Alfalfa

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - MId October

I don't have an exclusion cage in the Falcata alfalfa and the leaves/stems are very fine so it's difficult to see if deer are grazing it but it looks great so far!

I mixed red clover from nannyslayer in with the Falcata and deer are sure pounding it. It's all the same height so I have to assume they are grazing it fairly evenly.

I'm going to be watching this closely as we progress into colder weather to see if it holds up and deer do in fact feed on it later on.

If it holds up in the brutal winters of Siberia and Wyoming I see no reason why it won't do well here. They tell me that cattle graze it all winter where it's commonly grown. I know that deer feed in my own alfalfa clear in to Febuary so the one cut Falcata hopefully will perform even better.

Right now there are thousands of acres of standing soybeans and corn but every deer I see is feeding in alfalfa fields....... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - Late October

November is days away...there are hundreds if not thousands of acres of standing corn and soybeans surrounding my farm.

I have all types of "candy" plots from oats to clover, rye to brassicas....so what are deer eating at the Doubletree??

Alfalfa...every day, all day I see them chowing down in this stuff....

I can't blame them, it does look pretty tasty!

This link on Timley cutting of alfalfa shows just how high the crude protein level is as noted in this chart.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Cutting Stage Plant Height (in) Crude Protein %

Vegetative 10 33

Pre-bud 16 26

Bud 20 21

1/10 Bloom 24 19

Full Bloom 26 18

Green Pod 27 16

</div></div>

33%...I dare you to find anything that will provide deer with that kind of nutritive value! Only white clover comes close.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alfalfa. A good well-managed stand of <span style="color: #FF0000">alfalfa generally will yield more CP per acre than any other forage</span>. Yield of energy per acre is also high. It is probably the best overall forage available for dairy cows. Alfalfa must be cut at the proper stage of maturity to obtain maximum feeding value. The main disadvantages with alfalfa are the high cost of seed and specific soil drainage and fertility requirements. Alfalfa requires well-drained soils, high soil levels of phosphorus and potassium, and soil pH near neutral (pH 7).

Birdsfoot Trefoil. This legume is very similar in feeding value to alfalfa if managed properly. Birdsfoot trefoil will generally equal or out-yield alfalfa in poorly drained soils in northeastern Ohio, but stands generally will not persist throughout the rest of the state. In well-drained soils alfalfa generally produces about 20% more nutrients per acre than trefoil. Unlike alfalfa, trefoil does not induce bloat, making it useful in pasture situations.

Clovers. This category includes red, alsike, and white clover. Red clover can be used as silage, pasture, or hay. Because of the characteristics of the plant, curing time can be quite long.

Nutritionally it is similar to alfalfa, but generally contains slightly more fiber and slightly less CP as compared to alfalfa at similar maturity. An advantage of red clover over alfalfa is that feeding value decreases slower with advancing maturity.

Generally alfalfa will out-yield red clover in well-drained soil. Costs of establishing a stand of red clover are substantially less than for alfalfa; therefore, red clover may fit better when a short stand life is desirable (e.g., a 3-year crop rotation). White clover can be used as a companion to grass in permanent pastures with alsike favored over white on poorer drained soils. Yields are low compared to alfalfa, but costs are also low. Nutritionally, white and alsike clovers are similar to alfalfa.

</div></div>



Interpreting Forage Analysis

Deer know what they need and they choose alfalfa for a reason and they will keep choosing it well into the new year! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[bowhuntr311]

Re: Alfalfa - Late October

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbltree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I have all types of "candy" plots from oats to clover, rye to brassicas....so what are deer eating at the Doubletree??

Alfalfa...every day, all day I see them chowing down in this stuff....

33%...I dare you to find anything that will provide deer with that kind of nutritive value! Only white clover comes close.
</div></div>

Im not going to argue with that. I hunt 5 different alfalfa(and/or)clover fields. Timely cuttings are so important to fall feeding. My favorite alfalfa patch is 3acres tucked behind a chopped corn field. Outta site of the road, should be great; NOT so much. Farmer cut it late July early August, fertilized again and never cut it again. It almost is ready to be cut again but he wont touch it, he is hoping for it to hold some snow for frost killing prevention.
Another field was cut 3rd week in september. Deer still pounding it and I fully expect them to be till we get snow.

Thanks for the info Dbltree.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - Late November

Every morning, every night as I have traveled to hunt, I pass alfalfa fields full of deer. Untold thousands of acres of corn and soybeans literally everywhere (afterall...this is Iowa! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif )but they choose alfalfa.

I don't think anyone would ever regret setting up a stand on a runway leading to an alfalfa field around here. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Frigid temps to 12 degrees have wilted the clover flat to the ground but not so with my alfalfa!

My first year spring seeded alfalfa doesn't look as pretty but it's still drawing them in.

My new Falcata alfalfa seeding is doing great!

and they are grazing very hard! Notice the red clover seeded with it has wilted to the ground.

The Falcata is a Siberian alfalfa that should last well into winter but it is also a "one cut" alfalfa so it will be much easier to maintain the regular alfalfa.

I'm really excited about it in my high deer density area because they have a hrad time "mowing" to the ground as they do everything else.

For those that have enough acerage to allow a farmer to plant and hay alfalfa, it is a great oppurtunity to take advantage of a fantastic high protien food source and...get paid for it!

Alfalfa ground should rent easily for $80-100 an acre and all kinds of aggreements can be reached for the farmer to plant, fertilize, lime and maintain the alfalfa.

Not only will it cost you nothing, you can have cash income to boot! I don't spray, don't mow, don't do anything but hunt... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

My own renter bore all the costs of putting the seeding in and pays me cash rent as well. I'm telling ya you can't beat that with a stick! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

 

[SaskGuy]

Re: Alfalfa - Late November

HOLY MACKINAW that stuff is still green.

And 100 bucks an acre....Holy Licksplit....around here you can buy it here off of guys for a cent a pound standing.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - Late November

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Saskguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HOLY MACKINAW that stuff is still green.

And 100 bucks an acre....Holy Licksplit....around here you can buy it here off of guys for a cent a pound standing.
</div></div>

Alfalfa hay in small square bales here in Iowa is selling for $3.50 to 5.50 a bale but it is also marketed in the 700# square bales so they can haul it to Texas or Florida where it will bring even more per ton.

Recent Iowa Hay prices

At anywhere from 2-4 tons of alfalfa per acre with much much lower input/production costs then corn your looking at roughly $400-500 an acre.

The average cash rent (per acre) for established alfalfa in Iowa is $144 per acre. (a range of $87-190)

2008 Cash Rental Rates for Iowa

With small hard to get at plots, clover is the best bet but if one has 3 or more acres and a farmer nearby who puts up hay, it's crazy to monkey with mowing, spraying fertilizing, etc. etc. when you can turn all the work over to someone else and then get paid rent on top of it! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

BTW...that alfalfa will be green all winter near the bottom under the snow.... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[nannyslayer]

Re: Alfalfa - Late November

The alfalfa fields where I hunt are still getting pounded by the deer. Most of the corn and beans are out, so they are REALLY pounding it now.

 

[OHIOshedder]

Re: Alfalfa - Late November

Bear with me and allow me to run this scenario past you....

I have a fairly fertile creek bottom strip in SE Indiana measuring about 500'x50' or about 0.6 acres. I did a late summer alfalfa/clover planting 3 years ago. The planting rec'd no real rain until cold weather set in and the little sprouts were hammered with deer and never got much growth before the freeze. The following spring, the grass got a good jump on the alfalfa and I did not spray. I tried cutting to stay ahead of the grass, but we can only cut and not bale, rake, or pickup the cuttings. I think the cut grass helped smother out the plot. In any case, within 2 years, there was little alfalfa and lots of grass.

I'm going to re-do this plot and do whatever it takes to make it great. Current pH is 7.3..not sure if I need add'l lime or how much to add. My main concern is spring-vs- summer planting. I really want to do a spring planting to ensure rain. The past 2 summer/fall periods have been a serious drought. I'm tempted to lime this winter, nuke in spring, then plant alfalfa with oat cover crop. I'm concerned that cutting or spraying the oats in late spring/early summer will smother the young alfalfa. Should I only use the cover crop if it can be baled or raked? On the other hand, maybe I should go back to the late summer planting and pray for rain. If I do the late summer planting with oats, I'm concerned that I'll attract too many deer and the young alfalfa seedlings will get tromped into the ground.

Thanks- This is a great thread!

 

[BOWSTRING]

Re: Alfalfa - Late November

Your Ph is good if not a tad high. I think 7 is nuetral. I don't think you need to lime. Others will have a better idea on though. Have you thought about going with something other than alphla? Not positive but I think that it needs to be cut then baled or something to clean the clippings off. Once again not positive and other will know more than me.

 

[dbltree]

Summer alfalfa seedings should really be in July to give the seeding time to get some decent roots established. Grasses should be killed before hand with Roundup and any grasses that come up post planting can be killed with Select grass herbicide.

You don't need anymore lime if in fact it is as high as you think.

If you want to try a spring seeding, it is possible to control weed without using oats. You can use pre-emergence herbicide such as Treflan and post emergence herbicides such as Select and BUTYRAC 200.

Herbicides of course can be expensive which is normally why we consider summer seedings.

Have you soil tested and applied all the P&K that is required?

Did you use quality alfalfa seed with inoculant?

Did you firm the soil with a packer, then plant and re-pack?

Just looking for other reasons why your seeding failed so we can make sure your next seeding is successful. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

As mentioned perhaps clover might be a more manageable option to consider but that has nothing to do with why your seeding didn't work out.

Here's a list of herbicides to consider if you decide to try a clear spring seeding.

ALFALFA WEED CONTROL SUGGESTIONS

 

[OHIOshedder]

Thanks for the feedback. I did soil test, but did not add P or K. I did use a seed with inoculant. I drug the field to pack and lighly re-drug to cover seed- some seed probably was too deep, but most germinated. I attribute the failed plot to no weed control and overbrowsing and smothering from clippings. Is there a consensus on whether I stand a chance at a decent alfalfa field if I can only mow, but not remove clippings?

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - mid December

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a consensus on whether I stand a chance at a decent alfalfa field if I can only mow, but not remove clippings?
</div></div>

That is tough to deal with and why alfalfa isn't for everyone. You need to mow frequently and not mow too close, but it is a problem that might steer you towards clover which is much lower growing and easier to maintain.

Alfalfa is a no brainer if it can be hayed but otherwise it's not without it's problems... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

This is mid December and deer still feeding in alfalfa....

Some folks say..hey, what is there to eat? Isn't it all brown and dead?

Still nice and green even despite fridgid temps in the single digits...

Kick the snow away and...

This is some of my seedling year Falcata alfalfa...

as well as my Dekalb alfalfa seeding from nanny

compared to clover which is flat and unattractive (at least next to the alfalfa.. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif )

I know it's not really fair to say "give clover a shot" and then show those pics, but white clover planted in conjunction with cereal grains and brassicas can be a viable option without the management headaches of alfalfa when haying is not an option... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[OHIOshedder]

Re: Alfalfa - mid December

I'm going to give it one more shot- this time with better weed control. I think I'll divide the 1/2 acre strip in half and plant 1/4 acre this spring with oats, then plant the other 1/4 acre around August (probably with oats too). I'll get at least 1 great year from this plot. I'm hoping to stage the growth so the deer do my mowing for me ;-) Probably too optimistic, but we'll see. If it fails, I'll go back to brassicas. I planted brassica and turnips in this field 2 years previous and that stuff really flourished in this bottom land soil.

Again, thanks for your input. I'm sure you've done a lot of good helping wanna-be food plot farmers like me from throwing good money at bad farming practices.

 

[hillrunner]

Re: Alfalfa - mid December

Alfalfa may not be practical for everyone but it is by far my favorite food source to hunt. The deer love it year round but they will pound it in herds when the temps plummit. I like to throw a little variety in but alfalfa is the main food source for deer on my ground.

 

[Tim Hull]

Re: Alfalfa - mid December

In muscatine I have at least a dozen deer in the alfalfa field every night. They are hitting that rather than picked corn fields.

 

[lassig]

Re: Alfalfa - mid December

I am looking at adding alfalfa and going to start on a half acre plot and maybe enlarge that later. This half acre will have to be mowed (not big enough or accessable enough for baling). Since it is only a half acre I was leaning towards WI alfa rack. But reading more on the Falcata alfalfa I am starting to considererd this. What really has me interested is the year around grazing and being one cut. With being one cut I assuming that means slower growing and requires less mowing, right?

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - mid December

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With being one cut I assuming that means slower growing and requires less mowing, right? </div></div>

Mine is just going into it's second year so I'll know more next summer, but I believe it doesn't mature and get rank and unpalatable like conventional alfalfa.

This would allow you to not have to repeatedly mow it or perhaps just clip it making it a vastly superior option for smallplots where baling is not an option.

The first year conventional alfalfa is tender and fine and it's hard to compare to the Falcata so time will tell. So far I have no complaints of problems with the Falcata alfalfa. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[lassig]

Re: Alfalfa - mid December

So, I would plant about 7 to 10 pounds for the half acre. Plan on doing this next spring and using an oats cover crop. When should I cut the oats? before it heads out?

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - mid December

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lassig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, I would plant about 7 to 10 pounds for the half acre. Plan on doing this next spring and using an oats cover crop. When should I cut the oats? before it heads out? </div></div>

Check back in this thread but you can let them head out, farmers usually harvest the oats but you can just clip the tops off first.

The standing straw won't hurt anything and then clip it lower next time. You can also kill the oats and grasses with Select herbicide and not clip it until much later in the summer.

The main thing is not to let everything grow real tall and then mow it down close and leave it all there to smother the alfalfa seedlings.

A flail type mower really works better to elimate swathing and smothering in alfalfa.

Flail Mowers

If one of those isn't in your budget (hey...it doesn't hurt to dream... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif ) then just clip frequently rather then "mow" it as we would for hay.

 

[Nontypcl1]

Thinking of planting alfalfa

I have about 1.5-2 acres that I would like to plant in alfalfa. My biggest problem is that I probably won't be able to bail it. I have a farmer friend that lives close by but the access is not the best and I'm not sure if he would want to trouble himself with that small of an area.

That said, worst case scenario is that I won't be able to bail it. It is a well-drained area with a on a gently sloping hill side. The pH was 6.8 when I tested last spring. The area is currently in ryegrain,clover on one half and lablab and sorghum on the other.

I should be able to mow as often as needed and spraying won't be a problem. My biggest worry is that with not bailing it that it will get smothered. I've never grown alfalfa so I'm a little unsure of what i'm getting into.

I guess my question is if I am unable to bail it should I plant alfalfa or start looking at other options?

Also I have a fairly high deer density so is 1.5-2 acres big enough to keep deer from completely demolishing it before it ever has a chance?

Thanks in advance