Brassicas

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - Swedes and Kale

the beans came up as well alot of brassica.

Several people have had brassicas come back up the following year. I assume that means some of it went to seed, something that has never happened for me. They always eat it to the ground before it has a chance...

I checked my kale and swede mix the other day and it seems like growth is a little slow but then again I don't really know how it compares with short season brassicas as far as growth?

Deer are eating it despite the heavy mix of berseem clover, forage oats and AWP's mixed in. 3 out of 5 leaves are gone on this plant

Just like the soybeans I had to get down and look close and sure enough many/most have been "nipped"...

This is some of the Tyfon hybrid brassica in the mix:

Some pics of the whole mix as of 6-28

You can see the berseem clover better here

They certainly aren't lacking for anything to eat with this mix but the thick mix may be inhibiting the brassica growth a little.

but hey...it's got all summer to grow!

You can identify the berseem here by the long narrow clover leaves...great high protein feed and nitrogen producer /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

This is a shot of the Austrian Winter Pea in the mix...

The foxtail hasn't taken off like I expected but if it does I'll hit it with Select. The only component of this mix that Select would kill at this point is the oats and they will soon be mature anyway.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - Swedes and Kale

The foxtail hasn't taken off like I expected but if it does I'll hit it with Select.

One concern about long season brassicas vs short seasons is weeds. Pretty tough to have a "turnip" patch go thru 120 day growing season...weed free.

Surprisinglymost of mine isn't to bad perhaps because I used Dual Magnum 2 last year or because I planted oats and berseem clover with this mix and they are both helpful in suppressing weeds.

Some areas did have a flush of foxtail coming up...

so...you guessed it...

6-8 ounces of Select along with 1% v/v crop oil will nuke the grasses in brassicas including sugar beets just fine. So no worries about grasses in long or short season brassicas!
It's almost mid July,so time to think about ordering seed for those short season brassicas.

Welter's will sell seed by the pound but they have a small handling fee for orders under 25#'s (I believe that is correct if my memory is right...

So splitting orders with friends will make it even more economical.

Welters brassicas

Check back at the beginning of this thread to see what I have tried and pictures of each and how they did. When it comes to seed...I'm like a kid in a candy store!

I want to plant some of everything

Quite honestly though Dwarf Essex Rape and Purple Top Turnips are the least expensive and they literally ate my DER to the ground before anything else(see previous pics)

Maxi-Rack sells seeds by the pound also and although nearly twice as much I may try some just to say I did.

I'm interested in the Graza Radish as well as the other brassicas they offer. Forage radish's can do wonders to break up your clay hard pan while feeding your deer at the same time.

Seedland offers seeds by just about anyone and everyone.

Seed brassicas at 3-6#'s per acre and believe me...a little goes a longgg ways!!

4#'s via Welters will run you roughly 6-10 bucks and you can mix and match what ever varieties you wish. All of which they mow to the ground at my place.

There are the name brand varieties that can run easily 6 times as much...good stuff but not better by any means. always someone trying to tell me otherwise but...boys...I didn't just fall off the turnip truck! (pun intended... )

Osenbaughs can fix you up with WI products like Winter Greens

Other brassica seed sources include

Biologic Maximum

Tecomate NZ Forage Brassica

ShotPlot

Whatever brassicas you plant we'd love to have you share pictures and results via this thread.

Plant anytime from late July to late August and don't forget that you can broadcast turnips into standing corn or beans just before a rain as well.

 

[dbltree]

Turnips, forage rape, forage radish, kale and swedes are all "brassicas"

You could add some brassicas to your fall mix but you only need 3-5#'s per acre so perhaps a pound or two mixed in with the cereal grains for a 1/2 acre.

 

[northwoods whitetails]

i just checked on the bean plot with turnips comming back from last year. beans are doing great, and the turnips are the size of softballs with two months of growing left... some plants started to get a slight yellow tint so i gave them a good dose of nitrogen and sprayed them with post to kill the grass...
i am very interested to see how long i can keep these growing well. first frost should be mid to late september with bow season opening on oct 1.
other hunting plot containing biologic maximum is knee high in some spots (gonna keep feeding that one to)

 

[dbltree]

Can brassicas be planted too early? Will turnips such as up bowhunter's that are so big continue to grow? Or will they be over mature and get "woody" by the time a frost rolls around.

That depends of course on exactly what type have come up in his plot, but yes...they can be planted too early.

Turnips and rape are 60-90 days so if they are planted (or come up on their own)they will mature and "bolt" (go to seed), get woody and all of the things you mention.

If they are long season (120 day) kale and swedes then no, they'll be just right. I have no idea what is in the Biologic mix...could be some of each but who knows? UPB can keep us updated into fall and see how they make out and if deer use them this fall.

 

[northwoods whitetails]

the turnips that are in the plot are just the regular purple top turnip. i'm not sure if they are a 60 or a 90 day type. i did this plot during memorial weekend and the turnips started poping up mid june. last year i tried turnips and sugarbeets in this plot but they turned yellow and wilted in mid summer (lack of proper ferterlizer i assume) redid the plot in biologic full draw for fall 2007. i am thinking that i have turnips growing this year because not all the seed germinated and stayed dormant for a year, and when i tilled the plot this spring, they germinated (is this possible). i will definately keep you guys posted on this, i am interested on how big they will get. the deer are already hitting both the bulbs and the leafs (we are 5 miles from any type of farm, surrounded by cedar swamps, they eat anything !!!)
as far as the biologic maximum mix, it has bioroa rape, a3 rape, mairak rape, and kuro rape. i got the idea of a spring planting form neil and craig dougherty's book: grow 'em right.
the biologic web site confirmed that maiximum can be planted in the spring in northern climates and with proper nutrition (water/fert) will get waist high. i planted mine in late may and some of it is knee high, impressive stuff and the deer like it to.
i'll check back in a week or two, we have some hot weather comming up, should get interesting...

 

[dbltree]

I ordered brassica seed from Welter Seed yesterday along with the smallest amount I could order from the larger "brand" companies so as to compare them all.

Last time I planted small plots of each variety along side the mix and the Dwarf Essex Rape was the first to be literally pounded to the ground! If they eat brassicas at all, they absolutely love DER! It is the least expensive at slightly over a buck a pound. If your on a budget or wondering if they will eat brassicas...try 5#'s of DER. For less the 10 bucks you can plant an acre of it!

I ordered the folowing this year:

Dwarf Essex Rape
Appin Forage Turnip
Bonar Rape
Pasj Hybrid Brassica
Barkant Forgae Turnip

I also ordered from MaxiRack:

Winfred Brassica
Hunter Brassica
Graza Radish

So I'll mark those and see how they compare along side the Welters mix and the seed from the "big shots"

I'll till under some Berseem Clover and add some urea to boot so it ought to do real well if we get any rain.

My plan is to plant next week (last week of July) to give it a 60-90 day growing window.

Here are pics/example of previous varieties I have planted, what they look like and some examples of grazing pressure. Note the DER was grazed very hard right from the get go!
Dwarf Essex Rape

Appin Forage Turnip

Barkant Forage Turnip

Bonar Rape

Pasja Hybrid Brassica

Tyfon Forage Brassica

Purple Top Turnips - remember turnips provide late winter feed via the "root" so early grazing of the tops may not be as notable.

 

[dbltree]

Great post. I will try DER but looks very thick. Can one still add Rye or is that a waste?

I added rye to one patch but the brassicas just completely out did the rye. You can go very light with the brassica seed perhaps 2-3#'s per acre to keep it not so thick.

It is VERY easy to sow brassica seed to thick because it is such fine hard seed. 5# over an acre...you gotta barely open the regulator of what ever your seeding with.

On another note...I ordered from Welters about 3:00 p.m. yesterday and it arrived before noon today! Dang I love that place!!

The "name brand" seed orders all charged me 10-12 bucks shipping and it will take a week to ten days...

Cost more to ship a 1/4 acres worth seed from the big shots then an acres worth of seed from Welters. I combined orders with a couple friends so I had 36#'s basically over night for 15 bucks.

Ok...nuff of that...I'm just from the "old sod" and don't like throwing hard earned money away...

 

[dbltree]

Thanks Dbltree. Where is Welters? I called the elevator near me but didn't get much help. Do you have a # my friend so I can call them?

Click on this link for their online catalog of seeds:
Welter Seed and Honey

Call them at these ph #'s: Toll-free 1-800-728-8450 or 1-800-470-3325 • Fax (563) 485-2764


Welter Seed & Honey Co. - 17724 Hwy. 136 - Onslow, IA 52321-7549
Phone: (563) 485-2762 or (563) 852-3325

I don't have a dime invested in Welters and there are other good sources but for "seeds by the pound" it's hard to beat Welters great service and quality seeds.

 

[dbltree]

My long season brassicas don't seem to be "flourishing" perhaps because I got the berseem clover just a tad to thick...

The berseem is however "flourishing"!!

I clipped the tops off of the clover but I'm not sure it will help. Either way I have some awesome high protein feed.

I took this pics before I clipped it...

Even with all the clover they still have grazed it like it was candy in may spots.

Oh well...I get a kick out of experimenting to see not only what will work but what will work under adverse conditions and extremely high deer density.

A very very light sprinkling of berseem might be alright but to much is just to competitive for the swedes and kale.

Still alot of growing season left so we'll see what if anything is left this fall. I'm pretty sure that if I planted it alone they would have virtually killed it early on.

If not for deer pressure I think managing grasses with Select or all weeds with a pre-emergent like Dual Magnum would do the trick.

The rest of my brassica seed is starting to show up as the MaxiRack seed arrives along with the Biologic Maximum.

I'll post all the varieties eventually in one place but as UPB mentioned the Maximum is primarily forage rapes. Will they out perform Dwarf Essex Rape...only time will tell.

Maximum contains the following:

29.69% Biogroa Rape
24.70% Makiraki Rape
19.70% A3 Rape
14.71% Kurow Rape
9.70% York Globe Turnip

I will mark all of these plots when I plant them next week and hopefully I'll get some exclusion cages up in each one. Be nice to see what it all looks like before they mow it to the ground...

It's easy to be convinced that companies spend bazillions "developing" the very best "scientifically" developed seed "specifically" for deer but in reality they often just choose seeds from large American and New Zealand seed companies who do indeed spend millions developing better forage seeds for livestock producers.

Hey...nuthin wrong with that I guess!

PGG Wrightson Seeds, Crop & Food Research Venture

PGG Seeds

Wrightson Seeds - Forage Focus This link contains a host of great information on growing brassicas including disease problems. (be careful of the "dates" though...we're talking "down under"

Wrightson Seeds - Brassica Varieties

Agriseeds - Brassica Species & Varieties

Specialty Seeds NZ Ltd - Brassica Options

Ampac Seed Company - Brassicas

Barenbrug Forage Brassicas Varieties

 

[Crimson Arrows]

So Sunday I am going to get my alflafa and brassicas in. I have read the entire post 2 times over and just plan on tilling and rolling over it once. The spot the brassicas is going will be planted alone and then frost seeded with red clover in the March.

It is somewhat shaded...would it be better to put another forage here or will brassicas do as well as any other forage in a semi shaded area?

I saw Triple 19 at #300 per acre. Is that a fertilizer and how does it compare to Urea?

Is there ANYTHING a guy can buy at Walmart to help somewhat without spending alot of $ on fertilizer?

Again..thanks Paul for your great posts!

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - Fertilizer

It is somewhat shaded...would it be better to put another forage here or will brassicas do as well as any other forage in a semi shaded area?

I saw Triple 19 at #300 per acre. Is that a fertilizer and how does it compare to Urea?

Is there ANYTHING a guy can buy at Walmart to help somewhat without spending alot of $ on fertilizer?

Brassicas may "survive" but not "thrive" in shaded areas. Shade is always iffy for almost anything but you won't know until you try.

Triple 19 is just a fertilizer combination of NITROGEN, POTASSIUM, AND PHOSPHORUS The "19"just means there is 19#'s in every 100#'s or 19%. There are common fertilizer mixes such as 6-24-24, 12-12-12, 19-19-19 46-0-0 etc. etc.

All the "numbers" tell you is how much of each of the 3 main elements are in a bag of fertilizer. If you buy it in bulk from an ag supply source, they can mix any combination your require. This is why we take soil tests so we know what nutrients our soils may be lacking and what might be required for the crop we'll be growing.

Sometimes you can buy fertilizers on sale at Wal-Mart, Menards, TSC and others...fertilizer is fertilizer as long as you understand what is in it.

DO NOT apply lawn fertilize containing week killers over the top of brassicas...it contains 2-4D and will kill them. Mix it in the soil and it won't be a problem. (cheaper to buy it without weedkiller however...)

Triple 19 is a good all around mix of equal amounts of N-P-K but brassicas prefer plenty of nitrogen so that's where the "300#'s" comes in. Using 300 pounds will give you 57 pounds of each element. You could get away with a 100#'s of 46-0-0 urea which is just nitrogen and does not contain the P and K elements.

at $20-25 a 50# bag, 300#'s could easily run $120-150 per acre which makes 15 bucks worth of red clover seed seem like a pretty darn good deal...huh?

Here are some links to help you understand a little more about fertilizer and what the "numbers" mean.


About Fertilizer

NITROGEN, POTASSIUM, AND PHOSPHORUS

Fertilizer

Nutrient Topics Use the drop window to explore all types of nutrient topics and explore NPK topics including soil testing.

Nutrient Cycling & Maintaining Soil Fertility

Fertility Management in Organic Crop Systems

Nutrient Considerations for Diversified Cropping Systems

Soil Test Interpretation Guide

Soil Fertility Management

Mind Your P's and K's

You Can't Afford Not to Lime

Brassicas for Forage-Brassica species for forage include
rape, kale, swedes and turnips. Brassicas can be used to
break up an old pasture to be planted with an improved
species and/or to extend the grazing period into the late
fall. They are frequently planted after small grains have
been harvested. A total of 75 pounds of nitrogen is
suggested to produce good yields. Follow the
recommendations in ( P & K Recommendations ) for phosphate and potash.
Apply up to 30 pounds of nitrogen, 50 pounds of phosphate
and 50 pounds of potash in the row at planting.
Additional fertilizer should be broadcast and
incorporated before planting.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - Fertilizer

i noticed that in one of your pics that some of the leafs on your brassicas were turning yellow and purple. is this due to lack of nitrogen? if not, do you know the cause of the discoloration??

More likely a lack of sunlight!

The berseem clover is just way to thick.

The Tyfon has a good dark green color so I actually think the the kale and swedes have a light green coloration.

The older pics include Purple Top turnips that naturally turn shades of purple. I had 500#'s of triple 19 per acre on that ground so they weren't lacking anything.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - Fertilizer

I received my Tecomate seed and it says Hybrid Rape/Turnip Yields both Forage and edible bulb but reading this description from another source it says this:

T-Raptor Forage Brassica from Barenbrug
This is a hybrid brassica that looks like a turnip without the bulb. It is the best brassica for multiple grazings and is the fastest brassica to be ready to be grazed (10 days earlier than the quickest turnips and rapes). Capable of 3 plus high yield grazings. Also T-Raptor is better adapted to mixing with sorghum sudangrass than turnips.

Anyway..the Tecomate Ultra Forage Mix contains the following:

49.97% T-Raptor Rape
14.73% Arrowleaf Clover
9.96% Lacerta Chicory
9.90% Mammouth Red Clover
9.88% Forage Feast Chicory

I'm really only interested in the brassica portion, since this is an annual plot the chicory seed seems like a waste.

I'm interested in seeing how the clover fares with such a competitive brassica as T-Raptor?

I'm not big on mixing brassicas and clover but Big Mammouth I would consider a plowdown type of red clover so it won't hurt anything.

Here are other sources for just T-Raptor Rape Seed

Best Forage

Fowler Seed

If it ever stops raining I'll plant my brassicas this week...too much rain is hardly the norm for late July!

 

[bowhuntr311]

Re: Brassicas - Fertilizer

If a person wants to plant brassicas and cereal grains in the same plot. How should a person go about it. I know brassicas should be planted here anytime. But most of WW/Rye/Oats should be planted in a few weeks yet?

My rye is head high and ripe. I figured another week and the seeds will really fall well if I mow them. I figured I would mow, disc as lightly as possible, then cover it with a heavy oats covering. Hopefully get some rye to back up with the oats. I would love to throw in turnips/rape seed for some real late season feed?

Dean

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - Fertilizer

That will work...I've done it before myself (disc down mature rye) but I would hold off another week or two if possible.

Kind of early to plant grains if you want tender feed in October.

If you add brassicas...one or the other may dominate depending on which is thicker. I've seen forage rape completely smother out winter wheat and I've had rye smother out brassicas but so far I haven't really seen a great plot of both.

I like to manage them separately because that works into my clover/grains & red clover/brassica rotations.

If you do plant your plot as you mentioned, please share some pics with us and let us know how it works out.

 

[bowhuntr311]

Re: Brassicas - Fertilizer

Dbltree thanks for the answers.
I was more wondering about the time situation. Im another 8hours north of you. I expect my first frost by atleast the 3rd week in Sept. Is 30days enough for brassicas. I know they can take some cold weather and still grow, but I was worried about them freezing off and going dormant and only having quater sized leaves. Not really worth the money if the leaves will only get the size of a quater.

What will happen if they get planted to late? Any idea what most rape seed needs to mature? Turnips are 12-14weeks.

Dean

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - Fertilizer

I planted some brassicas with rye about Labor Day weekend a few years ago and our avg. frost date isn't until mid October and often later.

The brassicas sprouted but never took off by cold weather versus those planted in July a few feet away.

I would think that yours would have time planted right now but waiting until the proper time to plant cereal grains I'm guessing would be a waste of "seed money"

dbltree,

Could you further describe your clover/grains and red clover/brassicas rotation? Thanks

I plant brassicas in mid July and then I plant a winter rye/oats/forage pea/forage radish and red clover strip or block in August. In the spring I till under the spent brassicas and plant oats and berseem and rotate that to the rye combination and in July I till under the red clover that was planted with rye the fall before and plant brassicas...

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - August 1st Planting

Over the past few days I've tilled down some beautiful red clover and berseem clover and planted my short season brassicas..

I had clipped this so that it wouldn't be too tall for my tiller to handle.

Like tilling down free fertilizer!

Took several passes to get it tilled down

and get the clover chopped up and stirred in

I had clipped off the oats which shattered seed all over so no doubt some will sprout

The clover will, as it slowly breaks down, provide at least a portion of the brassicas nitrogen requirements.

I planted two different plots on different farms and used triple 13 on one plot and only the clover on the other. I would have prefered 46% urea but none was available in bags so I picked up this instead.

Triple 13 was 20 bucks a bag

100#'s = 13#'s each of NPK per acre, so I put on enough to = about 40#'s of actual per acre along with the tilled under clover

Spread fertilizer

Eventually I ended up with this...

Remember brassica seed is tiny and is seeded at 4-6#'s per acre so set your seeder or drill at the smallest setting, just like seeding white clover seed.

I planted from Welter Seed roughly equal amounts of each at 5#'s per acre.

Dwarf Essex Rape
Appin Forage Turnip
Bonar Rape
Pasj Hybrid Brassica
Barkant Forage Turnip

From MAXI-RACK :

Winfred Brassica
Hunter Brassica
Graza Radish

From Tecomate Ultra Forage

49.97% T-Raptor Rape
14.73% Arrowleaf Clover
9.96% Lacerta Chicory
9.90% Mammouth Red Clover
9.88% Forage Feast Chicory

From Biologic Maximum

29.69% Biogroa Rape
24.70% Makiraki Rape
19.70% A3 Rape
14.71% Kurow Rape
9.70% York Globe Turnip

I intended to plant WI Wintergreens Brassica mix but it's been two weeks and still no seed. I will plant eventually as well

I marked the different plots

After tilling and broadcasting the very tiny seeds I ran the cultipacker over it to cover it

This is a pic after packing...the packer "wheels" firm the soil but don't really pack it as the weight of the packer is carried by the narrow part of the wheel.

If you don't have a cultipacker...put in your wish list! A very handy tool for sure.

The soil was barely dry enough to till but I gave it time to dry out bewteen passes, so there is soil moisture there. We have some hot dry weather ahead so hopefully we'll get a nice shower this next week to get things growing.

Eventually we'll be able to compare these brassica seeds planted on two different farms mile apart so completely different deer are feeding on them.

In the past one place was mowed to the ground while the other was untouched until all other feed was gone late in the year.

Will one seed out perform the other? Will deer prefer one over another? Will seed developed for grazing livestock be less preferred then one supposedly "engineered" for deer?

Stay tuned...were gonna find out!

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Re: Brassicas - August 1st Planting

I noticed the "chewed" up clover and oats doesn't leave a perfectly clean bed which after seeing your plots must be ok then? This is what mine looked like after tilling the clover last week before the alfalfa planting and I was curious if it would be a problem.

We also have a straight cylinder roller..not cultipacker..just a big large cylinder! Will this firm the seed bed too much or is it OK? Thats all I've got at this point.