Once again the older better off generation takes no blame and passes the buck. This bill helps “squash” their new competition and keeps them on top. If you don’t see an older generation sitting on their high horse you have blinders on. Don’t be fooled by these people!!! We’ve all heard it before. They all worked so hard and life was so rough!!! I’ve personally heard that enough in my life.

We could all buy a 40 with absolutely zero habitat in order to qualify for a tag and then use our tags wherever we want on any other land we own. The argument that money plays no factor is not valid at all

 

[JNRBRONC]

Plenty of old dudes complaining about how hard they worked for what they have that are pissed about a guy that owns a few less acres than they have even tho they paid 5X the price only a few years later. I guess the younger generation just isn’t quite up to the standards of the older ones that have had a huge part in any perceived degradation in deer hunting. Once again the older better off generation takes no blame and passes the buck. This bill helps “squash” their new competition and keeps them on top. If you don’t see an older generation sitting on their high horse you have blinders on. Don’t be fooled by these people!!! We’ve all heard it before. They all worked so hard and life was so rough!!! I’ve personally heard that enough in my life.

Weren't you throwing around the "comrade" barb at people in previous posts? I'm sensing a tad bit of hypocrisy. The above can come off as a little anti-capitalistic.

 

[booneriverbucks]

Haha.

Weren't you throwing around the "comrade" barb at people in previous posts? I'm sensing a tad bit of hypocrisy. The above can come off as a little anti-capitalistic.

haha!! Yes!! Whether it is promises of a communist Utopia or the using of big government to squash your competition it is all the same!! Either way people use force/government to keep their competition down while they reap the benefits!! Thanks for pointing that out!!

The utopia never exists. It always ends up as a rigged system to benefit a select few. Even if the “good for all” is promised.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Plenty of old dudes complaining about how hard they worked for what they have that are pissed about a guy that owns a few less acres than they have even tho they paid 5X the price only a few years later. I guess the younger generation just isn’t quite up to the standards of the older ones that have had a huge part in any perceived degradation in deer hunting. Once again the older better off generation takes no blame and passes the buck. This bill helps “squash” their new competition and keeps them on top. If you don’t see an older generation sitting on their high horse you have blinders on. Don’t be fooled by these people!!! We’ve all heard it before. They all worked so hard and life was so rough!!! I’ve personally heard that enough in my life.

We could all buy a 40 with absolutely zero habitat in order to qualify for a tag and then use our tags wherever we want on any other land we own. The argument that money plays no factor is not valid at all

Who? Where? Provide some quotes. Cite some examples. Specifics.

 

[hillrunner]

Plenty of old dudes complaining about how hard they worked for what they have that are pissed about a guy that owns a few less acres than they have even tho they paid 5X the price only a few years later. I guess the younger generation just isn’t quite up to the standards of the older ones that have had a huge part in any perceived degradation in deer hunting. Once again the older better off generation takes no blame and passes the buck. This bill helps “squash” their new competition and keeps them on top. If you don’t see an older generation sitting on their high horse you have blinders on. Don’t be fooled by these people!!! We’ve all heard it before. They all worked so hard and life was so rough!!! I’ve personally heard that enough in my life.

We could all buy a 40 with absolutely zero habitat in order to qualify for a tag and then use our tags wherever we want on any other land we own. The argument that money plays no factor is not valid at all

Are these old dudes in the room with us right now? lol
Seriously though, I'm not much older than you and I can't think of a single old dude that fits your description. Can you point to where you are seeing the older generation hacking on the younger guys like you describe? There are jerks in every group, but I sure don't see a plethora of them in the older landowner generation.

 

[booneriverbucks]

Are you honestly going to sit there and say you never once heard this crap in your life? Just go to the latest ISC post and you’ll see plenty of guys that have had it awesome the last 30 years and totally took every advantage of living in our great state that was available to them. These guys all “worked a few extra hours” or “saved some pennies” and “sacrificed” to buy sh*t ground that was worth 1/5 to 1/10 what it is worth now while they pushed “Big Bucks Big Bucks Big Bucks” in the media the last 30 years. Complete BS!! They absolutely took advantage of the entire situation and want us to be the ones stuck holding the bag. A bunch of us have pushed the whole habitat thing and bought and sold ground we have “Improved” in order to make it more marketable. Now we are sitting there and telling people you can’t do what we did?? We reaped every benefit and pocketed every dollar from everybody that gave us money during their advancement in life and now we select few are cutting them off from the whole game. We’ve ran it so high guys with similar jobs/incomes 30 years ago couldn’t even afford a 40 today. Complete garbage. Get to the top and petition government to stop your competition. It’s the oldest trick in the book.

 

[booneriverbucks]

Are these old dudes in the room with us right now? lol
Seriously though, I'm not much older than you and I can't think of a single old dude that fits your description. Can you point to where you are seeing the older generation hacking on the younger guys like you describe? There are jerks in every group, but I sure don't see a plethora of them in the older landowner generation.

Most are silent.. Will freely admit they are at a better point in life than me and don’t have the time to deal with the squabbles of the lower class. It won’t affect them. They have better things to deal with than arguing with me on the internet. Besides their poor eyesight and fat fingers make it difficult to type on a phone. Maybe they should import millions upon millions of illegals to argue for them and do all their real work like they did for every other job that was below them.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Are you honestly going to sit there and say you never once heard this crap in your life? Just go to the latest ISC post and you’ll see plenty of guys that have had it awesome the last 30 years and totally took every advantage of living in our great state that was available to them. These guys all “worked a few extra hours” or “saved some pennies” and “sacrificed” to buy sh*t ground that was worth 1/5 to 1/10 what it is worth now while they pushed “Big Bucks Big Bucks Big Bucks” in the media the last 30 years. Complete BS!! They absolutely took advantage of the entire situation and want us to be the ones stuck holding the bag. A bunch of us have pushed the whole habitat thing and bought and sold ground we have “Improved” in order to make it more marketable. Now we are sitting there and telling people you can’t do what we did?? We reaped every benefit and pocketed every dollar from everybody that gave us money during their advancement in life and now we select few are cutting them off from the whole game. We’ve ran it so high guys with similar jobs/incomes 30 years ago couldn’t even afford a 40 today. Complete garbage. Get to the top and petition government to stop your competition. It’s the oldest trick in the book.

You shouldn't have any problem providing some concrete examples if these old dudes are as rampant as you describe yelling at kids to get off their lawn. Post em up. Let's see it.

 

[JNRBRONC]

As an OLD dude whose eyesight is somewhat diminishing, yet my non-fat fingers can type, I'm hoping to still buy ground. The current prices make me look back to the "glory" days and wish I'd bought more back before everything got run up. So on the topic of affordability, we are on equal footing. Not going to participate in class warfare, though.

 

[booneriverbucks]

As an OLD dude whose eyesight is somewhat diminishing, yet my non-fat fingers can type, I'm hoping to still buy ground. The current prices make me look back to the "glory" days and wish I'd bought more back before everything got run up. So on the topic of affordability, we are on equal footing. Not going to participate in class warfare, though.

Create class warfare and then talk crap about those that bring it up!! Good one!

 

[JNRBRONC]

Create class warfare and then talk crap about those that bring it up!! Good one!

Not sure how I created class warfare?

 

[Windlooker]

Booneriver,

You can always look back and say I should have bought land then or I wish prices were much less. In 2002 when I bought my first piece for 750\ac i didn’t complain about my neighbor who bought a farm for 300/ac in 1992. Last year I bought a piece for 5700/ac, I didn’t call it class warfare because others bought for 3100/ac 5 years before.

I think your arguments are misguided combining supply/demand economics/ capitalism with resource and conservation management. If you want more go make more. It’s America. Many on this site have done just that.

Btw I bought my first piece as a public servant law enforcement officer, married with kids. Figure it out.

 

[booneriverbucks]

Who? Where? Provide some quotes. Cite some examples. Specifics.

You shouldn't have any problem providing some concrete examples if these old dudes are as rampant as you describe yelling at kids to get off their lawn. Post em up. Let's see it.

Honestly could just about throw anybody in this group that had land over 20 years ago. As far as ISC post is concerned Scott Buckley is a picture perfect example. Many many others too!! Start a business elsewhere and move here and buy cheap land, shoot nice deer, tell the world about all your nice deer, gain a little fame and a pat on the back and then tell the future generation one buck is good enough for them unless you own at least 40 acres. Even Skip!! Who I totally have an absolute sh*tload of respect for would probably admit in a weak moment that what he did is not quite as easy to do today. Bill Winke has already freely admitted it is not the same now either. Two guys I absolutely admire. I fully believe and most definitely know neither of them had ABSOLUTELY any advantages in their start! The math is hard to argue tho. We are totally flipping a coin here and one group that was a little older had it WAY better!! If others are as good of guys as Skip is I hope they realize timing was on their side and their fortune was not purely the result of “hard work”. I know you did it and I know skip did it but to put everyone in that class while calling others a bunch of guys that are anti deer and pro ME ME Me and basically selfish a holes is garbage.

 

[booneriverbucks]

Booneriver,

You can always look back and say I should have bought land then or I wish prices were much less. In 2002 when I bought my first piece for 750\ac i didn’t complain about my neighbor who bought a farm for 300/ac in 1992. Last year I bought a piece for 5700/ac, I didn’t call it class warfare because others bought for 3100/ac 5 years before.

I think your arguments are misguided combining supply/demand economics/ capitalism with resource and conservation management. If you want more go make more. It’s America. Many on this site have done just that.

Btw I bought my first piece as a public servant law enforcement officer, married with kids. Figure it out.

Totally agree!!!! 100%%%%%. I have absolutely no problem at all with the $$$ amount!!!!! Anybody with a brain knows the cost goes up. My issue is really only with the people that enjoyed the advantage of LOT tags the whole time they bought and improved parcels the whole way up and now want to cut it off so others can’t do the same thing. They could also recognize that the $$ is also somewhat meaningless.. No matter what they moved up in the world where a LOT got extra privileges by only needing 2 acres to qualify and now that they are well above that threshold they don’t care about any others working their way up through the system! They just keep raising the bar!! It’s not that I don’t expect the younger generation to jump through the same hoops as the previous one. I just think the hoop doesn’t have to be higher! Good post. Thank you.

 

[JBAGS]

Honestly could just about throw anybody in this group that had land over 20 years ago. As far as ISC post is concerned Scott Buckley is a picture perfect example. Many many others too!! Start a business elsewhere and move here and buy cheap land, shoot nice deer, tell the world about all your nice deer, gain a little fame and a pat on the back and then tell the future generation one buck is good enough for them unless you own at least 40 acres. Even Skip!! Who I totally have an absolute sh*tload of respect for would probably admit in a weak moment that what he did is not quite as easy to do today. Bill Winke has already freely admitted it is not the same now either. Two guys I absolutely admire. I fully believe and most definitely know neither of them had ABSOLUTELY any advantages in their start! The math is hard to argue tho. We are totally flipping a coin here and one group that was a little older had it WAY better!! If others are as good of guys as Skip is I hope they realize timing was on their side and their fortune was not purely the result of “hard work”. I know you did it and I know skip did it but to put everyone in that class while calling others a bunch of guys that are anti deer and pro ME ME Me and basically selfish a holes is garbage.

Your points are hard to follow and all over the place what direction you are going with this. I betcha Skip would tell you firsthand, the timing of buying and selling land when he first started up until the most recent price surge the last 5 years was easier than it is "right now". What's the point?
You can pretty much pinpoint that to all real estate other than the crash in 2009-2009